Accessibility

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Chris, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. Chris

    Chris Guest

    I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this? Any
    general pointers to resources on accessibility would be great also.
    Chris, Jul 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. On Sat, 15 Jul 2006, Chris wrote:

    > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen
    > readers and text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to
    > do this?


    The *best* way is to get some screen readers, speaking browsers etc.
    but they cost real money (in some cases, hair-curlingly so).

    If you want a low-cost assessment, you could download the Windows
    version of Opera and enable its voice features (causes an additional
    download). Support is only offered at the moment for US-English
    language under Windows.

    Then you'd have:

    1. Opera's View> Style> Emulate text browser

    2. Opera's speaking features ("v" keycommand to speak the selection;
    ctl/A then v will select the whole page then speak it).

    I'd rate it as pretty useful, but not to be taken as the whole story.

    Opera has some other useful emulation modes.

    If you're in a position to install a version of lynx and/or elinks
    then it can help, but don't assume that all speaking browsers behave
    in the same way as might be deduced from Lynx.

    There used to be a free 30day trial of IBM HPR, but the terms have
    changed now. Might be worth taking a look anyway.

    > Any general pointers to resources on accessibility would be great
    > also.


    That's a moving target. The first edition of the WAI guidelines
    contain some good material, but several pieces of advice on what to do
    "until user agents" get better, are best crossed out as they can cause
    more trouble than they avoid.

    http://www.w3.org/WAI/ , of course.

    The second version has been extensively overhauled and restructured,
    but it's early days to rate it properly.

    Above all, if you are genuinely interested in accessibility then you
    need to spend time on the *subjective* aspects. There are by-rote
    checkers that will report on the *objective* guidelines, but you need
    to understand how to respond to those reports, or else the fixes can
    make things worse rather than better. And I don't only mean choosing
    absurd "alt" texts for images.

    good luck
    Alan J. Flavell, Jul 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Alan J. Flavell" <> wrote:

    > > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen
    > > readers and text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to
    > > do this?

    >
    > The *best* way is to get some screen readers, speaking browsers etc.
    > but they cost real money (in some cases, hair-curlingly so).
    >
    > If you want a low-cost assessment, you could download the Windows
    > version of Opera and enable its voice features (causes an additional
    > download). Support is only offered at the moment for US-English
    > language under Windows.


    Anyone use a low cost solution to this question for Mac?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 15, 2006
    #3
  4. In article
    <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > Anyone use a low cost solution to this question for Mac?


    After reading Mr. Flavell's post and wondering the same thing, I
    remembered that Macs have speech capabilities installed.
    <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1722.html>
    is probably not what you're looking for. I haven't tried it since I
    don't run 10.4. It certainly isn't geared toward HTML but text in
    general. I don't think there'd be any inflection if it worked at all.
    But then I don't know. Go for it!

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jul 16, 2006
    #4
  5. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <-sjc.supernews.net>,
    Leonard Blaisdell <> wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    > > Anyone use a low cost solution to this question for Mac?

    >
    > After reading Mr. Flavell's post and wondering the same thing, I
    > remembered that Macs have speech capabilities installed.
    > <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1722.html>
    > is probably not what you're looking for. I haven't tried it since I
    > don't run 10.4. It certainly isn't geared toward HTML but text in
    > general. I don't think there'd be any inflection if it worked at all.
    > But then I don't know. Go for it!
    >
    > leo


    Yes, I know about this but would bet quids it simply would not
    work on a web page well. I think I tried it once?

    Hey Leo, and Sally, discovered a little something tucked away in
    the Mac X sys this morning...

    Select a word, press command option D and a little pop-down
    dictionary field comes up, you need to enable this in the
    keyboard sys prefs. You can even scroll it and command for the
    full dic to come up.

    (... unfortunately.... er... it does not work in MT. But, think
    positive, it sure does in Mail and Safari...)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 16, 2006
    #5
  6. Chris

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this? Any
    > general pointers to resources on accessibility would be great also.

    Well, a URL might help.
    I myself use Jaws For Windows V 5.0 but a lot of other vision impaired
    people use differing software, the online checkers can help, but real
    users is about the only decent check.
    Bare in mind, that ScreenReeders only read the HTML (I am not sure
    about the voice / Aurel) parts of CSS. I would say that later V's V 7
    of Jaws for example might read the voice propities of CSS, though I am
    not sure how useful they would be to a person useing a ScreenReader.

    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
    Chaddy2222, Jul 16, 2006
    #6
  7. On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:54:47 +0100, dorayme wrote
    (in article <>):

    > In article
    > <-sjc.supernews.net>,
    > Leonard Blaisdell <> wrote:
    >
    >> In article
    >> <>,
    >> dorayme <> wrote:
    >>

    <snip>
    >
    > Hey Leo, and Sally, discovered a little something tucked away in
    > the Mac X sys this morning...
    >
    > Select a word, press command option D and a little pop-down
    > dictionary field comes up, you need to enable this in the
    > keyboard sys prefs. You can even scroll it and command for the
    > full dic to come up.
    >
    > (... unfortunately.... er... it does not work in MT. But, think
    > positive, it sure does in Mail and Safari...)


    Doesn't work in much else though :-(




    --
    Sally in Shropshire, UK
    bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
    Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
    http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk
    Sally Thompson, Jul 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Sally Thompson <> wrote:

    >
    > > Select a word, press command option D and a little pop-down
    > > dictionary field comes up, you need to enable this in the
    > > keyboard sys prefs. You can even scroll it and command for the
    > > full dic to come up.
    > >
    > > (... unfortunately.... er... it does not work in MT. But, think
    > > positive, it sure does in Mail and Safari...)

    >
    > Doesn't work in much else though :-(


    er yes, it only works in some prgms (control command D I should
    have said, option command D toggles the silly dock on and off.
    God, I am even getting used to this dicky dock thing... I think
    the Mac X system was originally made with Roger Rabbit in mind as
    the user model. There must be a whole lot of Roger in all of us...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 17, 2006
    #8
  9. Chris wrote:
    > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?


    Yes, make your page nothing but text. You wouldn't want to lose the 2
    or 3 blind people that might visit your site...
    Travis Newbury, Jul 17, 2006
    #9
  10. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:

    > Chris wrote:
    > > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    > > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?

    >
    > Yes, make your page nothing but text. You wouldn't want to lose the 2
    > or 3 blind people that might visit your site...


    Geez Travis...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Chris

    Steve Pugh Guest

    dorayme <> wrote:
    >In article
    ><>,
    > "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Chris wrote:
    >> > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    >> > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?

    >>
    >> Yes, make your page nothing but text. You wouldn't want to lose the 2
    >> or 3 blind people that might visit your site...

    >
    >Geez Travis...


    Sometimes I wish Travis would be like this in all his posts. Then I
    could just killfile him as a total pillock and ignore him. But
    sometimes he makes halfway decent posts that keep him just outside of
    the killfile.

    Steve
    --
    "Grab reality by the balls and squeeze." - Tempus Thales

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Jul 17, 2006
    #11
  12. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Steve Pugh <> wrote:

    > dorayme <> wrote:
    > >In article
    > ><>,
    > > "Travis Newbury" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Chris wrote:
    > >> > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers
    > >> > and
    > >> > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?
    > >>
    > >> Yes, make your page nothing but text. You wouldn't want to lose the 2
    > >> or 3 blind people that might visit your site...

    > >
    > >Geez Travis...

    >
    > Sometimes I wish Travis would be like this in all his posts. Then I
    > could just killfile him as a total pillock and ignore him. But
    > sometimes he makes halfway decent posts that keep him just outside of
    > the killfile.
    >
    > Steve


    It is a delicate balance. Have you taken into account that he
    voted for the mother (so to speak) of all pillocks, George Bush?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 18, 2006
    #12
  13. "dorayme" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > Steve Pugh <> wrote:
    > It is a delicate balance. Have you taken into account that he
    > voted for the mother (so to speak) of all pillocks, George Bush?



    Did he say/write that he voted for George Bush?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com
    Un italiano che vive in Svezia
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 18, 2006
    #13
  14. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article <m6Xug.9666$>,
    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:

    > "dorayme" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > Steve Pugh <> wrote:
    > > It is a delicate balance. Have you taken into account that he
    > > voted for the mother (so to speak) of all pillocks, George Bush?

    >
    >
    > Did he say/write that he voted for George Bush?


    YES! YES, HE DID!

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 18, 2006
    #14
  15. dorayme wrote:
    > > > I want to check my css layout renders OK for people using screen readers and
    > > > text only browsers. Can anyone recommend the best way to do this?

    > > Yes, make your page nothing but text. You wouldn't want to lose the 2
    > > or 3 blind people that might visit your site...

    > Geez Travis...


    Yea, I know, that was un-called for...
    Travis Newbury, Jul 18, 2006
    #15
  16. dorayme wrote:
    > > Did he say/write that he voted for George Bush?

    > YES! YES, HE DID!


    Voted for? Hell I campaigned for him!
    Travis Newbury, Jul 18, 2006
    #16
  17. "Travis Newbury" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > dorayme wrote:
    > > > Did he say/write that he voted for George Bush?

    > > YES! YES, HE DID!

    >
    > Voted for? Hell I campaigned for him!


    Were you paid to campaign or just did it because you felt like doing that?
    Are you satisfied with what he has done during the first and so far during
    the latter mandate?
    Why yes or why not?


    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com
    Write in peace for peace
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Chris

    dorayme Guest

    In article <e8dvg.9762$>,
    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:

    > Were you paid to campaign or just did it because you felt like doing that?
    > Are you satisfied with what he has done during the first and so far during
    > the latter mandate?
    > Why yes or why not?


    Yeah Travis! Explain that!

    Eliza

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 19, 2006
    #18
  19. Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    > > Voted for? Hell I campaigned for him!

    > Were you paid to campaign or just did it because you felt like doing that?


    Because I felt like it. I am very conservitive.

    > Are you satisfied with what he has done during the first and so far during
    > the latter mandate?


    No I am not satisfied with what he has done. I think he should be a
    bit harder. I think we should be like the terrorist and not follow any
    rules when it comes to war. I think if making someone stand in their
    underwear for 48 hours get them to talk, then so be it, make them
    stand. I think most other governements secretly support our war on
    terror, but are willing to let the US take care of the problem.

    I think the economy is doing fine dispite the oil issues. I think we
    should lock down our borders. I think we should punish companies that
    hire illegal aliens. I think our tax system is completely unfair to
    the middle class and upper class. I don't think I should have to give
    away 33% of my anual salary to support lazy people. I think we need to
    improve our inner city schools. I think we should get away from
    Affirmitive action.

    Did that answer your question?
    Travis Newbury, Jul 19, 2006
    #19
  20. "Travis Newbury" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    > > > Voted for? Hell I campaigned for him!

    > > Were you paid to campaign or just did it because you felt like doing

    that?
    >
    > Because I felt like it. I am very conservitive.


    Did you mean "conservative"?

    > > Are you satisfied with what he has done during the first and so far

    during
    > > the latter mandate?

    >
    > No I am not satisfied with what he has done. I think he should be a
    > bit harder. I think we should be like the terrorist and not follow any
    > rules when it comes to war. I think if making someone stand in their
    > underwear for 48 hours get them to talk, then so be it, make them
    > stand. I think most other governements secretly support our war on
    > terror, but are willing to let the US take care of the problem.


    Well, it seems as there are people who are not satisfied with Bush because
    he would have not been hard enough in their opinions and other people who
    might be unsatisfied because he did not do much to avoid wars.......during
    the time of his presidencies....
    Are there still people who support him? Does the majority of Americans
    support him or not?

    > I think the economy is doing fine dispite the oil issues. I think we
    > should lock down our borders.




    I think we should punish companies that
    > hire illegal aliens.


    Aliens?
    One way native Americans
    might be considered as the only ones who are not "aliens" in the USA.....
    How many Apaches live in America nowadays?

    I think our tax system is completely unfair to
    > the middle class and upper class. I don't think I should have to give
    > away 33% of my anual salary to support lazy people. I think we need to
    > improve our inner city schools. I think we should get away from
    > Affirmitive action.
    >
    > Did that answer your question?


    To some extent. It says that you are not satisfied with him, anyway.
    If there had been elections today would you have voted for him or for whom
    else?

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Write in peace for peace
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 19, 2006
    #20
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