A few beginners questions

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by wannaberor, Apr 6, 2007.

  1. wannaberor

    wannaberor Guest

    Guys,

    What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?

    Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?

    Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.

    Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    welcome.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    wannaberor, Apr 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. Reid Thompson, Apr 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. wannaberor

    Robert Dober Guest

    On 4/6/07, wannaberor <> wrote:
    > Guys,
    >
    > What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?

    This has been answered nicely ;)
    >
    > Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?

    Depends a lot on your background, are you interested in Ruby only or
    in Rails too as the context of your question might suggest, do you
    have programming experience, you really should search the list for
    that kind of answers.
    >
    > Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    > AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.


    For what my opionin is worth learn Ruby first, it is a great language
    to start with.
    >
    > Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    > welcome.

    Really just search the list if you have any problems with that, ask again...

    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >
    >

    Cheers
    Robert

    --
    You see things; and you say Why?
    But I dream things that never were; and I say Why not?
    -- George Bernard Shaw
     
    Robert Dober, Apr 6, 2007
    #3
  4. wannaberor

    John Joyce Guest

    It depends on what you want to do.
    But here goes,
    1. You can learn Ruby and at the same time learn XHTML + CSS
    2. Before concerning too much about AJAX you'll need to learn some
    JavaScript and DOM scripting as well, but while learning that, you
    need an understanding of how web sites really work: how pages are
    requested, served and then handled by user-agents (browsers).
    Don't worry, none of it is all that difficult, it's just a lot to
    learn at once!
    3. After you feel comfortable with XHTML and CSS, and perhaps a
    little bit about XML, take a look at AJAX and if you haven't, XML too.
    AJAX itself is not complicated. The fancier things are not simple,
    though. But at this point, the skills you learn in Ruby and in XHTML
    + CSS (actually XML!) and a bit of DOM scripting (JavaScript) things
    start to converge with AJAX (and things like REST, SOAP)
    But if you go to all this effort, you should go ahead and learn some
    SQL of some sort too, because most of this stuff ends up going into
    or out of a database. So add MySQL or PostgreSQL or SQLite to the mix!

    The big hint though: to really make use of AJAX you need to
    understand the DOM and that each browser has a slightly different
    implementation (well this is true of so many things!) AJAX is
    basically simple, but there is a lot to learn to get there. The
    question is, is the reward worth the effort? In the end you may find
    that it is just a really difficult way to make a Flash page... (now I
    duck for cover...)
    On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:

    > Guys,
    >
    > What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?
    >
    > Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?
    >
    > Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    > AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
    >
    > Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    > welcome.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >
     
    John Joyce, Apr 6, 2007
    #4
  5. wannaberor

    Peter Slider Guest

    John, thanks for your words.

    Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
    dedication?

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
     
    Peter Slider, Apr 6, 2007
    #5
  6. Peter Slider wrote:
    > John, thanks for your words.
    >
    > Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
    > dedication?
    >


    The basics: Most likely, depending on your learning abilities.
    Mastery: Not.

    But don't be discouraged by this: Once you know the basics, you can do a
    lot already. Mastery, though, takes longer. It usually means that you
    know all your areas of expertise in and out, but doesn't describe your
    abilities to do the job at hand. And comes only with practice and
    actually writing code in this area.

    You probably should at databases (MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle[0]) to your
    "things to learn" list, too.

    [0] you can get a free as in beer variant of Oracle 10g from oracle's
    website, called Oracle XE:
    http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.html

    --
    Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
    http://cynicalryan.110mb.com/

    Rule of Open-Source Programming #7:

    Release early, release often. Clean compilation is optional.
     
    Phillip Gawlowski, Apr 6, 2007
    #6
  7. wannaberor

    John Joyce Guest

    2/3 months you can learn a lot, but I have to agree, mastery it won't
    be, young Jedi!
    Just have the realistic expectations that there will be parts that
    bog down or that frustrate or confuse.
    You can cover a lot of material in 3 months, but only so much in one
    day. As you learn this stuff you need to use it to make stuff, that's
    where the real learning and retention of knowledge happens. Start
    with some web sites. Spend money on books too. Take a break when you
    get burned out. XHTML + CSS and Ruby and maybe a database at the same
    time. That's probably more than enough to learn for 3 months.
    Databases have a slower learning curve sometimes, because you can't
    skip the theory part and it is always troublesome if your design is
    flawed (many of them will be).

    Here's a list of books I'd recommend:
    Bulletproof Web Design
    CSS Mastery
    Professional CSS
    (none of these covers IE7 because it is too recent, but these are
    actually very good)

    Learning MySQL
    MySQL phrasebook

    Beginning Ruby from Novice to Professional
    Ruby Cookbook
    Programming Ruby (the pickaxe)

    Teach Yourself Javascript in 24 hours, 4th ed. (they never mean that,
    think of it as 24 chapters)
    Javascript phrasebook

    If you're planning to use AJAX and Ruby for web sites, you might as
    well consider learning Rails as well, but after you've tackled some
    of the other stuff.
    On Apr 7, 2007, at 6:12 AM, Phillip Gawlowski wrote:

    > Peter Slider wrote:
    >> John, thanks for your words.
    >> Reckon this is possible in about 2/3 months with loads of daily
    >> dedication?

    >
    > The basics: Most likely, depending on your learning abilities.
    > Mastery: Not.
    >
    > But don't be discouraged by this: Once you know the basics, you can
    > do a lot already. Mastery, though, takes longer. It usually means
    > that you know all your areas of expertise in and out, but doesn't
    > describe your abilities to do the job at hand. And comes only with
    > practice and actually writing code in this area.
    >
    > You probably should at databases (MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle[0]) to
    > your "things to learn" list, too.
    >
    > [0] you can get a free as in beer variant of Oracle 10g from
    > oracle's website, called Oracle XE:
    > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/database/xe/index.html
    >
    > --
    > Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
    > http://cynicalryan.110mb.com/
    >
    > Rule of Open-Source Programming #7:
    >
    > Release early, release often. Clean compilation is optional.
    >
     
    John Joyce, Apr 7, 2007
    #7
  8. wannaberor

    Scott Taylor Guest

    Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
    this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
    since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with rails).

    But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
    this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
    *one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
    trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
    gone through a short tutorial.

    Scott



    On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:

    > Guys,
    >
    > What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?
    >
    > Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and Ruby?
    >
    > Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    > AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
    >
    > Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    > welcome.
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >
     
    Scott Taylor, Apr 7, 2007
    #8
  9. wannaberor

    John Joyce Guest

    While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work,
    you can't do it forever.
    To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little bit
    of it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you would
    be doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL more so
    than JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP / Perl type of
    programming.
    On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Scott Taylor wrote:

    >
    > Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
    > this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
    > since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with rails).
    >
    > But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
    > this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
    > *one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
    > trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
    > gone through a short tutorial.
    >
    > Scott
    >
    >
    >
    > On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:
    >
    >> Guys,
    >>
    >> What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?
    >>
    >> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and
    >> Ruby?
    >>
    >> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    >> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
    >>
    >> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    >> welcome.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >>

    >
    >
     
    John Joyce, Apr 7, 2007
    #9
  10. John Joyce wrote:
    > While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work, you
    > can't do it forever.
    > To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little bit of
    > it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you would be
    > doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL more so than
    > JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP / Perl type of
    > programming.


    Well, it takes a bit pressure off one's learning, that's for sure. It's
    best to tackle areas of knowledge one at a time. The trick is to find
    out which area can come afterwards. And IMHO, while important, SQL and
    database management and data modeling theory can take a backseat,
    especially given ActiveRecord or DBI.

    Of course, this turns around if you are going to work a lot with
    databases that go beyond web-applications (which have, comparatively,
    rather simple structures).


    I agree those, grabbing SQLite[0] and the respective Ruby gem can only
    help (no need to wrestle with MySQL or Oracle at this point).

    [0] http://www.sqlite.org

    --
    Phillip "CynicalRyan" Gawlowski
    http://cynicalryan.110mb.com/

    Rule of Open-Source Programming #34:

    Every successful project will eventually spawn a sub-project
     
    Phillip Gawlowski, Apr 7, 2007
    #10
  11. wannaberor

    Scott Taylor Guest

    On Apr 7, 2007, at 4:27 AM, John Joyce wrote:

    > While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work,
    > you can't do it forever.
    > To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little
    > bit of it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you
    > would be doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL
    > more so than JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP /
    > Perl type of programming.
    > On Apr 7, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Scott Taylor wrote:
    >


    I think "a little bit of it", at least for sql, would be some theory
    on normalization of databases and foreign keys. Or put another way,
    keep DRY in your databases as well as your code.

    Scott



    >>
    >> Sounds like Rails would be good for getting you started on some of
    >> this stuff. With rails you can avoid SQL and Javascript directly,
    >> since you can use the scriptaculous AJAX library in ruby (with
    >> rails).
    >>
    >> But as has been noted several times, you probably won't be good at
    >> this stuff in 2-3 months. You probably won't even be good at even
    >> *one* of these things in 2-3 months. Experience is the best
    >> trainer. So just start building something in rails after you have
    >> gone through a short tutorial.
    >>
    >> Scott
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On Apr 6, 2007, at 11:28 AM, wannaberor wrote:
    >>
    >>> Guys,
    >>>
    >>> What is http://start.clickuni.com developed in?
    >>>
    >>> Also, what path do you suggest for me to start learning AJAX and
    >>> Ruby?
    >>>
    >>> Do you suggest I independently learn JavaScript, XML and CSS and hit
    >>> AJAX and then Ruby? I'm already familiar with some ruby.
    >>>
    >>> Any sources, info, tips.. asbolutely anything at all would be very
    >>> welcome.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Scott Taylor, Apr 7, 2007
    #11
  12. wannaberor

    SonOfLilit Guest

    SonOfLilit, Apr 7, 2007
    #12
  13. On 4/7/07, Phillip Gawlowski <> wrote:
    > John Joyce wrote:
    > > While Rails does let you skip most of the JavaScript and SQL work, you
    > > can't do it forever.
    > > To really understand what you're doing you should learn a little bit of
    > > it. You don't have to be an expert at it to use it, but you would be
    > > doing yourself a disservice by avoiding those topics. SQL more so than
    > > JS. JS is pretty easy if you've done any C / PHP / Perl type of
    > > programming.

    >
    > Well, it takes a bit pressure off one's learning, that's for sure. It's
    > best to tackle areas of knowledge one at a time. The trick is to find
    > out which area can come afterwards. And IMHO, while important, SQL and
    > database management and data modeling theory can take a backseat,
    > especially given ActiveRecord or DBI.


    I agree. Getting some familiarity with Rails isn't a bad way to get a
    breadth first introduction to what the OP is looking for without
    getting bogged down with details.

    I'd recommend that he get himself a copy of the 2nd ed of Active Web
    Development with Rails, and work through it.

    He'll get enough introduction to the concepts of Ruby, AJAX, and SQL
    to know what to start looking for in more depth.

    The prototype library which Rails uses to do AJAX does a fairly good
    job of hiding the nasty differences between browsers, and the
    descriptions in AWDWR have enough about the issues to provide a hook
    for further learning.

    And eventually digging in to the source code to try to figure out HOW
    Rails and ActiveRecord and their friends are doing their magic will
    provide a good 'textbook' for further study.

    --
    Rick DeNatale

    My blog on Ruby
    http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
     
    Rick DeNatale, Apr 7, 2007
    #13
  14. wannaberor

    Guest

    On Apr 6, 1:25 pm, John Joyce <>
    wrote:
    > It depends on what you want to do.
    > But here goes,
    > 1. You can learn Ruby and at the same time learn XHTML + CSS


    Hmmm. Okay. Personally, I'd put learning XHTML, CSS with learning
    Javascript and DOM. Ruby is a mind twister and should be taken in it's
    own time IMHO.

    > 2. Before concerning too much about AJAX you'll need to learn some
    > JavaScript and DOM scripting as well, but while learning that, you
    > need an understanding of how web sites really work: how pages are
    > requested, served and then handled by user-agents (browsers).
    > Don't worry, none of it is all that difficult, it's just a lot to
    > learn at once!


    Yes.

    > 3. After you feel comfortable with XHTML and CSS, and perhaps a
    > little bit about XML, take a look at AJAX and if you haven't, XML too.
    > AJAX itself is not complicated. The fancier things are not simple,
    > though. But at this point, the skills you learn in Ruby and in XHTML
    > + CSS (actually XML!) and a bit of DOM scripting (JavaScript) things
    > start to converge with AJAX (and things like REST, SOAP)
    > But if you go to all this effort, you should go ahead and learn some
    > SQL of some sort too, because most of this stuff ends up going into
    > or out of a database. So add MySQL or PostgreSQL or SQLite to the mix!


    Yes, this too.

    > The big hint though: to really make use of AJAX you need to
    > understand the DOM and that each browser has a slightly different
    > implementation (well this is true of so many things!) AJAX is
    > basically simple, but there is a lot to learn to get there. The
    > question is, is the reward worth the effort? In the end you may find
    > that it is just a really difficult way to make a Flash page... (now I
    > duck for cover...)


    To make a Flash page behave like an Ajax page you will need to:

    1. Learn Actionscript with is simply the Flash flavored version of
    Javascript.
    2. Learn Flash
    3. Learn Flex which adds an XML UI description format on top of AJAX.
    4. Learn how to integrate Flex with the aforementioned databases (I'm
    guessing here, maybe Flex has some magic SQL-less way to access
    databases)

    And when you are done with these things you will have a nice Flash
    movie that is fast and slick and is completely isolated from the
    browser's DOM. Some consider this a good thing but I think it's very
    limiting at this time. So no, Ajax is more a difficult way to make an
    even more difficult Flash page. But Flash does enable one to keep a
    connection from flash objects to a flash server open so that you can
    push data periodically to the page. This goes a step beyond Ajax and
    is only barely implementable with an HttpRequest object and an Apache
    server.

    Bob
     
    , Apr 10, 2007
    #14
  15. wannaberor

    Samantha Guest

    SonOfLilit wrote:
    > Check out http://RubyMentor.rubyforge.org !
    >
    >
    > Aur Saraf
    >
    >



    You beat me to it! :)

    Of course, I am catching up on the Ruby list as I'm way behind since
    I've started working. I started a job here (not moving downstate) about
    a month ago and I've gotten way behind on my Ruby pursuits. :(

    I probably should be working on stuff, but I'm wading through the lists
    on and off for the past couple of hours. :)

    --
    Samantha

    http://www.babygeek.org/

    "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all
    things are at risk."
    --Ralph Waldo Emerson
     
    Samantha, Apr 22, 2007
    #15
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