3rd party designers & gigs

Discussion in 'HTML' started by ...D., Nov 22, 2004.

  1. ...D.

    ...D. Guest

    I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    side-job?

    What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
    then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    lot about Front Page.)

    Any suggestions?

    ...D.
     
    ...D., Nov 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. ...D.

    rf Guest

    ....D. wrote:

    > I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    > want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    > side-job?


    Get an editor that does nice syntax colouring. Crimson editor is the one I
    use. There are others.

    > something like Front Page?


    *NO*. Never, ever use frontpage. It inserts rubbish into your code.


    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. ...D.

    Augustus Guest

    "...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    > want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    > side-job?


    So... the next step is doing web design as a side job?

    I kid you not, but some of us actually do this full time for a living!!
    (where its neither a side job, or a job where we have a side job)


    > What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
    > then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    > maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    > lot about Front Page.)


    Well... programs like FrontPage or Dreamweaver might be "Ok" for an
    inexperienced person to update their website with... but they'd still have
    to buy them (and I say "might be ok" which doesn't mean 'is a good choice'
    or 'is ok'... you could sit with some people and show them over and over
    again for a whole day on how to update their site with FrontPage and they'll
    still have no clue what they are doing a day later)

    What you want to search around the net for is "Content Management System" or
    "CMS"

    You might want to include the programming language you prefer to work with

    Personally I would prefer to write a custom CMS system myself... but it can
    take alot of time and effort to build a good system. If you are just
    thinking of doing this as some side gig to make a few extra bucks here and
    there, then you might want to just buy a premade CMS system... if you want
    to do this web design stuff for a living then you might want to work on
    writing your own (a good, though potentially extremely complex, project to
    develop and learn the ropes with)
     
    Augustus, Nov 22, 2004
    #3
  4. ...D.

    Alan Cole Guest

    In article <>,
    ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

    > I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    > want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    > side-job?
    >
    > What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
    > then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    > maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    > lot about Front Page.)


    No no no, don't use front-page! Although, I'm currently developing a
    site for a university dept. and part of the requirements from the
    universities Information Services Dept on web design regulations are
    that it has to be editable in Front-page!! I've tried to tell them that
    serious web-designers don't use Front Page, but they won't have any of
    it.
    I don't have Front Page myself, so I've convinved them to have a simple
    Content Management System instead. I think you'll find most people will
    use a text-editor, but one that colour-codes your syntax. I use an app
    called PageSpinner on my Mac which also has built in ftp support and
    lots of other features (including a preview page). Another Mac app that
    looks good is TextMate which has loads of good features (auto tag
    completion, site management etc etc.)

    Lots of people do use Dreamweaver and then encourage their clients to
    purchase Macromedia Contribute to allow them to maintain their sites.
    personally I've never got on with Dreamweaver and most of my clients
    couldn't afford to purchase a Contribute license so I just build them
    quick and easy Content Management Systems. A simple CMS allowing them to
    just change the text on each page using php and a MySQL database takes
    no longer to build that a normal html + css page. You can of course
    charge a little more for CMS features.

    HTH
    Al.

    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > ...D.


    --
    Alan Cole. E-mail: justal at lineone dot net
    http://www.forces-of-nature.co.uk [Coastal Sports]
    http://www.tsunami-site-design.co.uk [Website Design]
    http://tinyurl.com/64xrd [Plusnet ISP]
     
    Alan Cole, Nov 22, 2004
    #4
  5. ...D.

    SpaceGirl Guest

    ....D. wrote:
    > I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    > want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    > side-job?
    >
    > What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
    > then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    > maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    > lot about Front Page.)
    >
    > Any suggestions?
    >
    > ...D.


    DreamWeaver MX 2004, without a doubt. It makes life VERY easy. But only
    if you're an experienced HTML writer, and never in "WYSIWYG" mode.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Nov 22, 2004
    #5
  6. ...D.

    ...D. Guest

    On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:15:20 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

    >I am curious at this point - web design in notepad is OK. What if you
    >want to take the next step though - design at least part time as a
    >side-job?
    >
    >What do you people recommend? What 3rd party program should I get into
    >then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    >maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    >lot about Front Page.)
    >
    >Any suggestions?
    >
    > ...D.


    Ok thanks for the suggestions. I am not interested at this time in
    writing or competing with full time professionals who write for big
    business. I know HTML in notepad pretty good. I do not know any
    additional languages. But what I want is something that an individual or
    small business (on a budget) can maintain the site themselves if they so
    choose.

    Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
    pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
    your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
    them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
    it myself and what program should I use?

    Thanks again...

    ...D.
     
    ...D., Nov 22, 2004
    #6
  7. ...D.

    neredbojias Guest

    Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:

    > Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
    > pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
    > your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
    > them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
    > it myself and what program should I use?


    I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    neredbojias, Nov 22, 2004
    #7
  8. ...D.

    Karl Core Guest

    "...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
    news:...

    >What 3rd party program should I get into
    > then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    > maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    > lot about Front Page.)
    >
    > Any suggestions?


    I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
    gets asked, on average, once a week.


    --
    -Karl Core
    Please Support "Project Boneyard":
    http://www.insurgence.net/info.aspx?action=band&item=boneyard
     
    Karl Core, Nov 22, 2004
    #8
  9. ...D.

    Dan Ruscoe Guest

    In article <>, neredbojias
    says...
    > Without quill or qualm, ...D. quothed:
    >
    > > Also would like an opinion on this - I can manipulate already made
    > > pictures (JPGs etc) pretty well. Now it looks like flash is in. What is
    > > your opinions on flash - if a person wanted a flash intro, would I tell
    > > them to have one made, would I have one made, or should I learn how to do
    > > it myself and what program should I use?

    >
    > I'm on dial-up. If a site has Flash, I leave.


    Some clients have their hearts set on pointless flash intros. Often the
    best thing to do is give them what they want, include a 'skip intro'
    link and take their money.

    --
    Dan Ruscoe
     
    Dan Ruscoe, Nov 22, 2004
    #9
  10. ...D.

    ...D. Guest

    >"...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >
    >>What 3rd party program should I get into
    >> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    >> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    >> lot about Front Page.)
    >>
    >> Any suggestions?


    "Karl Core" <> wrote:
    >I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question that
    >gets asked, on average, once a week.


    Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
    this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
    to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn to
    do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because bla
    bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..

    There is kind of an "expert club" in this newsgroup I noticed before when
    I looked in on (subscribed breifly) this newsgroup that some people here
    belong to, and if you are not savvy enough, they want you to go reasearch
    it on your own. Well, I don't see in the title of this newsgroup where it
    says anything about "beginners excluded" or whatever. That is what I feel
    newsgroups are for, to ask questions - hell I could do all kinds of Google
    searches and read and read and search and come up with an answer. Of
    course this is not aimed at most people in this newsgroup, or at least the
    other 6 people who responded so far.
    ...D.
     
    ...D., Nov 22, 2004
    #10
  11. On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:31:52 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

    >> "...D." <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> What 3rd party program should I get into
    >>> then? Would it be something that wrote so a client could do his own
    >>> maintenance & updates - something like Front Page? (do not know a whole
    >>> lot about Front Page.)
    >>>
    >>> Any suggestions?

    >
    > "Karl Core" <> wrote:
    >> I would suggest reading the group's archives before asking a question
    >> that
    >> gets asked, on average, once a week.

    >
    > Now see, Karl, everything was going nicely. I just re-subscribed into
    > this newsgroup after not having it for a while. In the time it took you
    > to write that sentence you could have written a one liner saying "learn
    > to do it yourself because bla bla bla." or" don't do it yourself because
    > bla
    > bla bla." or "have someone else do it because blabla bla"..


    Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
    personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
    very legit with his response.

    As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
    bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
    up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
    interact, find the do's and don'ts.
    One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
    repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
    people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
    better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
    much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
    people stopped contributing to this question.

    It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
    question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
    yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
    example.
    --
    Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Nov 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Barbara de Zoete wrote:

    > Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
    > personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
    > is very legit with his response.


    ...and sooner or later, someone will post one of these for an answer. <g>

    http://www.amatecon.com/fish.html

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 22, 2004
    #12
  13. On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:14:22 GMT, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
    <> wrote:

    > Barbara de Zoete wrote:
    >
    >> Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
    >> personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
    >> is very legit with his response.

    >
    > ..and sooner or later, someone will post one of these for an answer. <g>
    >
    > http://www.amatecon.com/fish.html
    >


    LOL I'll see if I can remember to throw in that page what appropriate.

    --
    Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Nov 22, 2004
    #13
  14. ...D.

    ...D. Guest

    "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote:
    >Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
    >personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl is
    >very legit with his response.
    >
    >As to being new: if you enter any sort of community, be it a forum or a
    >bar or a hotel or a newsgroup or a school or later, when you really grow
    >up, a home for the elderly, first thing you look for is how people
    >interact, find the do's and don'ts.
    >One of the don'ts in any newsgroup I know, is that the same question gets
    >repeatedly answerd over and over and over again by the same group of
    >people. Referring to the archives of this newsgroup might in fact be a
    >better answer than any one you got in this thread, because it includes
    >much more than gets revealed in this single thread, especially since
    >people stopped contributing to this question.
    >
    >It would be a lot easier for all of us if you could accompany a next
    >question whith a short talk about what you have done to find the answer
    >yourself. That way you wont get advise to do what you already did for
    >example.


    I have been doing the Internet for a year and a half now after
    re-introducing myself to computing. I have become completely immersed and
    it is a wonderful hobby, and I spend lots of time in. I know quite a bit
    now in several aspects of computing. I am no dummy. You say one of the
    don't is this, and I say no, it is not. Not if all it takes is a few
    sentences for sure.

    I have been doing Usenet in the year and a half. I am right on about some
    "members" of this newsgroup. I have looked in here more than I let on. I
    know a bit more than I let on about website design, though still not very
    knowledgeable in a lot of it, and thus my post was legitimate. I felt I
    had to act this way or else get the "snub" again.

    So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
    checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
    with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish, I
    feel it is a legitimate point of view. I do not see it written down that
    it should be this way, I just happen to think not and you do. If it said
    was alt.html.professionas I wouldn't even be here and I wouldn't ask here.
    A far as I am concerned by the newsgeoup title name, utter complete
    beginners should be able to ask very basic stuff here, and get helpful
    anwsers. Not "go fish". At least should be "You have to learn just a few
    basics, start here and come back later once you've got a few thjings down:
    http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/

    And I understand this is a newsgroup - so in that light, My opinion of how
    to research a subject and yours are equally legit. So we have differing
    opinions about it. He is not the first to mention to others to look it up
    yourself, and I feel the same way about those replies too. Nothing is
    100%, in a few cases are legit, not usually.

    I'd be searching for what headers?, And spending time reading each post I
    was searching, then trying another search criteria.., hoping it hit on my
    issue. So - my opinion is newgroups exist for exacltly that you don't
    have to research first !! And also when I subscribe to a newsgroup like
    I just did here, I don't have it load up every post available, I give it a
    finite number (like a weeks worth of headers).. So I can't search back
    anyway unless I unsubscribe and re subscribe and load up 1000s of headers,
    which I ain't gonna do, and don't feel others should have to do either.

    So we disagree. I spouted, you spouted. Where in the rules does it say
    you have to pre-research before you ask a question. Some suggest this of
    course. I am on the opposite fence of what a newsgroups function is.

    Also, I haven't been completely honest, I kinda acted as if I did not
    already have a 3rd party website writing program, but I do already have
    one, and am just now getting used to it. But I wanted pure feedback
    because I'll abandon this one (was only $50) if there is something better
    to look into... It is not a well known company that makes it. I just
    wanted to see if I could get away from telling a possible client that I
    might write for to buy the same program I used to maintain the site. I
    don't like a few things it handles certain ways. Kind of mystical writing
    all scripts. There should be a lesser $$ "maintenance" software package,
    but there is not. Also why waste time training myself with it, if
    eventually I would move beyond the "individual & small business" stage..
    It is all speculation now as I have not yet written anything for anyone.

    Here's what I've done so far. Didn't know what "HTML" was 6 months ago.
    Learned from websites like davesite - not asking here - so I am not that
    Fxxkin lazy. New site new name. Abandoned my old site name for
    something more generic (ran a Blacknova Traders web-based game website
    written in notepad & HTML only my son wanted - no Javascript or any other
    languages, and still am not real knowledgeable with the java, though can
    copy-paste and try).

    In case anyone is interested in my effort thus far with a $50 3rd party
    program : http://www.kicknet.net Like I said - trying to break into the
    individuals or small business as a part time occasional gig.. Don't be
    too critical.

    ...D.
     
    ...D., Nov 22, 2004
    #14
  15. On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 14:26:52 -0800, ...D. <d@no_usenet_email..org> wrote:

    > "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote:
    >> Now hold your horses, angry young sir. This is a newsgroup. Not your
    >> personal helpdesk. You cannot demand whatever response of anyone. Karl
    >> is
    >> very legit with his response.
    >>


    <snip way too long bedtime story>

    It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
    want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.

    I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.

    Good bey,


    --
    Weblog | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html>
    Webontwerp | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    Zweefvliegen | <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Nov 22, 2004
    #15
  16. ...D.

    ...D. Guest

    "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote:
    ><snip way too long bedtime story>
    >
    >It is not about being professional. It is adopting the groups flow, if you
    >want to, get in groove with what is and what is not in here.
    >
    >I'm not at all interested in an abstract of your diary.
    >
    >Good bey,


    Have a good one. ...Good bey to you too...

    ...D.

    P.S. And BTW I don't care if you are interested or not in my diary. But
    at least you didn't say "go do Google research on how to write a diary".
     
    ...D., Nov 22, 2004
    #16
  17. ...D.

    rf Guest

    rf, Nov 22, 2004
    #17
  18. ....D. wrote:

    ....
    > So when I say I don't like replies that tell me to research on my own by
    > checking into other posts in the newsgroup instead of easily answering me
    > with the same amount of energy used that it took to tell me to go fish,


    Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
    fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
    Tuesday fish for you as well.

    Who wants to sign on to get his Wednesday fish? ;-)

    Rereading the thread, I already see a number of answers to your
    original question...

    OBTW, what's this all about?
    http://www.kicknet.net/_wp_scripts/jsDetectBrowser.js

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 22, 2004
    #18
  19. ...D.

    rf Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch your
    > fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll get your
    > Tuesday fish for you as well.


    It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said fish. Just
    need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :)

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Nov 22, 2004
    #19
  20. rf wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    >> Gosh, I'm really sorry I mentioned the fish page. I'll go catch
    >> your fish for you today, and since I'm not busy tomorrow, I'll
    >> get your Tuesday fish for you as well.

    >
    > It's *is* Tuesday over here in .au and I have already caught said
    > fish. Just need an email address, ...D.'s appears to be broken :)


    You got your rod out early, eh? Ono, does that mean I have to catch
    the Wednesday fish?

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left digging worms.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 22, 2004
    #20
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