A fairly new person at ASP.

[David]

Hey,

I'm a fairly new person at ASP, and MS technologies kinda in general.
I've been a big fan of PHP/MySQL, and unix environments for awhile. I
used to do VC++ and VB with VS6, and have for the most part no
experience at all with the .net framework.

To expand my knowledge, I'm hoping to get into ASP some - and to learn
VB.net and C# as well, to program in ASP. I was hoping that I could
ask a few questions that I had kinda right off, that I couldn't really
find the answer to in my ASP.net 2.0 Unleashed book, that I recently
bought.

The first question is about editors and compiling. Coming from a
unixtypeish background, I enjoy using more unix editors than windows
ones. This is mostly just personal preference, but is there ways of
doing ASP.net 2.0 pages and compile them from the command line (From
what I understand asp pages are compiled into a microsoft intermediate
language). I have VS.net, though, 2002 I think it was from the
university but I haven't really used it much.

The second question is about databases. I have experience mostly with
MySQL overall, and have it already setup on my mac. I'm running
windows through parallels workstation, which emulates a machine for the
most part. I was hoping not to increase the overhead of my setup if
possible - are there classes or anything available for connecting to a
MySQL database, over an SQL server one? I want to get experience in
both of course, but at this point I just want to take more baby steps
kinda.

Thanks for any help anyone can give on these questions, I really appreciate it.

-David

 

[Scott M.]

The first question is about editors and compiling. Coming from a

unixtypeish background, I enjoy using more unix editors than windows ones.
This is mostly just personal preference, but is there ways of doing
ASP.net 2.0 pages and compile them from the command line (From what I
understand asp pages are compiled into a microsoft intermediate language).
I have VS.net, though, 2002 I think it was from the university but I
haven't really used it much.

You must have the .NET Framework on any machine where you will develop or
run .NET applications. The Framework comes with command line compilers for
each of the .NET languages, so yes, you could use any editor you wish and
manually compile.

The second question is about databases. I have experience mostly with
MySQL overall, and have it already setup on my mac. I'm running windows
through parallels workstation, which emulates a machine for the most part.
I was hoping not to increase the overhead of my setup if possible - are
there classes or anything available for connecting to a MySQL database,
over an SQL server one? I want to get experience in both of course, but
at this point I just want to take more baby steps kinda.

The are ODBC and OLEDB classes to access any ODBC or OLEDB compliant data
source. There are also dedicated SQL data classes.


One other minor note. To distinguish from the old ASP (now called "Classic
ASP" by many), the ASP that you work with in .NET is referred to as ASP.NET,
not ASP. Some folks will get confused if you mean .NET, but just say ASP
and not ASP.NET.

 

[Jacek Stawicki]

You must have the .NET Framework on any machine where you will develop or
run .NET applications. The Framework comes with command line compilers
for each of the .NET languages, so yes, you could use any editor you wish
and manually compile.

I agree up to a point. In fact you do not need .Net Framework installed on
your machine
until you write script files. It is possible to write script file on Unix
system,
transfer it onto IIS web server and run. Pre-compiled dll files are not
required
in most cases, so you do not need any .net compiler on workstation.

Of course there is also .Net Framework available on Unix systems (the most
known
on Free BSD).

 

[Mark Rae]

There are also dedicated SQL data classes.

Yes, but only because the people who make SQL Server also make the .NET
Framework.

There are loads of native .NET data providers for other databases available

http://www.sqlsummit.com/DataProv.htm

including for mySQL.

http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/net/1.0.html
http://www.connectionstrings.com/

 

[Scott M.]

I agree up to a point. In fact you do not need .Net Framework installed on

your machine
until you write script files. It is possible to write script file on Unix
system,
transfer it onto IIS web server and run. Pre-compiled dll files are not
required
in most cases, so you do not need any .net compiler on workstation.

But, let's be realistic. Without the .NET Framework, you might as well just
stick to Classic ASP, since you won't get to use any of the .NET classes or
work with compiled code.

While it is *possible* to create .aspx files and have them run without the
Framework, it is not realistic.

 

[Scott M.]

There are also dedicated SQL data classes.

Yes, but only because the people who make SQL Server also make the .NET
Framework.

What's your point?

There are loads of native .NET data providers for other databases
available

Well, they really aren't native, since they aren't included natively with
the .NET Framework. The Framework comes with the following *native*
providers

ODBC, OLE DB, Oracle, SQL

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Well, they really aren't native, since they aren't included natively with

the .NET Framework. The Framework comes with the following *native*
providers

ODBC, OLE DB, Oracle, SQL

Incorrect. A "native provider" is a provider that works directly with the
database software, rather than via OLE DB OR ODBC, both of which are
intermediate technologies that provide a single unified programming API for
many database types. In fact, ODBC itself is a wrapper for OLE DB, which is
a low-level intermediate technology. The Hierarchy is something like this:

System.Data.ODBC
****************
|
ODBC (with specific database driver)
|
OLE DB
|
OLE DB-compliant Database

System.Data.OleDb
***************
|
OLE DB
|
OLE DB-compliant Database


When a native .Net data provider is used, the connection to the database is
immediate:

System.Data.SqlClient
*****************
|
SQL Server

System.Data.OracleClient
********************
|
Oracle

Therefore, a native provider is more efficient than either OLE DB or ODBC.
--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

What You Seek Is What You Get.

 

[Scott M.]

Agreed. My use of the term *Native* was referring to *built-into* the
framework.

 

[Mark Rae]

Agreed. My use of the term *Native* was referring to *built-into* the
framework.

I can't help that...

v1.0 didn't have either "native" or "built-in" support for ODBC - instead,
it was available only as an add-on.

 

[Scott M.]

The ODBC Namespace and the classes therein have been part of the .NET
Framework since the beginning. Using it did not require any add-ins.

 

[Mark Rae]

The ODBC Namespace and the classes therein have been part of the .NET
Framework since the beginning.

Er...you sure...?

Using it did not require any add-ins.

Apart, obviously, from the one you had to download from the Microsoft site
and install separately...
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...27-1017-4f33-a062-d165078e32b1&displaylang=en

And then set about configuring machine.config manually, etc...

 

[David Thole]

But, let's be realistic. Without the .NET Framework, you might as well
just stick to Classic ASP, since you won't get to use any of the .NET
classes or work with compiled code.

While it is *possible* to create .aspx files and have them run without
the Framework, it is not realistic.

Thanks to both of you for your help in answering this question. In the
end, I'll probably just create a mount location to that directory, and
edit files that way, then run them. To my understanding that should
work, even if the debugging doesn't work fully.

 

[David Thole]

The ODBC Namespace and the classes therein have been part of the .NET
Framework since the beginning. Using it did not require any add-ins.

Thanks to all of you for the help on this, and the answers to my
questions. It's a little over my head right now, hopefully within a
few months I'll understand ASP better. I got ASP .net 2.0 unleashed
yesterday, and it's a pretty good book - a bit over my head since I
dont' know VB.net or C#.net at all at this point. I used to use VB6
and VC++ 6, but not this.

Thanks again,

David

 

[Scott M.]

If you look at the publish date of the add-in you refer to, you will see
that it pre-dates the public release of VS.NET 2002.

Installing VS.NET 2002 gives you the 1.0 Framework and the ODBC provider is
available immediately.

 

[Mark Rae]

If you look at the publish date of the add-in you refer to, you will see
that it pre-dates the public release of VS.NET 2002.
LOL!

Installing VS.NET 2002 gives you the 1.0 Framework and the ODBC provider
is available immediately.

<rolls eyes>

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;310985

Read the paragraph which begins "The ODBC .NET Data Provider is an add-on
component to the Microsoft .NET Framework..." very slowly and carefully, one
word at a time...

Here's another one: http://www.akadia.com/services/dotnet_dbaccess.html

Scroll down to point 6, and read aloud the paragraph beginning "Unlike the
two other .NET providers, the Odbc provider is not shipped with the .NET
Framework..."

 

[Scott M.]

I have read each of the articles, but neither addresses the point that we're
talking about the status of the Framework during the pre-release period.