After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

Discussion in 'Java' started by mttc, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. mttc

    mttc Guest

    I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?
     
    mttc, Mar 26, 2008
    #1
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  2. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    mttc wrote:
    > I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    > Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    > It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    > JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    > So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?


    NetBeans is the best that I have tried. What did you not like about it?

    The Java world is different than MS. I don't think you'll find a Visual
    Studio clone to ease your transition to Java. Best to pick one IDE that
    seems good then try to learn it's features.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 26, 2008
    #2
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  3. mttc

    mttc Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if haveAnother beter IDE?

    On 26 Mar, 18:24, Mark Space <> wrote:
    > mttc wrote:
    > > I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    > > Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    > > It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    > > JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    > > So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?

    >
    > NetBeans is the best that I have tried.  What did you not like about it?
    >
    > The Java world is different than MS.  I don't think you'll find a Visual
    > Studio clone to ease your transition to Java.  Best to pick one IDE that
    > seems good then try to learn it's features.


    the VB on VS is perfect check syntax while wrriting and rpid coding by
    formatting the text automaticly with hard indented. it's simple that
    the coding is fasting then NetBean.

    I see that you agree that NetBean is the best. So my wonder why all
    guys talking about Eclipse?
    (In other side I very like the Eclipse that not need Installation)
     
    mttc, Mar 26, 2008
    #3
  4. mttc

    CK Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Another beter IDE?

    Words to the wise, Mark Space <> wrote:

    >mttc wrote:
    >> I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    >> Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    >> It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    >> JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    >> So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?

    >
    >NetBeans is the best that I have tried. What did you not like about it?


    Try IntelliJ.

    --
    Claus Dragon <>
    =(UDIC)=
    d++ e++ T--
    K1!2!3!456!7!S a29
    "Coffee is a mocker. So, I am going to mock."

    - Me, lately.
     
    CK, Mar 26, 2008
    #4
  5. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    mttc wrote:

    >
    > the VB on VS is perfect check syntax while wrriting and rpid coding by
    > formatting the text automaticly with hard indented. it's simple that
    > the coding is fasting then NetBean.


    NetBeans does this too.

    Also, please learn to spell. And to use grammar.

    >
    > I see that you agree that NetBean is the best. So my wonder why all
    > guys talking about Eclipse?


    They aren't.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 26, 2008
    #5
  6. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    CK wrote:
    > Words to the wise, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >
    >> mttc wrote:
    >>> I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    >>> Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    >>> It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    >>> JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    >>> So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?

    >> NetBeans is the best that I have tried. What did you not like about it?

    >
    > Try IntelliJ.


    Could you tell me what you think IntelliJ does better than NetBeans?
    (Or what IntelliJ does well, if you don't know NetBeans.) I like NB a
    lot but I'm always on the look out for productivity enhancers.

    How does IntelliJ work for things other than straight Java? Does it work
    for C, C++ and PHP? Does it have templates for projects like plain web
    apps (JSP/Servlets), Struts, JSF? What about adding other downloaded
    objects like Dojo and JMaki to a web app?

    I haven't tried any code weaving with NetBeans but that might be next.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 26, 2008
    #6
  7. mttc

    Roedy Green Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Another beter IDE?

    On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 08:43:16 -0700 (PDT), mttc <>
    wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

    >I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    >Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    >It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    >JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    >So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?


    the one I use is called Intellij Idea.

    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/intellij.html
    --

    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    The Java Glossary
    http://mindprod.com
     
    Roedy Green, Mar 26, 2008
    #7
  8. Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Another beter IDE?

    mttc wrote:
    > I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    > Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    > It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    > JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    > So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?


    Intellij IDEA. It doesn't have all of the fancy code-generation bells
    and whistles that VS has, but for normal development and debugging,
    it's stabler than VS, and has more nice features. I used to be a vi +
    compiler guy, but IDEA has converted me.
     
    Mike Schilling, Mar 26, 2008
    #8
  9. Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    mttc wrote:
    > On 26 Mar, 18:24, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >> mttc wrote:
    >>> I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    >>> Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and


    That's odd, I've never had Eclipse crash when using recent versions.
    Perhaps you used some unstable plugins?

    >>> It's not campareable with VS.


    In what way?

    have you read these?
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/os-eclipse-visualstudio/
    http://msmvps.com/blogs/jon.skeet/archive/2005/12/22/79631.aspx

    >>> I try also Netbean. but I think that
    >>> JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    >>> So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?

    >> NetBeans is the best that I have tried. What did you not like about it?
    >>
    >> The Java world is different than MS. I don't think you'll find a Visual
    >> Studio clone to ease your transition to Java. Best to pick one IDE that
    >> seems good then try to learn it's features.

    >
    > the VB on VS is perfect check syntax while wrriting and rpid coding by
    > formatting the text automaticly with hard indented. it's simple that
    > the coding is fasting then NetBean.


    Eclipse too does
    - syntax checking as you type.
    - configurable automatic indentation as you type.
    - completion of braces {} as you type.
    - pops-up documentation as mouse hovers over class or method name.
    - auto-completion of class/method/variable names (Ctrl+Space)
    - auto-completion of method argument lists (ditto)
    - source reformatting (Ctrl+Shift+F}
    - auto generation of imports (Ctrl+Shift+O)
    - generates method stubs when you override an abstract class or
    implement an interface. (Ctrl+1);
    - and lots more.

    The re-factoring is pretty good too. It even spell-checks your comments
    as you type. Heck it compiles as you type.

    I imagine Netbeans is equally nifty.

    >
    > I see that you agree that NetBean is the best. So my wonder why all
    > guys talking about Eclipse?


    Not everyone talks about Eclipse, it and Netbeans appear to me to be
    about equally popular, based on comments in this newsgroup. According to
    Google groups, in the last year Netbeans was mentioned 1030 times,
    Eclipse 1920. I don't think these figures are significant though.
     
    RedGrittyBrick, Mar 26, 2008
    #9
  10. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    RedGrittyBrick wrote:

    > Eclipse too does


    That's pretty much NetBeans feature list also. Both of these programs
    seem very similar in basic editing capabilities. Usually there is one
    crucial plug-in for some type of specific task that one IDE has that the
    other lacks, which determines perference.

    > Not everyone talks about Eclipse, it and Netbeans appear to me to be
    > about equally popular, based on comments in this newsgroup. According to


    My impression as well. At least, most folks seem over the editor wars.
    The OP's comments don't seem to indicate that he investigated either
    very well.

    IntelliJ so far looks to me like one pays more, and gets less. I guess
    there may be features I'm missing.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 26, 2008
    #10
  11. mttc

    Lew Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    RedGrittyBrick wrote:
    >> Eclipse too does


    Mark Space wrote:
    > That's pretty much NetBeans feature list also. Both of these programs
    > seem very similar in basic editing capabilities. Usually there is one
    > crucial plug-in for some type of specific task that one IDE has that the
    > other lacks, which determines perference.


    NetBeans and Eclipse (and their commercial offspring) are similar in feature
    sets, but very different in style. Likely one or the other will suit one's
    style better.

    Eclipse drives me crazy; I despise it, and the commercial products based on
    it. That does not make them bad products, only products that I, personally,
    despise. [1]

    I have been using WebSphere Application Developer, Rational Application
    Developer and other Rational products for years, all Eclipse-powered. Not
    just a little, either - I live inside these products all day long at work.

    I love NetBeans. I also love sushi and spinach, products many people hate.

    Plugins have absolutely nothing to do with my preference. It's the
    fundamental style of the IDEs. Eclipse does too much under the hood that it
    won't let me override, it's too removed from Ant-based builds, and it's too
    far removed from the file system. NetBeans seems to me more straightforward,
    easier to lay out the various panes, and to impose less IDE-specific garbage
    on a project, so that it fits better with group build strategies. It's also
    easier to separate out the IDE-specific garbage from NB projects than from
    Eclipse.

    That said, Eclipse is extremely feature-rich and extensible, and integrates
    quite well with its enterprise server testbeds.

    [1] All right, yes, it makes them bad products.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Mar 27, 2008
    #11
  12. mttc

    EricF Guest

    In article <Z6xGj.2648$>, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >CK wrote:
    >> Words to the wise, Mark Space <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> mttc wrote:
    >>>> I use with VS2005 of microsoft. I want to move to JAVA. bu I try
    >>>> Eclipse and I disappointment. the IDE is crash from time totime and
    >>>> It's not campareable with VS. I try also Netbean. but I think that
    >>>> JAVA worth for beter IDE.
    >>>> So what is the best IDE (even commercial)?
    >>> NetBeans is the best that I have tried. What did you not like about it?

    >>
    >> Try IntelliJ.

    >
    >Could you tell me what you think IntelliJ does better than NetBeans?
    >(Or what IntelliJ does well, if you don't know NetBeans.) I like NB a
    >lot but I'm always on the look out for productivity enhancers.
    >
    >How does IntelliJ work for things other than straight Java? Does it work
    >for C, C++ and PHP? Does it have templates for projects like plain web
    >apps (JSP/Servlets), Struts, JSF? What about adding other downloaded
    >objects like Dojo and JMaki to a web app?
    >
    >I haven't tried any code weaving with NetBeans but that might be next.


    I much prefer IntelliJ over Eclipse, enough to pay for it. I haven't looked at
    NetBeans in quite a while so can't compare the 2.

    IntelliJ is not a general IDE. It was created in Java for Java. It is starting
    to support some of the newer dynamic languages; the newest versions support
    Groovy and Rails.

    It has templates for web apps, j2ee, struts and jsf support. Dunno about Dojo
    or JMaki.

    I prefer it because it is relatively stable and has an intelligent UI. The
    learning curve is relatively low.

    Eric
     
    EricF, Mar 27, 2008
    #12
  13. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    I think it's neat that there are so many choice available right now.
    It's a wonder to me that both NetBeans and Eclipse can be so feature
    rich and also a free download.

    But if a pay-for IDE can provide some substantial features, I'd love to
    know about it.

    EricF wrote:

    > I much prefer IntelliJ over Eclipse, enough to pay for it. I haven't looked at
    > NetBeans in quite a while so can't compare the 2.
    >
    > IntelliJ is not a general IDE. It was created in Java for Java. It is starting
    > to support some of the newer dynamic languages; the newest versions support
    > Groovy and Rails.


    I see you didn't mention C and C++. When I tried NetBeans, I pointed it
    at my Cygwin install (that's a Unix style environment running on
    Windows) and NetBeans took it. It uses it's own editor, the C and C++
    compiler in Cygwin, and either Ant or make. I was in heaven.

    Open source products with a lot of support frequently have support for
    crazy configurations like Cygwin that commercial products have a hard
    time justifying support for.

    >
    > It has templates for web apps, j2ee, struts and jsf support. Dunno about Dojo
    > or JMaki.


    Dojo and JMaki are libraries that support client side widgets for web
    2.0. You load them onto your JSP or PHP page, run it and they put neat
    little Javascript widgets on the browser. NetBeans has a pallet for
    them so I can just drag and drop them into layouts or even right into a
    text file I'm editing. It'd darn cool.


    >
    > I prefer it because it is relatively stable and has an intelligent UI. The
    > learning curve is relatively low.


    I'm still interested in features, if you're willing to talk about them,
    or even point me at a web page with tutorials, I'd like to take a look
    at it.

    This post is more pro-NetBeans than I intended. I really don't want to
    start any editor wars. It's just nice little features that I've found
    in NetBeans that it great to use, and comparisons are valid I think if
    one wants to have earnest discussion.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 27, 2008
    #13
  14. mttc

    mttc Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if haveAnother beter IDE?

    I have to read all responds, thanks all.
    I ask: "So my wonder why all guys talking about Eclipse?" I refer to
    All big company that base his product on Eclipse (like IBM, Adobe).
    from my view point I wonder why all of these company not spend more to
    make Eclipse the best enviroment. I not understand why Borland stop
    his IDE while the Eclipse is not yet Stable environment. and for me
    the Style of Eclipse is not intuitive and not attract. it's seem thet
    OpenSource wasting power on many paraller project instead focus on
    Ultimate one IDE (as we see on PHP and Rubi and JSP).
     
    mttc, Mar 27, 2008
    #14
  15. mttc

    Christian Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    mttc schrieb:
    > I have to read all responds, thanks all.
    > I ask: "So my wonder why all guys talking about Eclipse?" I refer to
    > All big company that base his product on Eclipse (like IBM, Adobe).
    > from my view point I wonder why all of these company not spend more to
    > make Eclipse the best enviroment. I not understand why Borland stop
    > his IDE while the Eclipse is not yet Stable environment. and for me
    > the Style of Eclipse is not intuitive and not attract. it's seem thet
    > OpenSource wasting power on many paraller project instead focus on
    > Ultimate one IDE (as we see on PHP and Rubi and JSP).


    May be you are rather one of the few people that experienced a crash.

    I can't think of any crash of eclipse IDE in since I started using it.
    For me thats stable!

    Do you have some strange configuration?

    Christian
     
    Christian, Mar 27, 2008
    #15
  16. mttc

    mttc Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if haveAnother beter IDE?

    No, I install the latest Erupa with no plugin. the crash occur when I
    try to add text file to project (for input file). Also for my flavor
    this IDE have somthing unconvinced. it's difficult for me to point it
    out. Why not have Open project command (I west about two hour until I
    find the import command), why debugger switch to another perspective
    (I thing this solve only on very current version).


    Also I expect from IDE that make indented totally automatically (VB on
    VS). Also I have prefer to not allow case sensative even the lenguge
    allow this(VB on VS correct the Upper case according the decleration).
    And also when I change name of variable on the declaration statment,
    it's rename the name on all his scope.

    I know that guys say: Java is not VB, you are not understand.. and so
    on. but if you have to be honnest these thing is rapid your work.

    I try also the Netbean and I very disappointed, there no have list of
    error!
     
    mttc, Mar 27, 2008
    #16
  17. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    mttc wrote:
    > No, I install the latest Erupa with no plugin. the crash occur when I


    What's Erupa?

    > try to add text file to project (for input file). Also for my flavor
    > this IDE have somthing unconvinced. it's difficult for me to point it
    > out. Why not have Open project command (I west about two hour until I


    Two hours! Lol.....


    > Also I expect from IDE that make indented totally automatically (VB on


    Didn't we just get done having a huge discussion about how Eclipse does
    this?

    > VS). Also I have prefer to not allow case sensative even the lenguge
    > allow this(VB on VS correct the Upper case according the decleration).


    Case has been commented on before, by other folks. It's an issue for
    some, not for many.


    > I know that guys say: Java is not VB, you are not understand.. and so
    > on. but if you have to be honnest these thing is rapid your work.


    My work is rapid. I'm sorry your's is not, but you have to put some
    effort into learning or your work will never be fast.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 28, 2008
    #17
  18. mttc

    Lew Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    mttc wrote:
    >> VS). Also I have prefer to not allow case sensative even the lenguge
    >> allow this(VB on VS correct the Upper case according the decleration).


    The Java language not only allows case sensitivity, it requires it.

    Mark Space wrote:
    > Case has been commented on before, by other folks. It's an issue for
    > some, not for many.


    Case matters in Java.

    >> I know that guys say: Java is not VB, you are not understand.. and so
    >> on. but if you have to be honnest these thing is rapid your work.


    > My work is rapid. I'm sorry your's is not, but you have to put some
    > effort into learning or your work will never be fast.


    That is true of all tools, the more so for worthwhile ones.

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, Mar 28, 2008
    #18
  19. mttc

    Mark Space Guest

    Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Anotherbeter IDE?

    Lew wrote:
    > mttc wrote:
    >>> VS). Also I have prefer to not allow case sensative even the lenguge
    >>> allow this(VB on VS correct the Upper case according the decleration).

    >
    > The Java language not only allows case sensitivity, it requires it.
    >
    > Mark Space wrote:
    >> Case has been commented on before, by other folks. It's an issue for
    >> some, not for many.

    >
    > Case matters in Java.


    He's saying the IDE should ignore case when looking for identifier names
    for completion. Some Visual Microsoft product does this, I guess, and
    it's trained a lot of coders to expect the feature. I can see where it
    could be handy, but I'm used to case-sensitive completion so I tend to
    adjust for it with out thinking about it.

    NetBeans claims to have something called camel-case completion, where it
    can figure out the class name from *just* the capital letters in the
    class name. Like String would be S and ArrayList would be AL. I've
    never used it, but it sounds cool.
     
    Mark Space, Mar 28, 2008
    #19
  20. Re: After I try latest of Netbean and Eclipse I wonder if have Another beter IDE?

    Mark Space wrote:
    > Lew wrote:
    >> mttc wrote:
    >>>> VS). Also I have prefer to not allow case sensative even the
    >>>> lenguge allow this(VB on VS correct the Upper case according the
    >>>> decleration).

    >>
    >> The Java language not only allows case sensitivity, it requires it.
    >>
    >> Mark Space wrote:
    >>> Case has been commented on before, by other folks. It's an issue
    >>> for some, not for many.

    >>
    >> Case matters in Java.

    >
    > He's saying the IDE should ignore case when looking for identifier
    > names for completion. Some Visual Microsoft product does this, I
    > guess, and it's trained a lot of coders to expect the feature. I
    > can
    > see where it could be handy, but I'm used to case-sensitive
    > completion so I tend to adjust for it with out thinking about it.


    Intellij ignores case when you're trying to find a class by name. (You
    type in the first N letters and it will display all that match, case
    ignored.) I like that very much, especially since some classes are
    named with what seems to me to be the wrong casing (not JDK classes so
    much as user ones.)
     
    Mike Schilling, Mar 28, 2008
    #20
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