1979-ish web site?

J

joseph white

Her point is that this
website doesn't put off the appearance that you're particularly skilled.
That happens to be true, I'm afraid.

You know what I know too, I am not particularly skilled, but I have
learned other things are more important and that being skilled once in
a lifetime is sufficient for me. I do not mean to imply that I could
become skilled at web development if I wished. My ability to become
skilled long ago abandoned me.
 
J

joseph white

Front page?

Richard, in spite of your awe-inspiring expertise, my web site and
FrontPage or any other HTML writer never met. My web site is solely
built with (lame) HTML written by my hands alone.
 
C

C.W.

God, I guess my career lacked a key component - smugness.

I doubt it. ;) [1]

Carol
[1] given how many others were decreed, by one person, to be sharing
'smugness' in this one thread.
 
C

C.W.

You know what I know too, I am not particularly skilled, but I have
learned other things are more important and that being skilled once in
a lifetime is sufficient for me. I do not mean to imply that I could
become skilled at web development if I wished. My ability to become
skilled long ago abandoned me.

I don't think anyone in this gorup is expecting you to try to become
skilled at web development. Your site was created for your own
enjoyment and for some of your family or friends to enjoy visiting
also. So you can continue with the "I am doing this for my own
enjoyment" thought while bettering the site if you wish to do so or
not.

But in your first post you also inquired why you didn't receive a lot
of other visitors to your site outside of family or friends and part
of the reason may be due to that, to others, it appears to be a
personal site aimed at a small circle of family or friends.

You will have to get the contents to where other people will be
wanting to share a link your way as that will help on sending a little
more traffic your way while helping in the search engines also to try
to get some traffic from that venue also. Various ways you can present
content that would have other people considering sharing a link your
way if coming across your site. Let your imagination go!

Just keep on having fun working on the site. And consider any
suggestions you have received from others - including your son -
about it.

Carol
 
P

Peter

joseph said:
The ancient Greeks had a concept, "hubris". It's is best translated
into English today as "excessive pride" or "smugness". I see that
trait still thrives three centuries later.
centuries?
:)
 
B

Blinky the Shark

That site comes out completely blank for me now in Mozilla.

Same here in Moz, Firefox, Opera, Konqueror, Dillo, Links and
lynx.

Firefox throws a popup warning; even if I okay it, I get the same
nothing. It's shown in the dialog box as a pop-under from
windupdates.com, but the tab in which it tried to open shows
a progress indicator for a couple of seconds, then closes itself.
Source for joseph's page itself is one line of script.
 
S

SpaceGirl

joseph said:
SpaceGirl, when I was so successful at computer programming, my reward
was a promotion into a position which I had no knack for - managing
other computer programmers. In many cases, I fired programmers that
we're a lot brighter and a lot less smug than you.

Okay. Perhaps I deserved that!
In that era, I would "burn out" on a job about every three years, so
would always resign after three years on a Monday so I would have
another job by week's end paying more and not have a weekend worrying
about being unemployed.. Try that today, champ!

I know... things are messy these days.
I did make a fine living as a professional programmer though, and
supported a family with my efforts probably before you were even
conceived. You too, will someday find intellectual tasks which are now
trivial to you will become very difficult. For example, I possess an
old book in German about partial differential equations I used for my
math thesis, but can't even read it now. I admit that my attempts at
writing some HTML today aren't nearly equal to my facilities once at
IBM370 assembler language, but I was never as smug as you are!

I'm currently learning Japanese... and Java... and Turkish. All at once.
There's nothing trivial about any of them :( I also imagine it wouldn't
take too many months away from JavaScript for me to forget it all... I
have NO head for programming AT ALL.
Since you're so smug, your accomplishments surely eclipse mine.

Hey... I was only kidding. Gawd. We all have to start somewhere!

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
 
S

SpaceGirl

Neal said:
joseph white:



"I was serving on starships while you were in DIAPERS!" - Montgomery Scott

She wasn't really being smug on purpose, I believe. Her point is that
this website doesn't put off the appearance that you're particularly
skilled. That happens to be true, I'm afraid.

Uh huh :/
I won't presume to know what's best, but there are arguments to both
opinions. SpaceGirl was merely pointing out the contrasting opinion to
"it's ok, it's just a personal site and you needn't worry about it".
yes

I don't think her statement was intended to slight you, your
accomplishments, or to even address your current ability to do computer
tasks (!). It was addressed at the product, and this is normal procedure
here. A flaw in the product is not necessarily a flaw in the producer -
though many will indeed assume this is so even when it is not. That's
why we generally work toward eliminating these niggling problems in the
product, and therefore we do not confuse comments on the work as
applicable to the person behind the work.

However, I don't presume to speak for her, but merely my reaction to her
post. She will certainly correct me if I'm incorrect.

Yeha.

But anyway, I dont want to piss him off. Web design is a messy thing.
The problem is that programmers who decide to "design a website" utterly
forget one major part of the process... the DESIGN. Web sites are as
much about GOOD DESIGN as technical prowess. You might be able to churn
out fantastic server side code, be an inspired Java script programmer
and know HTML like the back of your hand - but if you have no spark of
design sense, it's wasted. Web Design is about communication of
information, emotion and ideas. That's it. The technical stuff will
always be second to that.


--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
 
J

Jeffrey Silverman

It has nothing at all to do with geography. Wisdom coming with age is a
myth older persons foist on the youth.

If anything is true, it's the opposite.

Hey, Joe. I read some of your responses to other people's posts. In my
first response to you I said "don't take anything to personally" or
something to that effect. And it is because I knew from prior experience
that some people here would trash your site because, from a professional
web design perspective, your site sucks. HOWEVER, from a first-time web
design of a personal home page, I frankly think your site is pretty good.
The problem is that some of the responders in this newsgroup sometimes
forget that not everyone wants to be a professional web designer. And
maybe they watched one too many episodes of "The Apprentice" as well (at
least maybe that's where the "you're fired!" harsh and rude attitude
comes from).

In any case, your best bet BY FAR is to completely ignore any response you
don't like. As in do NOT respond. These people are not trying to be your
friends, although they will be if you let them. And, unfortunately, the
opposite is also true -- they will become your, well, not exactly
*enemies* but at least people who don't like you and then put you in
killfiles and ignore you and mark you as a troll and then you will never
get anything useful in terms of responses in this newsgroup.

Allright, that's enough for now. later...
 
J

Jeffrey Silverman

God, I guess my career lacked a key component - smugness.

Jeez, Joe, did you type this out once in notepad and cut-n-paste it
everywhere? I do feel like you are missing the point of this newsgroup.
No one here is really being so smug. It is just that everyone answers in
a very direct, to-the-point style. Do you want people to kiss your ass in
an answer or do you want an answer? You can't have both, at least not here.
 
S

SpaceGirl

Liz said:
In message <[email protected]>



In that case, don't you get a site like the w3c's?

Liz

Sometimes. Bear in mind the W3C's audience is pretty much only techie,
so "prettiness" isn't high on the list of requirements. Functionality is
very important - it is a reference site after all. But even then, the
design is very important - the flow of information, what goes where etc etc.

Take a look at www.mtv.co.uk. Technically it's not a very good site at
all. But visually, it's quite nice. The information is chopped up in
MTV-bite sized chunks with pretty colours and striking images. Perfect
for its audience. Apply a W3C.org style design to it and it would be a
disaster.

Does it matter that the MTV site has shitty markup? Not in the least.
Who cares? Certainly not the people who visit the site.

While getting a site technically RIGHT is something you should try and
do (at the very least to help ease cross-browser problems), in reality
it's NOT actually that important if your site is NOT long-term. MTV
change their site once a year. Who cares if future browsers may choke on
the current one...

Now take a look at a site like www.tokidoki.it - totally gorgeous site,
but useless if you dont have Flash. Beautiful, attractive design. Is
there anything wrong with it technically? Not really... it is just a
Flash movie delivered over WWW. Very much a case of the design IS
(essentially) the content.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
 
C

C.W.

Sometimes. Bear in mind the W3C's audience is pretty much only techie,

I will bite the "playing Devil's Advocate" bait - and say I disagree
with that thought. Although W3C is often seen as an URL recommended in
tech-thought forums or discussions to others - it is also recommended
to a broad range of people. Susie Housewife wanting to create a site
on up to Jill Designer. And yes, I have seen W3C's URL shared with
people expressing an interest in learning even a small bit of HTML in
places where the techie-dominance thought, in terms of people sharing
the URL or inquiring about HTML, was extremely low.

W3C's contents are also more flexible than the other sites mentioned.
One can take the W3C's pages and put it into a different layout and
create nifty/cool images for it and viola - fresh appearance, more
colorful and vibrant perhaps ... but doesn't affect the value of the
contents either - so remains a reource site for people of all levels.
Not limited to just "techie people" being interested in that content -
even if it is written a bit dry.

The other sites have decided to handle the delivery-style of their
content differently - which in turn can make it a bit more limiting in
HOW that content is shared and what kind ofsite design thoughts would
help have that content be "appealing". This is without factoring the
"targetted audience"'s perceived 'expectations' on what is a 'cool
looking site' thoughts. So I agree that MTV cannot adopt W3C's current
appearance.

A site targetted to children under the age of 10 will present contents
and have a different design thought for those contents than, say, a
site targetted to parents of children under the age or 10, someone
seeking information about a recent Britney Spears video, or someone
seeking information about how to use HTML. [Which design thoughts
doesn't really have anything to do with failure to share valid markup
to begin with *shrug*]

My sites' contents would probably suck in a layout similar to MTV's -
my contents aren't that flexible to be presented in the same manner
though either. Doesn't lower the value of my contents - just that the
layout/design didn't match what I was offering people. Likewise I
don't think W3C would consider trying to replicate MTV's design for
their contents.

W3C inspires people other ways - through the information shared. W3C
isn't meant to be inspiring people's eyes "hey - this is a cool
looking site" - so unlikely that many people would be asking "how can
I copy their design ..." whereas some people, whose site's contents
may not be of similar favor of MTV's offerings, may ask "How can I
replicate that design ..." based on visual appearance alone.

In terms of "who cares" - I doubt MTV's CEO or higher ups sat down and
designed the site but hired/paid someone else to do ... so thinking,
due to paying, that the person knows what they are doing beyond
slapping up some nifty graphics into a layout or had a nifty roll-over
effect on the menu.

The MTV folks may not have run the pages through a validator before
paying or uploading either. The site designer is probably the one who
should've cared but already guessed they could slide on things as long
as the finished product just "looked nifty" to the client's eyes ...

Which only has other people inspired, inadvertantly, into thinking
"why should I care if my site isn't using valid markup and sites X Y
and Z [& the person who created those sites] don't seem to care ..."

And. as the carny folks would say, "and around around it goes ..."

Carol
 
M

Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html said:
No offence, but I'll wager that if one looked up "hubris" or "asshole"
in a dictionary, your photo would be there as an illustration.

Hmmm. There go any chances you might have had at actually getting help
here. You asked for opinions, you got them. If you can't handle that,
why'd you ask in the first place.

HAND
 
M

Mark Parnell

Previously in alt.html said:
Well, you can change your screen or the number of pixels on your screen.

Why? I already have it set up the way I want it.
Did you know that all the message in Windows are about font-size 10px?

By default, yes.
Unless you change the size of your screen.

Or the font sizes in the display settings.
It is funny, because a lot of people complain when your website fonts go
below 12pt, while all window message boxes are in 8pt and people do not seem
to care too much about that.

I have changed mine. And reading a short message in a small font is very
different to reading a whole web page.
I reckon that if you have bad eyesight it is easiest to increase the size of
your monitor

Not at work it isn't. Even at home that would require money (and more
space on the desk).
(or decrease the area shown), rather than trying to influence
the look of websites. Many sites actually use images with 8pt fonts,

Using images in place of text is rarely a good idea, regardless of the
size of the text in the image.
and
you are not going to increase those by increasing the font size so there you
go.

You can zoom the whole page (including images) in Opera.
 

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