A1 Triple Gold Star for Robin

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by Julia deSilva, Apr 27, 2004.

  1. Many Congratulations to Robin.

    How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to take such
    stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others have got themselves
    into similar situations in this NG and have ended up taking offence, being
    rude, and then getting plonked, or worse.

    What a guy ! <sigh>
    Julia deSilva, Apr 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. Julia deSilva

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "Jd" == Julia deSilva <> writes:

    Jd> Many Congratulations to Robin.

    Jd> How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to
    Jd> take such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others
    Jd> have got themselves into similar situations in this NG and have
    Jd> ended up taking offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or
    Jd> worse.

    he is too dumb to know better? notice he seems to think moronzilla has a
    clue.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
    Uri Guttman, Apr 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. Julia deSilva

    Robin Guest

    "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >>>>> "Jd" == Julia deSilva <> writes:

    >
    > Jd> Many Congratulations to Robin.
    >
    > Jd> How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to
    > Jd> take such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others
    > Jd> have got themselves into similar situations in this NG and have
    > Jd> ended up taking offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or
    > Jd> worse.
    >
    > he is too dumb to know better? notice he seems to think moronzilla has a
    > clue.



    hahaha....yeah, that's it. Who's moronzilla, can you point me in the
    direction of the post(s) I replied to or the information your refering to? I
    remember trawling this group two years ago and reading some posts by
    godzilla, is that who you mean?

    -Robin
    Robin, Apr 27, 2004
    #3
  4. Julia deSilva

    Robin Guest


    > Many Congratulations to Robin.
    >
    > How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to take such
    > stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others have got themselves
    > into similar situations in this NG and have ended up taking offence, being
    > rude, and then getting plonked, or worse.
    >
    > What a guy ! <sigh>



    Thanks julia! Much appreciated.
    -Robin
    Robin, Apr 27, 2004
    #4
  5. Also sprach Robin:

    > "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> >>>>> "Jd" == Julia deSilva <> writes:

    >>
    >> Jd> Many Congratulations to Robin.
    >>
    >> Jd> How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to
    >> Jd> take such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others
    >> Jd> have got themselves into similar situations in this NG and have
    >> Jd> ended up taking offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or
    >> Jd> worse.
    >>
    >> he is too dumb to know better? notice he seems to think moronzilla has a
    >> clue.

    >
    >
    > hahaha....yeah, that's it. Who's moronzilla, can you point me in the
    > direction of the post(s) I replied to or the information your refering to? I
    > remember trawling this group two years ago and reading some posts by
    > godzilla, is that who you mean?


    Yes, that's her. She's now writing under the alias Purl Gurl.

    Tassilo
    --
    $_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
    pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
    $_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
    Tassilo v. Parseval, Apr 27, 2004
    #5
  6. Purl Gurl <> wrote:

    > Nonetheless my
    > status is right up there with the best of Perl programmers,



    Bullshit.


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Tad McClellan, Apr 27, 2004
    #6
  7. Julia deSilva

    Tore Aursand Guest

    On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:33:03 -0700, Purl Gurl wrote:
    > I do not collect lick and stick gold stars. Nonetheless my status is
    > right up there with the best of Perl programmers,


    Where? I can't see you?! :)


    --
    Tore Aursand <>
    Tore Aursand, Apr 28, 2004
    #7
  8. Robin wrote:

    > site, but saying that cgi.pm is less functional than insecure cgi parse
    > code isn't kosher, at least not by my standards.


    What she actually said was that CGI.pm is slower, and as far as that goes
    she's right. It's a heavy weight module. A more modular approach, with CGI,
    HTML, and Cookie functions in separate modules, would have been better than
    the AllPurposeWebThing.pm that CGI.pm has grown into - but that's an old
    argument.

    The problem is that she was looking at CGI.pm vs. hand-rolled code in
    isolation, and that's simply not a realistic scenario. In any real-world
    app, the time spent processing the main body of the code will *completely*
    dwarf that spent parsing the form input.

    Just do the math.

    Let's say profiling (with Devel::DProf) shows you that 1% of your overall
    execution time is spent in CGI.pm, while 20% of it is spent in foo(). If
    you can improve the efficiency of foo() by just 3%, to 19.4% of the overall
    total, you've done more for the overall total than you would have by
    cutting the cost of CGI.pm in half. If you can cut the cost of foo() in
    half, you've done *far* more for the bottom line than *any* amount of work
    on CGI.pm could possibly do.

    In principle, we'd all be optimizing every last line of code to its peak
    efficiency. Unfortunately, we just don't have time for that, so we have to
    spend the time we do have where it will make the most difference.

    > At the same time she does have a lot of good stuff to say.


    She's funny, I'll give her that.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
    Sherm Pendley, Apr 28, 2004
    #8
  9. Sherm Pendley wrote:
    > Just do the math.
    >
    > Let's say profiling (with Devel::DProf) shows you that 1% of your
    > overall execution time is spent in CGI.pm, while 20% of it is spent
    > in foo(). If you can improve the efficiency of foo() by just 3%, to
    > 19.4% of the overall total, you've done more for the overall total
    > than you would have by cutting the cost of CGI.pm in half. If you
    > can cut the cost of foo() in half, you've done *far* more for the
    > bottom line than *any* amount of work on CGI.pm could possibly do.


    A benchmark I did showed that CGI.pm required about 0.2 seconds to
    load and parse a simple query string. Do you write CGI apps that take
    20 seconds to execute? I don't. And in that case your example is not
    realistic. CGI.pm's inefficiency is apparently worse than you thought.

    --
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson
    Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson, Apr 28, 2004
    #9
  10. Julia deSilva

    Robin Guest

    "Tassilo v. Parseval" <> wrote in message
    news:c6mf27$dgho4$-berlin.de...
    > Also sprach Robin:
    >
    > > "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> >>>>> "Jd" == Julia deSilva <> writes:
    > >>
    > >> Jd> Many Congratulations to Robin.
    > >>
    > >> Jd> How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to
    > >> Jd> take such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others
    > >> Jd> have got themselves into similar situations in this NG and have
    > >> Jd> ended up taking offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or
    > >> Jd> worse.
    > >>
    > >> he is too dumb to know better? notice he seems to think moronzilla has

    a
    > >> clue.

    > >
    > >
    > > hahaha....yeah, that's it. Who's moronzilla, can you point me in the
    > > direction of the post(s) I replied to or the information your refering

    to? I
    > > remember trawling this group two years ago and reading some posts by
    > > godzilla, is that who you mean?

    >
    > Yes, that's her. She's now writing under the alias Purl Gurl.


    oh, well in that case, I dunno...maybe I gave her too much credit when I
    first came here. I don't see anything wrong with her code, and i like her
    site, but saying that cgi.pm is less functional than insecure cgi parse code
    isn't kosher, at least not by my standards.
    At the same time she does have a lot of good stuff to say.
    -Robin
    Robin, Apr 28, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <c6n4rf$dcqs0$-berlin.de>,
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson <> wrote:
    :A benchmark I did showed that CGI.pm required about 0.2 seconds to
    :load and parse a simple query string. Do you write CGI apps that take
    :20 seconds to execute? I don't.

    You either:
    a) replace your equipment with faster equipment when you get close to
    the 20 second mark; or
    b) do not work with expanding amounts of data; or
    c) put strict limits on the amount of data that may be stored; or
    d) have hypo-sub-log time search routines that you should be sharing
    with the theoretical world.

    Also, e) you must either not be locking your data, or else you have
    worked out ways to guarantee that *all* simultaneous updates will be
    completed and the data unlocked in time to make your 20 second window.


    Sometimes there's just too much data to process in 20 seconds or less.
    --
    Preposterous!! Where would all the calculators go?!
    Walter Roberson, Apr 28, 2004
    #11
  12. Purl Gurl wrote:

    > A dynometer displays thirty percent of my Mako's horsepower
    > is consumed overcoming friction and inertial mass. So,
    > it doesn't matter my wheels are square because this
    > loss in efficiency because of my square wheels, is
    > nothing in comparsion to my overall horsepower lost
    > to all these big picture factors.


    Your example is exactly backwards. In any real-world situation, CGI.pm
    accounts for 10% or less of a script's overall execution time. Trying to
    optimize it is like waxing your square-wheeled 'vette in an attempt to
    reduce drag.

    Keep in mind, I'm not saying to ignore CGI.pm's weaknesses and use it out of
    dogma. All I'm saying is, don't try to prematurely optimize it. Profile
    your code to find out where the real bottlenecks are. Fix those, and
    profile the code again.

    Keep repeating the profile/optimize loop until your boss is screaming at you
    to quit being a perfectionist and ship the damn code already. In ten years
    of coding Perl for a living, I have yet to see CGI.pm make its way to the
    top of the bottleneck list before that happens.

    If it does happen, some day, that CGI.pm is the biggest bottleneck, then
    I'll worry about writing something faster.

    > Would you use CGI.pm to generate html code for a "hello world!" script?


    If I were interested in writing a contrived, unrealistic example that did
    nothing but "prove" a dubious point, I might do that.

    > Your logic is less than Vulcan ideal.


    Vulcans are fictional. Short deadlines, limited budgets, and greedy suits
    are real.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
    Sherm Pendley, Apr 28, 2004
    #12
  13. Julia deSilva

    Robin Guest

    "Purl Gurl" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Robin wrote:
    >
    > > Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:
    > > > Robin groveled and begged:
    > > > > Uri Guttman wrote:
    > > > > > Julia deSilva wrote:

    >
    > (snipped)
    >
    > > oh, well in that case, I dunno...maybe I gave her too much credit when I
    > > first came here. I don't see anything wrong with her code, and i like

    her
    > > site, but saying that cgi.pm is less functional than insecure cgi parse

    code
    > > isn't kosher, at least not by my standards.

    >
    >
    > Won't be long you will be another Perl wannabe groupie
    > bending the knee, genuflecting and slobbering before
    > this Perl Perl Land Cabal around here.
    >
    >
    > Purl Gurl


    Ok then.heheh...
    Robin
    Robin, Apr 28, 2004
    #13
  14. Purl Gurl <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:
    >
    > > Robin wrote:
    > > > Uri Guttman wrote:
    > > > > Julia deSilva wrote:

    >
    > (snipped)
    >
    > > > Who's moronzilla,

    >
    > > Yes, that's her. She's now writing under the alias Purl Gurl.

    >
    >
    > I do not collect lick and stick gold stars. Nonetheless my
    > status is right up there with the best of Perl programmers,
    > along with being amongst the best known Perl programmers,
    > whether it be fame or infamy.
    >
    > Shoot, I am even discussed on zdnet and slash dot org!
    >
    > * Mohammad Cassius Clay Ali voice *
    >
    > I am the greatest!
    >
    >
    > Purl Gurl * thinks Uri is a mere jabberwockey *


    I am truly amazed by your 1337 skillz. If you haven't already done
    this, you should make a fanclub for yourself.

    LuvU4eva,
    DNA.
    Daniel N. Andersen, Apr 28, 2004
    #14
  15. Walter Roberson wrote:
    > Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
    >> A benchmark I did showed that CGI.pm required about 0.2 seconds
    >> to load and parse a simple query string. Do you write CGI apps
    >> that take 20 seconds to execute? I don't.


    <snip>

    > Sometimes there's just too much data to process in 20 seconds or
    > less.


    Yes, *sometimes*. But a typical CGI application lets people click on
    links or buttons etc. that make the app display generated HTML pages,
    and *typically* the total execution time needs to be far, far less
    than that (or else the visitors go elsewhere). So, when discussing the
    significance of CGI.pm's (lack of) speed, you should reasonably do it
    in that context.

    --
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson
    Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson, Apr 28, 2004
    #15
  16. Julia deSilva

    Bernard R Guest

    "Julia deSilva" <> wrote in
    news:pdrjc.930$:

    > Many Congratulations to Robin.
    >
    > How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to take
    > such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others have got
    > themselves into similar situations in this NG and have ended up taking
    > offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or worse.
    >
    > What a guy ! <sigh>
    >
    >


    I was surprised to see robin still posting.

    I don't know why they persist, a troll or just stupid?


    I've noticed a pattern with people like Robin, they always think CGI .pm is
    too hard and try and make their own. They are always defensive too.
    Bernard R, Apr 28, 2004
    #16
  17. Julia deSilva

    Robin Guest

    "Bernard R" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94D9A8A2C96D3notrealexamplecome00@194.168.222.120...
    > "Julia deSilva" <> wrote in
    > news:pdrjc.930$:
    >
    > > Many Congratulations to Robin.
    > >
    > > How does this guy (or gal) do it, I mean, how is it possible to take
    > > such stick, stay cool and come back for more. Many others have got
    > > themselves into similar situations in this NG and have ended up taking
    > > offence, being rude, and then getting plonked, or worse.
    > >
    > > What a guy ! <sigh>
    > >
    > >

    >
    > I was surprised to see robin still posting.
    >
    > I don't know why they persist, a troll or just stupid?
    >
    >
    > I've noticed a pattern with people like Robin, they always think CGI .pm

    is
    > too hard and try and make their own. They are always defensive too.



    I've actually learned cgi.pm now. not to be defensive, but I started out
    with my own library and then used cgi.pm.
    _Robin
    Robin, Apr 28, 2004
    #17
  18. Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:

    > Yes, *sometimes*. But a typical CGI application lets people click on
    > links or buttons etc. that make the app display generated HTML pages,
    > and *typically* the total execution time needs to be far, far less
    > than that (or else the visitors go elsewhere).


    Your argument supports my own. If profiling shows that you're at a point
    where CGI.pm is your primary bottleneck, that *is* the appropriate time to
    consider either rolling your own or using something else. All I'm saying is
    that doing so before you reach that point is a textbook example of
    premature optimization, and should be avoided.

    > So, when discussing the significance of CGI.pm's (lack of) speed, you
    > should reasonably do it in that context.


    My main point is that it's inaccurate to simply assume that it will be a
    significant bottleneck in all cases. Profile the code and find out.

    sherm--

    --
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
    Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
    Sherm Pendley, Apr 28, 2004
    #18
  19. Julia deSilva

    Thomas Kratz Guest

    Purl Gurl wrote:

    > Sherm Pendley wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:

    >
    >
    > (snipped)
    >
    >
    >>>So, when discussing the significance of CGI.pm's (lack of) speed, you
    >>>should reasonably do it in that context.

    >
    >>My main point is that it's inaccurate to simply assume that it will be a
    >>significant bottleneck in all cases. Profile the code and find out.

    >
    >
    > Stein's CGI.pm is _always_ a significant bottleneck.


    Only for the real wizards: Spot the bottleneck!

    use CGI;
    sleep(3600);

    Thomas (couldn't resist)

    --
    open STDIN,"<&DATA";$=+=14;$%=50;while($_=(seek( #J~.> a>n~>>e~.......>r.
    STDIN,$:*$=+$,+$%,0),getc)){/\./&&last;/\w| /&&( #.u.t.^..oP..r.>h>a~.e..
    print,$_=$~);/~/&&++$:;/\^/&&--$:;/>/&&++$,;/</ #.>s^~h<t< ..~. ...c.^..
    &&--$,;$:%=4;$,%=23;$~=$_;++$i==1?++$,:_;}__END__#....>>e>r^..>l^...>k^..
    Thomas Kratz, Apr 28, 2004
    #19
  20. In article <>,
    Purl Gurl <> wrote:

    > Sherm Pendley wrote:
    >
    > > Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:

    >
    > (snipped)
    >
    > > > So, when discussing the significance of CGI.pm's (lack of) speed, you
    > > > should reasonably do it in that context.

    >
    > > My main point is that it's inaccurate to simply assume that it will be a
    > > significant bottleneck in all cases. Profile the code and find out.

    >
    > Stein's CGI.pm is _always_ a significant bottleneck.


    In that you generally seem to prefix "CGI.pm" with the name "Stein", you
    seem to be indicating that there are other CGI.pm's which we might be
    considering. Perhaps you could direct me to one of these other CGI.pm's
    so that I could see how it works?

    Many thanks,
    Ricky

    --
    Pukku
    Richard Morse, Apr 29, 2004
    #20
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