1979-ish web site?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by joseph white, Dec 3, 2004.

  1. joseph white

    joseph white Guest

    My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.

    My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?

    My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .
    joseph white, Dec 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. joseph white

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in alt.html, joseph white <> said:

    > My son is a professional computer program.


    Hmmm. Interesting.

    > I was one too until I
    > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.


    That'd be because they didn't exist[1].

    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .


    No offence, but 1997 is being generous. It's awful. And I didn't even
    look at the code.

    [1] Well, depending on your definition of the Internet, it did exist,
    but certainly not in the form we know it today. HTML also did not exist,
    though its "parent" language, SGML, did.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, Dec 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. joseph white

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:38:55 -0600, joseph white <>
    wrote:

    > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.
    >
    > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    > was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    > newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    >
    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .


    Ok, think of me as the Carson Kressley of web critique, except I'm not gay.

    First thing: No frames. Ever.

    Drinking birds? What were YOU drinking? Make a promise to me - no animated
    GIFs.

    "Webmaster views this site at 1280x1024 resolution with 16 bit color. It
    looks okay to him. It should look okay at other resolutions too. If not,
    drop me a comment about here and I'll try fixing it. He does suggest
    viewing this site in a maximized window."

    Boy, contempt is so attractive. This is ridiculous. Listen - the main
    featore of the WWW is that the user can alter what is rendered to their
    needs. If the text needs a larger size, done. The browser/screen is at a
    different size, no problem.

    This is awful. Throw it out the window.

    Firat, let me tell you about validation. It's a way to check that your
    code is in line with the specs. First you need a doctype. I'm aiming high
    for you, I want you to use this doctype:

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

    Then go to http://www.w3schools.com and learn about HTML the right way. We
    use it semantically now. If it's a heading, it's a heading. If it's a
    paragraph, it's a paragraph.

    Validate your new document (don't waste another second on this) at:

    http://validator.w3.org/

    and if you don't understand an error, ask.

    Here's your homework. Forget about frames, scripts, even tables, even
    IMAGES. Design a site with none of that. Just basic HTML. Validate it. Now
    study CSS at the w3schools link and do all the stuff you want. Post it to
    alt.html.critique and say Neal said to go easy on you.
    Neal, Dec 3, 2004
    #3
  4. joseph white

    Neal Guest

    On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 22:10:17 -0500, Neal <> wrote:

    > Here's your homework.


    Oh, one more assignment.

    See the list at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html ? These
    guys are the authority on HTML, truly. Look at this list. If it's marked
    wih a D, L or F, it's not for you. Stick to markup with no D, L or F. (F
    in the third "end tag" column is OK. I'm focusing on columns 5 and 6.)

    This is your diet. This is all you will eat. And avoid b, i, anything
    dealing with image maps or tables (unless you really have a table of
    data), and a bunch of other stuff. Wish I had a better list...

    Basically, stick to:

    headings
    paragraphs
    lists
    forms
    div and span (but know the difference)
    anchors (<a>)

    And that's it. It's like the South Beach diet, after a few weeks we add in
    some other markup.

    I'm dead serious. This is what you need.
    Neal, Dec 3, 2004
    #4
  5. On 12/2/04 9:38 PM, in article ,
    "joseph white" <> wrote:

    > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.
    >
    > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    > was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    > newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    >
    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .


    Without content that's unique, visitors have no reason to visit. You
    yourself state that the site is for your friends and family. Most search
    engines don't give a hoot about personal free hosted websites. If you want
    to get into the search engines to attract visitors, get a domain and content
    worth indexing.

    Keep working on it. Study what you like about other websites and what you
    dislike. Ask yourself if your grandmother could navigate the site easily or
    if she could read that text against that background.

    All websites are a work in progress. No need to tell your visitors, they
    know.

    Third person narrative is awkward. It's a personal site. Loosen up and write
    like you talk.
    That should be enough to get you started.
    --
    Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino
    Cartoons with a Touch of Magic
    http://www.wizardofdraws.com
    http://www.cartoonclipart.com

    The Wizard's 2004 Christmas newsletter
    http://www.wizardofdraws.com/main/xmas04.html
    Wizard of Draws, Dec 3, 2004
    #5
  6. joseph white

    rf Guest

    joseph white wrote:

    > My son is a professional computer program.


    If he is your son then surely he is a sub-program.

    > Do you agree with his critique?


    Yes.

    Not much needs changing. Remove the flashing stuff and the background.
    Remove the popups. Make it work in modern browsers (the photos don't). Tart
    up the graphics. That sort of thing.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 3, 2004
    #6
  7. joseph white

    Neal Guest

    rf
    > Not much needs changing. Remove the flashing stuff and the background.
    > Remove the popups. Make it work in modern browsers (the photos don't).
    > Tart up the graphics. That sort of thing.


    So you're cool with the frameset?
    Neal, Dec 3, 2004
    #7
  8. joseph white

    rf Guest

    Neal wrote:
    > rf
    > > Not much needs changing. Remove the flashing stuff and the background.
    > > Remove the popups. Make it work in modern browsers (the photos don't).
    > > Tart up the graphics. That sort of thing.

    >
    > So you're cool with the frameset?


    <sigh/> I didn't even *see* the frameset.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 3, 2004
    #8
  9. joseph white

    Fernie Guest

    I liked the layout of your contact form:

    http://s107883475.onlinehome.us/tinc?key=hGK3cjOx

    I can live with my bland forms but I'd like to know how the 'Your comments:'
    text is made to align up top with the muli line control. On my forms, the
    text is centered vertically on the cell and it looks terrible.

    Thanks,

    Fernie



    --

    ELKNews FREE Edition - Empower your News Reader! http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Fernie, Dec 3, 2004
    #9
  10. On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:38:55 -0600, joseph white wrote:

    > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I retired
    > in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself, I'll build a
    > personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had never heard of HTML
    > or the Internet before retiring.
    >
    > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply was,
    > "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a newer
    > look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    >
    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .


    Howdy. I think your site is fine for what it is supposed to be -- a
    personal home page. really I do. But I will share with you some tidbits
    that you may find useful.

    First of all, don't take any critcism here too harshly. Sometimes the
    geeks in this group lose sight of the big picture. Also, just don't take
    anything too harshly -- none of the criticism is meant personally.

    Things that (I think) are bad with your site:
    1) Animated GIFs. lose them. they are annoying little cutey clutterances
    that do nothing to improve upon the site. any site. they were neat-o in
    195 or so and that is why your site has the retro look

    2) bug-out background pattern. Lose it. Using a tiled image for a
    background is not generally a good idea -- it makes things hard to read
    and increases the size of your site to download without increasing the
    usefulness. Background images can be used well, but your case is a bit
    mis-applied.

    3) Frames. Not generally a good idea. They break navigation and
    book-mark-ability of a site. They do not work as well as they were
    intended. They are one technology that has turned out to be a mistake.
    That said, frams are useful for things like navigation menus. However,
    there are better ways to address issues that frames are meant to address.

    The notes about your viewing resoluton and bit depth and other stuff
    are nice, but really unnecessary. A site visitor shouldn't need to worry
    about that sort of thing. It distracts from the main point of the site,
    which, in your case, is to show off the things you love.

    Other little details...

    Consider using a tool to generate and maintain a photo gallery rather
    than the by-hand method you appear to be using. JAlbum or Gallery come to
    mind as free examples

    http://jalbum.net
    http://gallery.menalto.com/

    Links on your link pages should really include the text -- not just the
    "Go" image. Meaning you should be able to click on the text as well.

    Other stuff, but that's more than enough for now....

    later. have fun.

    --
    Jeffrey Silverman

    ** Drop "PANTS" to reply by email.
    Jeffrey Silverman, Dec 3, 2004
    #10
  11. joseph white

    Richard Guest

    "joseph white" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.
    >
    > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    > was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    > newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    >
    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .


    When you retired, the internet was just beginning.
    It never really blossomed until 1995 or so.
    Back then, websites were basic, ordinary stuff.
    Yours would have rocked the cradle then.
    But come on. Front page? Really. Front page sucks.
    Ok. Maybe not front page but sure looks it.
    Frames suck.
    Your next step is to learn CSS and do it all in divisions.
    There are ways with CSS to do the same thing, but clean it up royally.
    Even your photo section would do better in CSS.

    Go visit a few dozen free web template sites and take a look at what they
    have to offer.
    I'm sure you'll get a few dozen ideas for a better rocking site.

    Oh and content?
    With the photos and links you have to offer, don't expect to become a world
    wide power monger just yet.
    You want hits? You want visitors?
    Include the two magic words any where in your site.
    "Child pornography".
    Guaranteed visitors.
    Richard, Dec 3, 2004
    #11
  12. joseph white

    Richard Guest

    "Mark Parnell" <> wrote in message
    news:1pj9svdmwumyb$...
    > Previously in alt.html, joseph white <> said:
    >
    > > My son is a professional computer program.

    >
    > Hmmm. Interesting.
    >
    > > I was one too until I
    > > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.

    >
    > That'd be because they didn't exist[1].
    >
    > > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .

    >
    > No offence, but 1997 is being generous. It's awful. And I didn't even
    > look at the code.
    >
    > [1] Well, depending on your definition of the Internet, it did exist,
    > but certainly not in the form we know it today. HTML also did not exist,
    > though its "parent" language, SGML, did.
    >


    But you got to give the man some credit here.
    After all, go to the archiving site and look up microsoft's first offering.
    I mean really. You'll be choking for sure. I mean that poor puppy just
    sucked rotten.

    FYI, the internet, as we know it today, may have been officially launched in
    1985.
    As the first dot com domain name was registered.
    "Genie", an offering of those famous tax people, was probably the first ISP.
    Then along came Prodigy and, yuck, AOL.
    Richard, Dec 3, 2004
    #12
  13. joseph white

    WindAndWaves Guest

    "joseph white" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.
    >
    > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    > was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    > newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    >
    > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .



    My five cents worth:

    Just type the text that you want to put on your website (nothing else),
    using only <BR> (line break) and <P> </P> (start and end of a paragraph)

    Once you have done this, add <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>xxx</TITLE></HEAD><BODY>

    .... add your text here ....


    </BODY></HTML>

    strictly speaking this is not correct, but you be amazed how good it will
    look (I.E. SIMPLE).

    Then you can add images (only the ones that are absolutely necessary), the
    odd bold text and perhaps a bit of colour (sparingly).

    Then, if you really want to go mad, you can something like this in the
    header of your page

    <STYLE>
    BODY {background-color: white;}
    P {font-size: 17px; color: #555555;}
    </STYLE>

    HTML and the web is all about taking things away, getting rid of superfluous
    garbage, rather than creating it.

    - Nicolaas
    WindAndWaves, Dec 3, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <6AADA4EC7CB6E240Fernie@not_thisDocSignings.net>,
    Fernie@not_thisDocSignings.net says...
    > I liked the layout of your contact form:
    >
    > http://s107883475.onlinehome.us/tinc?key=hGK3cjOx
    >
    > I can live with my bland forms but I'd like to know how the 'Your comments:'
    > text is made to align up top with the muli line control. On my forms, the
    > text is centered vertically on the cell and it looks terrible.


    For starters, quote properly. Secondly, viewing the source code would
    have given you the answer quite quickly.

    --
    Hywel
    Hywel Jenkins, Dec 3, 2004
    #14
  15. In article <>, Anonymous@127.001 says...
    >
    > "joseph white" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > My son is a professional computer program. I was one too until I
    > > retired in 1986. My hobby is PC's and the web. I thought to myself,
    > > I'll build a personal web site" , quite a feat for me since I had
    > > never heard of HTML or the Internet before retiring.
    > >
    > > My many international pen pals visit my web site to see any of my new
    > > photos or links there, but I rarely get any other visitors. I asked my
    > > son, "Why, do you suppose my web site has so few visitors?" His reply
    > > was, "Dad, your web site looks 1997-ish" You need to rebuild it with a
    > > newer look and beef up it's content". To me, 1997 is quite modern, but
    > > antiquated to many web users. Do you agree with his critique?
    > >
    > > My web site is at http://www.jm000.cjb.net .

    > But come on. Front page? Really. Front page sucks.


    Rubbish. A decent developer can turn out code that's as good as another
    developer can turn out with [insert text editor here].

    Hywel
    Hywel Jenkins, Dec 3, 2004
    #15
  16. joseph white wrote:

    > My son is a professional computer program.


    I...I...uh...oh, never mind.

    (I'm also having trouble picturing what a 1979-ish website would've
    looked like.)

    I'm tired, tonight, and I needed a lift. Thanks, Joseph. :)

    --
    Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
    Play Zork: http://www.xs4all.nl/~pot/infocom/zork1.html
    SOME commands: get, open, drop, directions e/n/s/w, climb, up,
    down, look, read, inventory, hit/kill [object] with [object]...
    Blinky the Shark, Dec 3, 2004
    #16
  17. joseph white

    Fernie Guest

    "Hywel Jenkins" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <6AADA4EC7CB6E240Fernie@not_thisDocSignings.net>,
    > Fernie@not_thisDocSignings.net says...
    >> I liked the layout of your contact form:
    >>
    >> http://s107883475.onlinehome.us/tinc?key=hGK3cjOx
    >>
    >> I can live with my bland forms but I'd like to know how the 'Your
    >> comments:'
    >> text is made to align up top with the muli line control. On my forms,
    >> the
    >> text is centered vertically on the cell and it looks terrible.

    >
    > For starters, quote properly. Secondly, viewing the source code would
    > have given you the answer quite quickly.
    >
    > --
    > Hywel


    You're right, that was pretty easy. Can an editor be used to create a form
    with columns that vary like Johns or would it have to be hand written? I'm
    pretty new with html editors and I could not find anything obvious for
    specifying column variation as in that contact form.

    Thanks




    --

    ELKNews FREE Edition - Empower your News Reader! http://www.atozedsoftware.com
    Fernie, Dec 3, 2004
    #17
  18. On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 22:48:56 -0500, Wizard of Draws
    <> wrote:

    > Most search
    > engines don't give a hoot about personal free hosted websites. If you
    > want
    > to get into the search engines to attract visitors, get a domain and
    > content
    > worth indexing.


    I never found having content at a free host and not at a domain a problem
    for search engines. They index my pages just fine. But that is because
    they provide content.

    Content is the keyword. If you have content that might be of interest to
    others, your personal pages will start showing up in SERP's at nice
    positions, regardless of the host.

    --
    Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    Barbara de Zoete, Dec 3, 2004
    #18
  19. joseph white

    Spartanicus Guest

    Neal <> wrote:

    >"Webmaster views this site at 1280x1024 resolution with 16 bit color.


    Screen Area, resolution is a fixed physical property of the display,
    typically expressed in PPI.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 3, 2004
    #19
  20. joseph white

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Jeffrey Silverman wrote:
    > Howdy. I think your site is fine for what it is supposed to be -- a
    > personal home page. really I do. But I will share with you some tidbits
    > that you may find useful.


    Are you kidding? So his web site is supposed to make him look like he
    has no clue what he's doing... in that case it works perfectly :)

    GOd, though, I do remember my first web pages back in... hmmm... 1994.
    *shame faced*


    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
    SpaceGirl, Dec 3, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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