absolute positioning

Discussion in 'HTML' started by warth33@hotmail.com, Jan 1, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hello there

    I really dont know if this is the right place to ask this question.
    Anyway, I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    issue.

    Im developing a webpage. Its intended for high traffic. A popular
    concept. The page has been planned to be viewable in the same way in
    the most popular browsers, but only the most recent ones (IE >= 5.0,
    Firefox >=1.0, Opera (preferibly v 9.0), and maybe even on the mac
    plattform with latest safari and camino).

    So, given the requirements above: are there any disadvantages in making
    all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning? Yes, the
    importnt part is if these browsers supports the technique. I think all
    of the browsers mentioned above do it.

    But Im still wondering if it is really a good thing. Is it a bad habit?
    Waht do you think? Doing everything with absolute positioning is the
    ideal, given the page's nature, and maybe even the only way to do it.

    Take care

    Warth
     
    , Jan 1, 2007
    #1
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  2. cwdjrxyz Guest

    wrote:
    > Hello there
    >
    > I really dont know if this is the right place to ask this question.
    > Anyway, I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    > issue.
    >
    > Im developing a webpage. Its intended for high traffic. A popular
    > concept. The page has been planned to be viewable in the same way in
    > the most popular browsers, but only the most recent ones (IE >= 5.0,
    > Firefox >=1.0, Opera (preferibly v 9.0), and maybe even on the mac
    > plattform with latest safari and camino).
    >
    > So, given the requirements above: are there any disadvantages in making
    > all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning? Yes, the
    > importnt part is if these browsers supports the technique. I think all
    > of the browsers mentioned above do it.
    >
    > But Im still wondering if it is really a good thing. Is it a bad habit?
    > Waht do you think? Doing everything with absolute positioning is the
    > ideal, given the page's nature, and maybe even the only way to do it.


    You likely will get several strong opinions on this issue.

    As an example, my bank's website uses absolute positioning apparently
    set for a screen size less than used by most modern browsers. This
    results in an unused white area to the right of the screen on 1000+ px
    screens, but allows viewing by most computers set for a screen width of
    about 800 px without scrolling. It might be somewhat annoying for users
    with some of the smaller portable devices with narrow screens. But then
    many sites do not view well on such small devices for other reasons
    anyway.

    If you use javascript, it would be possible to correct sites such as my
    bank that use absolute positioning. You would find the screen width
    using script and then use script to write CSS to adjust for the screen
    width detected so that all width screens would have the screen nearly
    filled to the right. If script happens to be turned off, then you would
    just revert to how the site looks without this correction. Such
    corrections are more demanding of the programmer, and require a very
    good knowledge of both CSS and javascript.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Jan 1, 2007
    #2
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  3. wrote :
    > Hello there
    >
    > I really dont know if this is the right place to ask this question.
    > Anyway, I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    > issue.
    >
    > Im developing a webpage. Its intended for high traffic. A popular
    > concept. The page has been planned to be viewable in the same way in
    > the most popular browsers, but only the most recent ones (IE >= 5.0,


    IE5.x and IE6 can not be considered as recent browsers. IE6 was released
    in fall 2001 and has many CSS bugs related to abs. positioning.

    > Firefox >=1.0,


    Firefox 1.0 can not be considered as the most recent release of Firefox.

    > Opera (preferibly v 9.0), and maybe even on the mac
    > plattform with latest safari and camino).
    >
    > So, given the requirements above: are there any disadvantages in making
    > all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning? Yes, the
    > importnt part is if these browsers supports the technique. I think all
    > of the browsers mentioned above do it.
    >


    No. IE 5.x and IE 6 have numerous bugs related to abs. positioning.

    > But Im still wondering if it is really a good thing. Is it a bad habit?
    > Waht do you think? Doing everything with absolute positioning is the
    > ideal, given the page's nature, and maybe even the only way to do it.



    It's difficult to answer you without any details, concrete, specifics
    regarding the page itself. One thing that even IE7 has still not fixed
    is easy, convenient text selection (using either mouse or keyboard) for
    abs. positioned blocks. Personally, I feel abs. pos. is a safer choice
    than floats because IE7 still has many bugs related to floats, more than
    related to abs. pos. But then again, I have not seen your page... maybe
    your webpage wouldn't need abs. positioning at all..

    GĂ©rard
    --
    remove blah to email me
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Talbot?=, Jan 1, 2007
    #3
  4. Bergamot Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    > issue.


    I do not think this is a minor issue.

    > are there any disadvantages in making
    > all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning?


    I strongly recommend *not* using any type of positioning unless you
    fully understand what it does and the repercussions. There are too many
    sites out there now that think they can get pixel-perfect results across
    browsers by using absolutes, including positioning, box dimensions, and
    font sizes.

    Unless you really know what you are doing, it is a disaster waiting to
    happen. :(

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Jan 1, 2007
    #4
  5. Ed Mullen Guest

    Bergamot wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    >> issue.

    >
    > I do not think this is a minor issue.
    >
    >> are there any disadvantages in making
    >> all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning?

    >
    > I strongly recommend *not* using any type of positioning unless you
    > fully understand what it does and the repercussions. There are too many
    > sites out there now that think they can get pixel-perfect results across
    > browsers by using absolutes, including positioning, box dimensions, and
    > font sizes.
    >
    > Unless you really know what you are doing, it is a disaster waiting to
    > happen. :(
    >


    Agreed, pretty much. Although, the issue would be fairly well
    ameliorated by page authors taking the time to view their constructs in
    various browsers and at various resolutions. This will quickly show the
    pitfalls of any design choice.

    And, if a page author does not spend the time to do this, I have no time
    for them. They deserve what they reap.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    What's so great about sliced bread? Isn't the bread slicer really more
    impressive?
     
    Ed Mullen, Jan 2, 2007
    #5
  6. wrote:
    > Hello there


    Hi.

    > Im developing a webpage. Its intended for high traffic. A popular
    > concept. The page has been planned to be viewable in the same way in
    > the most popular browsers...


    Oh my...

    > So, given the requirements above: are there any disadvantages in making
    > all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning? Yes, the
    > importnt part is if these browsers supports the technique. I think all
    > of the browsers mentioned above do it.


    You can make it appear similar in most browsers. Most in this group
    will tell you it is a bad idea and it will never work. But I have a
    slightly different opinion.

    Take a look at your competition, then ask yourself these questions.
    What are they doing? Do they seem successful? Is the site an E
    commerce site or a site that advertises? What will someone do if they
    come to the site and it does not look exactly right? How wrong dose it
    look when it is not exactly right? If it looks wrong will it still get
    the point across? Will the customer still be able to navigate and do
    what you want them to do if it looks wrong?

    > But Im still wondering if it is really a good thing. Is it a bad habit?


    No one answer here. If you do it and your revenue goes up, then it was
    a good idea. If you do it and your revenue goes down, then it was a
    bad idea.

    > Waht do you think? Doing everything with absolute positioning is the
    > ideal, given the page's nature, and maybe even the only way to do it.


    I wouldn't do it. Too much of a headache and way too much work, and
    you can make it look pretty similar without using absolute positioning.

    > Take care


    No.... It is too late for me. You take care...
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 2, 2007
    #6
  7. Guest

    Hello guys, and thank you for the answers.

    I will take Travis post for continuing the discussion.

    An important thing is about: is it possible to do it without absolute
    positioning? I dont know it right now. I can guess that there are
    certain designs that impossibly can be rendered without making use of
    absolute positioning. Either partially or totally. And I think its my
    case. Just think for example elements that move across the screen
    following dynamically, and all the time different, x and y.

    Many answers focused on the fact that "it can look badly in other
    browsers/at other resolutions".
    yes, it is a big issue. But, on the other hand, lets say you do the
    following:

    You use only absolut positioning.
    You test the page at all possible resolutions (i.e. the most common
    over 1024px width)
    You test the page in those browsers you think are worth to be supported
    (a suggestion could be: ie>=5, ff >=1.0, opera >=9.0, safari (1.2 ?) ).

    When you have done all that, and checked that only javascript and
    xmlrequest (ajax) enabled browsers are allowed to view the page, then:
    what more?

    Yes, it is a tedious task, at least. And it will require a lot of work.
    Everybody agrees on this.

    But this was not the point. The point is: if all the above requirements
    have been met, do you think I am doing the right thing?

    warth
     
    , Jan 2, 2007
    #7
  8. wrote:
    > Yes, it is a tedious task, at least. And it will require a lot of work.
    > Everybody agrees on this.
    > But this was not the point. The point is: if all the above requirements
    > have been met, do you think I am doing the right thing?


    Who knows. It depends on the site, but probably not
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 2, 2007
    #8
  9. Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, vouchsafed:

    > Hello there
    >
    > I really dont know if this is the right place to ask this question.
    > Anyway, I would like to hear the opinion of other users about a minor
    > issue.
    >
    > Im developing a webpage. Its intended for high traffic. A popular
    > concept. The page has been planned to be viewable in the same way in
    > the most popular browsers, but only the most recent ones (IE >= 5.0,
    > Firefox >=1.0, Opera (preferibly v 9.0), and maybe even on the mac
    > plattform with latest safari and camino).
    >
    > So, given the requirements above: are there any disadvantages in making
    > all the page completly bases on the css absolut positioning? Yes, the
    > importnt part is if these browsers supports the technique. I think all
    > of the browsers mentioned above do it.
    >
    > But Im still wondering if it is really a good thing. Is it a bad habit?
    > Waht do you think? Doing everything with absolute positioning is the
    > ideal, given the page's nature, and maybe even the only way to do it.


    Absolute positioning should be used as little as possible. Most of the
    time it isn't needed, anyway.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
     
    Neredbojias, Jan 3, 2007
    #9
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