3rd party designers & gigs

D

...D.

I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Any suggestions?

...D.
 
R

rf

....D. said:
I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

Get an editor that does nice syntax colouring. Crimson editor is the one I
use. There are others.
something like Front Page?

*NO*. Never, ever use frontpage. It inserts rubbish into your code.
 
A

Augustus

...D. said:
I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

So... the next step is doing web design as a side job?

I kid you not, but some of us actually do this full time for a living!!
(where its neither a side job, or a job where we have a side job)

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Well... programs like FrontPage or Dreamweaver might be "Ok" for an
inexperienced person to update their website with... but they'd still have
to buy them (and I say "might be ok" which doesn't mean 'is a good choice'
or 'is ok'... you could sit with some people and show them over and over
again for a whole day on how to update their site with FrontPage and they'll
still have no clue what they are doing a day later)

What you want to search around the net for is "Content Management System" or
"CMS"

You might want to include the programming language you prefer to work with

Personally I would prefer to write a custom CMS system myself... but it can
take alot of time and effort to build a good system. If you are just
thinking of doing this as some side gig to make a few extra bucks here and
there, then you might want to just buy a premade CMS system... if you want
to do this web design stuff for a living then you might want to work on
writing your own (a good, though potentially extremely complex, project to
develop and learn the ropes with)
 
A

Alan Cole

...D. said:
I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

No no no, don't use front-page! Although, I'm currently developing a
site for a university dept. and part of the requirements from the
universities Information Services Dept on web design regulations are
that it has to be editable in Front-page!! I've tried to tell them that
serious web-designers don't use Front Page, but they won't have any of
it.
I don't have Front Page myself, so I've convinved them to have a simple
Content Management System instead. I think you'll find most people will
use a text-editor, but one that colour-codes your syntax. I use an app
called PageSpinner on my Mac which also has built in ftp support and
lots of other features (including a preview page). Another Mac app that
looks good is TextMate which has loads of good features (auto tag
completion, site management etc etc.)

Lots of people do use Dreamweaver and then encourage their clients to
purchase Macromedia Contribute to allow them to maintain their sites.
personally I've never got on with Dreamweaver and most of my clients
couldn't afford to purchase a Contribute license so I just build them
quick and easy Content Management Systems. A simple CMS allowing them to
just change the text on each page using php and a MySQL database takes
no longer to build that a normal html + css page. You can of course
charge a little more for CMS features.

HTH
Al.
 
S

SpaceGirl

....D. said:
I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Any suggestions?

...D.

DreamWeaver MX 2004, without a doubt. It makes life VERY easy. But only
if you're an experienced HTML writer, and never in "WYSIWYG" mode.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
 
D

...D.

I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
side-job?

What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Any suggestions?

...D.

Ok thanks for the suggestions. I am not interested at this time in
writing or competing with full time professionals who write for big
business. I know HTML in notepad pretty good. I do not know any
additional languages. But what I want is something that an individual or
small business (on a budget) can maintain the site themselves if they so
choose.

Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
it myself and what program should I use?

Thanks again...

...D.
 
N

neredbojias

Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:
Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
it myself and what program should I use?

I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.
 
K

Karl Core

What 3rd party program should I get into
then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
lot about Front Page.)

Any suggestions?

I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
gets asked, on average, once a week.
 
D

Dan Ruscoe

neredbojias said:
Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:


I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.

Some clients have their hearts set on pointless flash intros. Often the
best thing to do is give them what they want, include a 'skip intro'
link and take their money.
 
D

...D.

Karl Core said:
I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
gets asked, on average, once a week.

Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn to
do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because bla
bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..

There is kind of an "expert club" in this newsgroup I noticed before when
I looked in on (subscribed breifly) this newsgroup that some people here
belong to, and if you are not savvy enough, they want you to go reasearch
it on your own. Well, I don't see in the title of this newsgroup where it
says anything about "beginners excluded" or whatever. That is what I feel
newsgroups are for, to ask questions - hell I could do all kinds of Google
searches and read and read and search and come up with an answer. Of
course this is not aimed at most people in this newsgroup, or at least the
other 6 people who responded so far.
...D.
 
B

Barbara de Zoete

Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn
to do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because
bla
bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..

Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
very legit with his response.

As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
interact, find the do's and don'ts.
One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
people stopped contributing to this question.

It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
example.
 
D

...D.

Barbara de Zoete said:
Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
very legit with his response.

As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
interact, find the do's and don'ts.
One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
people stopped contributing to this question.

It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
example.

I have been doing the Internet for a year and a half now after
re-introducing myself to computing. I have become completely immersed and
it is a wonderful hobby, and I spend lots of time in. I know quite a bit
now in several aspects of computing. I am no dummy. You say one of the
don't is this, and I say no, it is not. Not if all it takes is a few
sentences for sure.

I have been doing Usenet in the year and a half. I am right on about some
"members" of this newsgroup. I have looked in here more than I let on. I
know a bit more than I let on about website design, though still not very
knowledgeable in a lot of it, and thus my post was legitimate. I felt I
had to act this way or else get the "snub" again.

So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish, I
feel it is a legitimate point of view. I do not see it written down that
it should be this way, I just happen to think not and you do. If it said
was alt.html.professionas I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't ask here.
A far as I am concerned by the newsgeoup title name, utter complete
beginners should be able to ask very basic stuff here, and get helpful
anwsers. Not "go fish". At least should be "You have to learn just a few
basics, start here and come back later once you've got a few thjings down:
http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/

And I understand this is a newsgroup - so in that light, My opinion of how
to research a subject and yours are equally legit. So we have differing
opinions about it. He is not the first to mention to others to look it up
yourself, and I feel the same way about those replies too. Nothing is
100%, in a few cases are legit, not usually.

I'd be searching for what headers?, And spending time reading each post I
was searching, then trying another search criteria.., hoping it hit on my
issue. So - my opinion is newgroups exist for exacltly that you don't
have to research first !! And also when I subscribe to a newsgroup like
I just did here, I don't have it load up every post available, I give it a
finite number (like a weeks worth of headers).. So I can't search back
anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.

So we disagree. I spouted, you spouted. Where in the rules does it say
you have to pre-research before you ask a question. Some suggest this of
course. I am on the opposite fence of what a newsgroups function is.

Also, I haven't been completely honest, I kinda acted as if I did not
already have a 3rd party website writing program, but I do already have
one, and am just now getting used to it. But I wanted pure feedback
because I'll abandon this one (was only $50) if there is something better
to look into... It is not a well known company that makes it. I just
wanted to see if I could get away from telling a possible client that I
might write for to buy the same program I used to maintain the site. I
don't like a few things it handles certain ways. Kind of mystical writing
all scripts. There should be a lesser $$ "maintenance" software package,
but there is not. Also why waste time training myself with it, if
eventually I would move beyond the "individual & small business" stage..
It is all speculation now as I have not yet written anything for anyone.

Here's what I've done so far. Didn't know what "HTML" was 6 months ago.
Learned from websites like davesite - not asking here - so I am not that
Fxxkin lazy. New site new name. Abandoned my old site name for
something more generic (ran a Blacknova Traders web-based game website
written in notepad & HTML only my son wanted - no Javascript or any other
languages, and still am not real knowledgeable with the java, though can
copy-paste and try).

In case anyone is interested in my effort thus far with a $50 3rd party
program : http://www.kicknet.net Like I said - trying to break into the
individuals or small business as a part time occasional gig.. Don't be
too critical.

...D.
 
B

Barbara de Zoete

<snip way too long bedtime story>

It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.

I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.

Good bey,
 
D

...D.

Barbara de Zoete said:
<snip way too long bedtime story>

It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.

I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.

Good bey,

Have a good one. ...Good bey to you too...

...D.

P.S. And BTW I don't care if you are interested or not in my diary. But
at least you didn't say "go do Google research on how to write a diary".
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

....D. wrote:

....
So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish,

Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
Tuesday fish for you as well.

Who wants to sign on to get his Wednesday fish? ;-)

Rereading the thread, I already see a number of answers to your
original question...

OBTW, what's this all about?
http://www.kicknet.net/_wp_scripts/jsDetectBrowser.js
 
R

rf

Beauregard said:
Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
Tuesday fish for you as well.

It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said fish. Just
need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :)
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

rf said:
It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said
fish. Just need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :)

You got your rod out early, eh? Ono, does that mean I have to catch
the Wednesday fish?
 

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