a href title - how to hide universal attributes?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Sebastian Eichinger, May 29, 2006.

  1. Hello!

    At first: I'm sorry, my english must be horrible - but i'll try my very
    best.

    Then: A kind of problem i'm not able to fix.

    What matters:
    I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in browsers
    when hovering a link (or image)

    Background:
    I'm creating a link-section on my website. Well, i want to. And i
    managed to show some "tooltips" with informations to each link, on
    mouseover a kind of "popup" or "tooltip" is shown which contains some
    information-text. This is all javascript-based, i don't know much about
    this, but there are many good tutorials.

    My problem:
    When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
    self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.
    The popup-field, which contains the url, or - if added - the text
    entered in the "title"-attribut at the html-link-tag.

    Because of i want to use small images _and_ text, i have this problem at
    my pictures there, too. To write proper html i used the "alt"-attribut
    on images, well, and now there is shown this text as a popup, too.

    (I'm not good in explaining problems in english, you see. )


    Imagine this:

    You're browsing a website, containing lots of image- and textlinks. When
    you're "hovering" a link, a customized popup is shown with some kind of
    information-text.
    And ~ one second later there's shown another popup _in front of_ the
    info-one, a small thing just showing the url.

    Let me say this: i hate this kind of "uncontrolled" function. I was
    browsing for informations and help for _hours_ now, i couldn't find
    anything.

    I really hope to find someone who could help me. And, before i forget:
    I don't want to have any "just by the way" - solution, working if you
    add pages of code to every single one link. This should become a
    link-site, easy to config. So i'm looking forward to fix this with some
    kind of "global settings". Working on the most popular browsers, which
    actually _are_ containing IE ;)

    One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
    seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes not.
    Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.

    So, lots of words, i hope someone understands what i mean, i hope
    someone is willing - and able - to help me.

    Every link, every tip, every info welcome!

    Tank you very much for reading and taking your time,

    Greets,

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 29, 2006
    #1
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  2. Sebastian Eichinger wrote:

    > One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
    > seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes
    > not. Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.


    It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
    Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
    text. There is no bug in Firefox.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, May 29, 2006
    #2
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  3. Sebastian Eichinger

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Sebastian Eichinger
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
    > self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.
    > The popup-field, which contains the url,


    Opera is the only common browser I know of that shows the address as a
    tooltip.

    > or - if added - the text
    > entered in the "title"-attribut at the html-link-tag.


    That's easy to fix - don't add a title attribute. ;-)

    > Because of i want to use small images _and_ text, i have this problem at
    > my pictures there, too. To write proper html i used the "alt"-attribut
    > on images, well, and now there is shown this text as a popup, too.


    Only in IE - it *is* a naughty little thing. It can be brought into line
    by adding a blank title attribute (title="").

    > One thought at last: While IE constantly shows these tooltips, firefox
    > seems to have trouble with them. sometimes they're shown, sometimes not.
    > Seems to be a little bug in 1.5.0.3, or something.


    As above, IE incorrectly displays the alt text as a tooltip (it is
    supposed to be an *alternative* to the image), but a blank title
    attribute corrects this behaviour.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    My Usenet is improved; yours could be too:
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Mark Parnell, May 29, 2006
    #3
  4. Sebastian Eichinger <> scripsit:

    > At first: I'm sorry, my english must be horrible - but i'll try my
    > very best.


    Your English is just fine. What's wrong is that you didn't tell the URL of
    your page.

    > I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in
    > browsers when hovering a link (or image)


    The normal answer is: Stop wanting that.

    > I'm creating a link-section on my website. Well, i want to. And i
    > managed to show some "tooltips" with informations to each link, on
    > mouseover a kind of "popup" or "tooltip" is shown which contains some
    > information-text. This is all javascript-based, i don't know much
    > about this, but there are many good tutorials.


    Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.

    > When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
    > self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.


    If you told the URL, we could see how you create the problem, and then some
    solutions could be suggested. The odds are, however, that you should simply
    remove all that fancy JavaScript stuff. This would also make you concentrate
    on the real thing, namely selecting link texts so that they are
    self-explanatory or at least understandable when read in the context of
    normal content on the page,

    > (I'm not good in explaining problems in english, you see. )


    URLs would help _so_ much.
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, May 29, 2006
    #4
  5. Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:
    > It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
    > Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
    > text. There is no bug in Firefox.


    Yes, you're right - my fault, i'm sorry.

    Well, before i wrote here i was testing and trying for a really long
    time to get this thing done - maybe too long...

    Thank you for strengthen my belief in firefox! ;)
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 29, 2006
    #5
  6. Sebastian Eichinger

    Frank Olieu Guest

    _Sebastian Eichinger_ skrev | wrote | écrivit (29-05-2006 12:51):

    > Thank you for strengthen my belief in firefox! ;)


    Use the Fox, Luke!

    --
    Venlig hilsen | Kind regards | Cordialement
    Frank
     
    Frank Olieu, May 29, 2006
    #6
  7. Sebastian Eichinger

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
    > Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
    > text. There is no bug in Firefox.


    There are plenty, but this is not one of them. ;-)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, May 29, 2006
    #7
  8. Mark Parnell schrieb:
    > Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Sebastian Eichinger
    > <> declared in alt.html:


    What the...? :D
    I can't get this. Should i be... just laughing now, or something? ;)


    >> When having the mouse over a link, there is not only shown the
    >> self-created "info-field" - there is the default-link-tooltip, too.
    >> The popup-field, which contains the url,

    >
    > Opera is the only common browser I know of that shows the address as a
    > tooltip.


    Well, let me tell you another one: IE.
    If no 'title' is added IE does the same.


    >> or - if added - the text
    >> entered in the "title"-attribut at the html-link-tag.

    >
    > That's easy to fix - don't add a title attribute. ;-)


    Hehe - yes, maybe that helps :)
    But see above - some browsers will show the url, then. As a tooltip.


    >> Because of i want to use small images _and_ text, i have this problem at
    >> my pictures there, too. To write proper html i used the "alt"-attribut
    >> on images, well, and now there is shown this text as a popup, too.


    > Only in IE - it *is* a naughty little thing. It can be brought into line
    > by adding a blank title attribute (title="").


    You're my hero! I'm so stupid. i searched and searched, trying
    everything - but not this. Oh my god. Well, at least in FF and IE this
    helps - for images _and_ for links.

    Thank you very, very, very much! :D

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 29, 2006
    #8
  9. Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    >> At first: I'm sorry, my english must be horrible - but i'll try my
    >> very best.

    >
    > Your English is just fine. What's wrong is that you didn't tell the URL
    > of your page.


    Oh sh... yeah, i had this feeling to have forgotten something important.
    Well, the "problem" is solved now by simple using title="", but here is
    the page i meant:

    http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html


    >> I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in
    >> browsers when hovering a link (or image)

    >
    > The normal answer is: Stop wanting that.


    Yes. No. Let me try to explain: I want to add more than just a few
    'title'-description words to each link. And, because i like such things:
    i wanted to customize the tooltips. So what to do? My way of thinking
    was: make your own tooltips > hide the normal ones.

    But any thoughts or ideas are welcome!


    > Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.


    Why? What else then? Do i have to learn Javascript befor i'm allowed to
    create this thing? Should i buy "javascript for dummies", or something?
    Would you feel better, then? ;)

    At first i made some css-based "popup" when hovering. Simple and
    effective - but then i had to realize that this method is not supported
    in IE (and maybe many other browsers). The dozend walk-throughs to get
    this function running on IE won't help. Most of them was like "i
    actually don't know what i was doing, but i just added color:#000 and
    everything works, yeah, even in IE!". One was like "Here, this method
    works on _every_ version of the IE!". Well, doesn't on mine. So i
    stopped typing css and looked for alternatives.

    Yes, i know - javascript isn't a method which will work for all. But
    what to do? If you like to discuss about functionality on _all_
    browsers, to _all_ users worldwide - i'm the wrong guy to talk to.

    After handling some arguments, sooner or later we will end like "each
    website has to be in plain text", so that it's even acessible in
    textbrowsers from 1973. But that doesn't work if you want to create
    something good-looking. Blingbling'n'stuff ;)

    I also created an - as i think - pretty css for my blog. Shouldn't i
    have done, because of there is a "greasemonkey" out there? ;)

    I just don't understand what you mean, why i shouldn't use.
    Im not using each javascript-line i can find on the web, of course. But
    there are really good tutorials out there, and well - now i understand
    some expressions, just because of using this code-snippet. Couldn't be
    this wrong, i guess.

    Oh - sorry for my excessive writing! :)


    Greets, have a nice day!

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 29, 2006
    #9
  10. Sebastian Eichinger <> scripsit:

    > Oh sh... yeah, i had this feeling to have forgotten something
    > important. Well, the "problem" is solved now by simple using
    > title="", but here is the page i meant:
    >
    > http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html


    You didn't solve the problem - you have just removed the small part of the
    problem that bothered you. By the way, my browser (IE 7 beta) signals
    JavaScript errors on the page. Haven't you tested the page with script error
    reporting switched on?

    >>> I want to hide (or deactivate) the "standard-tooltip" shown in
    >>> browsers when hovering a link (or image)

    >>
    >> The normal answer is: Stop wanting that.

    >
    > Yes. No.


    Yes. It's the correct answer as usual.

    > Let me try to explain: I want to add more than just a few
    > 'title'-description words to each link.


    Stop wanting that. If your link needs a long description, change the link or
    add explanatory words into the content that everyone will see (or hear or
    whatever).

    Your page is a striking example of the problems people create when they try
    to add "mouseover explanations" to things. Your special presentation style
    uses horrendously small font with very poor contrast between background and
    color. It's probably almost the worst you can do and still preserve the
    illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you can even yourself read
    it, or whether you just think so because you remember what you have
    written.)

    The real problem that you should solve is that your link texts are cryptic,
    apparently in an attempt to make them look artistic and cool and enigmatic.
    But they are simply a mess, written in Europanto style (an absurd mixture of
    European language).

    If you can produce some visual art, do so, but don't play with links. People
    who build an art gallery are not supposed to make the entrance and the
    doorways and the signs so cryptic that visitors don't know whether a door
    leads to a men's room, a ladies' room, a room with paintings, or to the
    backyard.

    > And, because i like such
    > things: i wanted to customize the tooltips.


    Stop doing that in HTML authoring, unless you author for yourself only.
    Customize your own browsing experience if you like.

    >> Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.

    >
    > Why? What else then?


    Start from simple and logical HTML.

    > Do i have to learn Javascript befor i'm allowed
    > to create this thing?


    Yes. (Well, that's how things _should_ be, at least.)

    > After handling some arguments, sooner or later we will end like "each
    > website has to be in plain text",


    Actually, for quite a many websites, it would be great improvement if they
    were turned into plain text. But your strawman arguments are boring and
    surely don't help you (or your visitors).

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, May 29, 2006
    #10
  11. Sebastian Eichinger

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Toby Inkster <usenet200605
    @tobyinkster.co.uk> vouchsafed:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    >> It is IE that is wrong, for displaying the alt text as a tooltip.
    >> Firefox correctly displays the title text, if present, but not the alt
    >> text. There is no bug in Firefox.

    >
    > There are plenty, but this is not one of them. ;-)


    Yup. I doubt if there's a browser available without at least 1,000 bugs,
    and that includes Firefox.

    Somewhere on the mozilla site or a related blog someone mentioned something
    like "...only around 40 bugs left." Uh huh, sure...

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 29, 2006
    #11
  12. Sebastian Eichinger

    dorayme Guest

    In article <e5enhp$dst$01$-online.com>,
    Sebastian Eichinger <> wrote:

    >
    > http://blog.plastick.org/pages/klick.html
    >


    > But any thoughts or ideas are welcome!


    First thought: the design breaks at just a few clicks of the
    enlarge text command. Your text overflows their containers.
    Especially the calendar...

    What does all that javascript in your code actually do that is
    needed? As Mr Korpela has said, and I lend my considerable
    authority and reputation to second it, forget about javascript
    for the moment. Concentrate your efforts to make the site easy to
    use by people with all sorts of screens and eyesights.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 29, 2006
    #12
  13. dorayme wrote:
    >> But any thoughts or ideas are welcome!

    >
    > First thought: the design breaks at just a few clicks of the
    > enlarge text command. Your text overflows their containers.
    > Especially the calendar...



    Uh, thank you! As you can see i'm just playing around a little, and i
    never thought about this.

    But - how to get the larger-text-handling proper done?
    What can be done to avoid the messy content? As you see this blogware
    uses tables and divs which i used to create this "boxes" - is it
    possible to do this in a "dynamic" way, so that the layout will "rise"
    with the text?

    (Hope someone understands what i mean...)


    > Concentrate your efforts to make the site easy to
    > use by people with all sorts of screens and eyesights.


    Yes, i understand what you mean. But "easy to use" and "my thoughts" are
    sometimes total different.

    See, this is more a "private thing" than something public. I never
    learnt such things by visiting a seminar or reading a book or something
    - i'm just doing and watching, and by times i have some ideas what can
    be done next. In this moments - excuse - i dont care about the rest of
    the world, because there will always be a blind person browsing the web
    unable to read anything on this site because i forgot to put some
    audio-streams of the content on it.

    So, what i want to reach is a good 'middleway' (does this expression
    exist in english?) between a nice looking website (as i think, of
    course) with functions i want to have on it and accessibility with
    usual-used software.

    but thank you very much for your thoughts about it!

    And, i really hope i'll learn how to handle different font-sizes, this
    behaviour of the site really annoyes me...

    Greets,

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 30, 2006
    #13
  14. Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > You didn't solve the problem - you have just removed the small part of
    > the problem that bothered you. By the way, my browser (IE 7 beta)
    > signals JavaScript errors on the page. Haven't you tested the page with
    > script error reporting switched on?


    So, lets remember: my problem were the tooltips. Now i found a method to
    avoid them. In my way of thinking this means: i solved it ;)

    No, serious - do you have any other idea? Each one is welcome!

    So, let's explain something: I'm no web-developer. I never learnt html
    or css by visiting a seminar or reading a book. I'm just doing and
    watching, then cleaning some errors, playing around a little, and
    watching again. So: no - i never tested anything with "script error
    reporting". How should i when i barely understand what you're talking
    about? =)

    So, what matters? Is it just the IE (as usual... ;) ) or are there
    important errors i should have a look at? Then - how? Forgive me, but i
    don't want to install the IE7. Not as a beta, and not as a final.
    Because i just didn't need it.

    I'm sure there is a way to check the errors without, can you (or anybody
    else) help me to get this fixed?



    > Your page is a striking example of the problems people create when they
    > try to add "mouseover explanations" to things. Your special presentation
    > style uses horrendously small font with very poor contrast between
    > background and color. It's probably almost the worst you can do and
    > still preserve the illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you
    > can even yourself read it, or whether you just think so because you
    > remember what you have written.)


    No reason to get angry - that's how this "sounds"...

    And yes - my eyes sure aren't the best, but i can read this. Without any
    problems.

    I must say that you can be right - while i "tested" the page on
    differend screens and resolutions from 1024x768 to 1600x1200, i didn't
    since i made this popup-thing. I just hadn't the time to do, so far i
    can say only this: on 1024x768 it's readable very good.

    About the colors: the background is kind of "bright" and the text
    someting like "very dark" - what more contrast do you want?


    > The real problem that you should solve is that your link texts are
    > cryptic, apparently in an attempt to make them look artistic and cool
    > and enigmatic. But they are simply a mess, written in Europanto style
    > (an absurd mixture of European language).


    Of course it would be a solution to make language-portals. Strict-german
    and strict-english, maybe.

    But i guess this sould be my problem.

    Be sure: everyone who is supposed to visit this more privat than public
    page actually _can_ read and understand this.


    > If you can produce some visual art, do so, but don't play with links.
    > People who build an art gallery are not supposed to make the entrance
    > and the doorways and the signs so cryptic that visitors don't know
    > whether a door leads to a men's room, a ladies' room, a room with
    > paintings, or to the backyard.


    .... So you must be a programmer, or serious-minded webdeveloper, or
    something like this. Are you? ;)

    To pickup your example: What is wrong about a door completely designed
    by an artist, not even looking like a normal door, when it has the - for
    most people readable - designed text "men's room" on it?

    Must be a horror to you, but kind of something absolutely fascinating to
    me :)


    >> And, because i like such
    >> things: i wanted to customize the tooltips.

    >
    > Stop doing that in HTML authoring, unless you author for yourself only.
    > Customize your own browsing experience if you like.


    >>> Stop using JavaScript at least until you understand it.

    >>
    >> Why? What else then?

    >
    > Start from simple and logical HTML.


    >> Do i have to learn Javascript befor i'm allowed
    >> to create this thing?

    >
    > Yes. (Well, that's how things _should_ be, at least.)


    Those suggestions doesn't make any sense to me.

    In case of: "Huh! How can you say that! Die!"

    Why there are thousands of methods to customize web-content, when - as
    you say - it's "not allowed" to use them?

    Guess this is the different thinking. The difference between "Save the
    web-standards! Only use web-secure colors!" and "Oh, what does this code
    do..?"



    > Actually, for quite a many websites, it would be great improvement if
    > they were turned into plain text.


    .... are you kidding me? Have a look at your calendar, it's 2006! I would
    cancel the contract with my ISP if most websites only are written in
    plain text. For sure i'm not sorry about having an interest for some
    well-looking content-things, even if they will not work on lynx (or
    similar).

    You're shocking me. I'm really happy this moment that not each
    "webmaster" is thinking like you...


    > But your strawman arguments are boring...


    Could be. Could not be. Who knows, and - who cares?

    As i told you, im no web-developer. To me, creating something what
    pleases my mind is not a very easy thing. And it's much harder, well,
    sometimes nearly impossible, if i'd be forced to use only strict html or
    css, just the "secure tags" which will work on each browser. To me it
    seems like creating something "artful" working on each (_each_!) browser
    is nearly impossible.

    But that depends on what you'r thinking of, when you're thinking about
    something "artful", something "beautiful" - and for me, this would
    include the popup-tooltips we were usually talking about.

    Hey, because i forgot until now: don't care about the "cryptic linktext"
    - i'll show the visitor (if there is one...) the original url. in the
    tooltip. Beneath the text i added there. If you like that or not ;)

    So, back to this script-error... That's not nice, if using js, i guess
    at least it should work correct.

    Have nice days, and even if we are not totally agreeing with each other
    - thank you very much for your thoughts and your time for reading and
    answering! ;)

    Greets,

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 30, 2006
    #14
  15. Sebastian Eichinger

    Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, Sebastian Eichinger
    <> vouchsafed:

    > To pickup your example: What is wrong about a door completely designed
    > by an artist, not even looking like a normal door, when it has the -
    > for most people readable - designed text "men's room" on it?


    Imagine what would happen if even a few people mistook it for a urinal.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, May 30, 2006
    #15
  16. Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > It's probably almost the worst you can do and
    > still preserve the illusion that people can read it. (I wonder if you
    > can even yourself read it, or whether you just think so because you
    > remember what you have written.)


    Oh. Now i know what could have been annoying you. Because of i'm using
    FF, i didn't recognize the error, only happening in IE. The text- and
    the background-color were set allright, i "just" messed up the opacity
    by forgetting a zero - this tooltip-thing must habe been barely visible
    when using 9 instead of 90%...

    Yes - that would have been no good idea to leave it this way, i wonder
    how you could see the tooltip with this values at all...

    So, i'm still hoping to get some help about this error-reporting, maybe
    someone has a useful link for me?

    Nice days,

    Seb
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 31, 2006
    #16
  17. Neredbojias wrote:
    > To further the education of mankind, Sebastian Eichinger
    > <> vouchsafed:
    >
    >> To pickup your example: What is wrong about a door completely designed
    >> by an artist, not even looking like a normal door, when it has the -
    >> for most people readable - designed text "men's room" on it?

    >
    > Imagine what would happen if even a few people mistook it for a urinal.
    >


    I guess this would be a bigger problem than some "cryptic" links =)
     
    Sebastian Eichinger, May 31, 2006
    #17
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