Accomodating Obsolete Browsers -- How2?

J

John McGaw

I'm almost physically sick -- I've spent some considerable time updating my
personal website and dragging it kicking and screaming into the XHTML 1.1
"pure" CSS realm. I was really happy about the results after extensive
testing with all the modern browsers I could get my hands on since in every
one of them the appearance was virtually identical.

Then, on a whim, I downloaded and installed NS 4.9 and looked at it.
HORRORS! How could anything be that bad?

Does anyone have an online source of information that might allow me to make
the site, if not the same, at least readable with old NS? Without doing
damage to my modernization efforts?

You can see what is happening at http://johnmcgaw.com/testsite/index.html .
TIA
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com
 
A

altamir

Then, on a whim, I downloaded and installed NS 4.9 and looked at it.
HORRORS! How could anything be that bad?

Does anyone have an online source of information that might allow me
to make the site, if not the same, at least readable with old NS?
Without doing damage to my modernization efforts?

You can see what is happening at
http://johnmcgaw.com/testsite/index.html . TIA
Click to expand...

This is what you can do:

<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css" media="all" />
or
<style type="text/css">@import "style.css";</style>

and NS4.x won't see any CSS

See also http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/
 
P

PeterMcC

John said:
I'm almost physically sick -- I've spent some considerable time
updating my personal website and dragging it kicking and screaming
into the XHTML 1.1 "pure" CSS realm. I was really happy about the
results after extensive testing with all the modern browsers I could
get my hands on since in every one of them the appearance was
virtually identical.

Then, on a whim, I downloaded and installed NS 4.9 and looked at it.
HORRORS! How could anything be that bad?

Does anyone have an online source of information that might allow me
to make the site, if not the same, at least readable with old NS?
Without doing damage to my modernization efforts?

You can see what is happening at
http://johnmcgaw.com/testsite/index.html . TIA
Click to expand...

Have a look at the @import method
http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/bonus/trick-hide.html
 
K

kayodeok

I'm almost physically sick -- I've spent some considerable time
updating my personal website and dragging it kicking and
screaming into the XHTML 1.1 "pure" CSS realm. I was really
happy about the results after extensive testing with all the
modern browsers I could get my hands on since in every one of
them the appearance was virtually identical.

Then, on a whim, I downloaded and installed NS 4.9 and looked at
it. HORRORS! How could anything be that bad?

Does anyone have an online source of information that might
allow me to make the site, if not the same, at least readable
with old NS? Without doing damage to my modernization efforts?
Click to expand...

If the site is well structured, then Netscape 4.x users will still
be able to see and navigate the content when you hide the
stylesheet... though I have to add that Netscape 4.x users must be
used to seeing broken pages by now.

How to hide CSS from buggy browsers
http://w3development.de/css/hide_css_from_browsers/
 
J

John McGaw

altamir said:
This is what you can do:

<link rel="stylesheet" href="style.css" type="text/css" media="all" />
or
<style type="text/css">@import "style.css";</style>

and NS4.x won't see any CSS

See also http://centricle.com/ref/css/filters/
Click to expand...

I am presently using the <link.../> version as you show but don't use the
media="all". I take it that this is what keeps the old NS browsers from
seeing the CSS?
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com
 
A

altamir

I am presently using the <link.../> version as you show but don't use the
media="all". I take it that this is what keeps the old NS browsers from
seeing the CSS?
Click to expand...

Yes.

I also wonder if it works for IE4.
 
S

Steve R.

John McGaw wrote in message ...
I'm almost physically sick -- I've spent some considerable time updating
my personal website and dragging it kicking and screaming .....
Click to expand...

You've done one hell of a job there.

Just forget the obsolete browsers. 98% of people using *popular*
browsers will be able to see it :~)

Folks with obsolete browsers have difficulty in viewing most things,
so they will be used to problems anyway :~(
 
L

Leif K-Brooks

Steve said:
Just forget the obsolete browsers. 98% of people using *popular*
browsers will be able to see it :~)
Click to expand...

Is the money of people with obsolete browsers invalid?
 
S

Steve R.

Leif K-Brooks wrote in message ...
Is the money of people with obsolete browsers invalid?
Click to expand...

2% - who worries? If they haven't got the cash to upgrade
they ain't gonna spend it on the web :~)
 
M

Mark Parnell

2% - who worries? If they haven't got the cash to upgrade
they ain't gonna spend it on the web :~)
Click to expand...

Since when does it cost money to upgrade your browser (unless you are
buying Opera, of course)?
 
P

pragma

John McGaw said:
I'm almost physically sick -- I've spent some considerable time updating my
personal website and dragging it kicking and screaming into the XHTML 1.1
"pure" CSS realm.
http://johnmcgaw.com/testsite/index.html
Click to expand...

Not quite :)

If you're using XHTML 1.1 you are required to send a text/xml+xhtml
content-type header. A text/html header to make the browser interpret
the code as plain old HTML4 is not allowed anymore.

With XHTML 1.0 a text/html content type is optional though the use of a
proper xhtml type is encouraged.

Before you try your new pages with the correct content type in MSIE have
a large brandy on standby ;-)

'Real' XHTML is years away from being a practical option for most authors
and it isn't NS4 that's going to be the problem. It might be advisable to
use a XHTML 1.0 doctype, even if you want to continue validating to the
1.1 spec.
 
P

pragma

NOSPAM said:
Leif K-Brooks wrote in message ...

2% - who worries?
Click to expand...

Depends what 2% is. The problem with percentages is that they're
relative. 2% of 100,000 hits is still a lot of people.

If they haven't got the cash to upgrade
they ain't gonna spend it on the web :~)
Click to expand...

In my experience, having no money or a slow machine is rarely the reason
people still use NS4. There are other browsers that would run just as
comfortably and give them a better web experience. Many people just don't
know any better and it's naive people who are often the easiest to
separate from their cash ;)

Last year I saw someone from 808 State (a kind of techno-ish band) post a
message saying they were still using NS2 because he "didn't know there was
a new one out". There are a lot of consumers who pay no attention to things
like upgrades because they see computers and the web as something like a TV
but a bit more fancy, even if they're not technophobes.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

pragma said:
If you're using XHTML 1.1 you are required to send a text/xml+xhtml
content-type header.
Click to expand...

Really? You're required to send a silly unregistered MIME type that
doesn't work in any browsers at all?

I think I'll stick with application/xhtml+xml.
 
K

kayodeok

In my experience, having no money or a slow machine is rarely
the reason people still use NS4. There are other browsers that
would run just as comfortably and give them a better web
experience. Many people just don't know any better and it's
naive people who are often the easiest to separate from their
cash ;)
Click to expand...

I have been unable to locate the link but I once read that the
proportion of Netscape 4.x users is higher

1. In third world countries because the browsers are usually
donated or come with donated PCs and the cost of downloading a new
browser in those countries is too high.

2. Universities tend to stick with Netscape 4.x because they do not
have the staff to upgrade all copies of the browsers on all PCs
(actually I think this explanation is from Alan Flavell over at
CIWAH).
 
D

Dylan Parry

Mark said:
Since when does it cost money to upgrade your browser (unless you are
buying Opera, of course)?
Click to expand...

If you are on a dialup paying by the minute, then upgrading a browser can
cost a hell of a lot.
 
M

Mark Parnell

If you are on a dialup paying by the minute, then upgrading a browser can
cost a hell of a lot.
Click to expand...

They come for free on the cover CD of most computer magazines. OK, so
you've got to buy the magazine, but most computer users will do that at
some point anyway. Or they can get a friend not paying by the minute[1]
to download it for them and burn it to a CD.

There are various reasons for people not upgrading their browsers. The
cost involved, while it may be the reason for a few, is not IMHO
anywhere near the most common reason.

[1] Does anyone actually pay by the minute these days, anyway? ;-)
 

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