ALT text block for image

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Sandy, Oct 18, 2004.

  1. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    Is there any way to force the text block that pops up for an image to
    have a longer display time?

    I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor is hovering
    over. In some cases, a lot of text is displayed but the text block
    disappears too quickly to allow you to read the whole thing. I just
    wondered if there was a way to specify that the block remain on the
    screen until the cursor moves away from that portion of the image?

    Or is there a better way to do this?

    Sandy
    Sandy, Oct 18, 2004
    #1
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  2. Sandy wrote:
    > Is there any way to force the text block that pops up for an image to
    > have a longer display time?


    No.


    > I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    > text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor is hovering
    > over. In some cases, a lot of text is displayed but the text block
    > disappears too quickly to allow you to read the whole thing. I just
    > wondered if there was a way to specify that the block remain on the
    > screen until the cursor moves away from that portion of the image?
    >
    > Or is there a better way to do this?


    The TITLE attribute, perhaps. Or don't use an imagemap that is not
    self-explanatory enough.


    Matthias
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Oct 18, 2004
    #2
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  3. Sandy wrote:
    > Is there any way to force the text block that pops up for an image to
    > have a longer display time?


    http://www.vortex-webdesign.com/help/faq.htm#force

    > I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    > text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor is hovering
    > over.


    Alternative text is just that: alternative text. A couple of obsolete
    browsers misuse it for tooltips, but it should only be used as an
    alternative to the image if it can't be displayed for some reason. The
    title attribute is what you should be using.

    > In some cases, a lot of text is displayed but the text block
    > disappears too quickly to allow you to read the whole thing. I just
    > wondered if there was a way to specify that the block remain on the
    > screen until the cursor moves away from that portion of the image?


    You could try using some kind of JavaScript solution in addition to
    using the title attribute, but never rely on any kind of tooltip working.
    Leif K-Brooks, Oct 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Quoth the raven Sandy:

    > I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    > text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor is
    > hovering over.


    You must be using a broken browser then. Alt text is not for hover
    display, that is what the title attribute is for. In my browser of
    choice, your alt text would not be displayed.

    > Or is there a better way to do this?


    <img src="..."
    alt="<Display this when images turned off>"
    title="I want you to read all this text when you hover ..."
    ...

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Oct 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Sandy

    Rob McAninch Guest

    Sandy <news:>:

    > Is there any way to force the text block that pops up for an
    > image to have a longer display time?


    If you are referring to the alt or title attribute being
    displayed graphically then you would have to rewrite the code of
    the browser in question. Or disable images so you can see the
    alternative text.

    > I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific
    > "ALT=" text to help identify the portion of the image the
    > cursor is hovering over. [...]
    > Or is there a better way to do this?


    Perhaps if your images aren't easy enough to figure out where I
    might go you would be better served with different images and/or
    actual text.

    Another option would be to look into some DHTML method to display
    the extra text when the browser supports such things.

    --
    Rob McAninch
    http://rock13.com Perl Programming and
    Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp
    Rob McAninch, Oct 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Sandy

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Sandy said:

    > Is there any way to force


    http://webtips.dan.info/force.html

    > the text block that pops up for an image to have a longer display
    > time?


    use a browser other than IE where the tooltip remains visible until the
    mouse moves.

    > I have an imagemap


    usability/accessibility issues. you probably shouldn't be using it

    > with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    > text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor


    your design is broken if it needs tooltips to "help"

    > is hovering over.


    'alt' is not meant to display a 'tooltip'. the 'title' attribute usually
    does.

    alt = text [CS]
    For user agents that cannot display images, forms, or applets, this
    attribute specifies alternate text. The language of the alternate text
    is specified by the lang attribute.
    http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#adef-alt

    title = text [CS]
    This attribute offers advisory information about the element for which
    it is set.[...]
    Values of the title attribute may be rendered by user agents in a
    variety of ways. For instance, visual browsers frequently display the
    title as a "tool tip" (a short message that appears when the pointing
    device pauses over an object). Audio user agents may speak the title
    information in a similar context. For example, setting the attribute on
    a link allows user agents (visual and non-visual) to tell users about
    the nature of the linked resource:
    http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#adef-title

    The "tooltip" effect and the title attribute
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/alt.html#tooltip

    > In some cases, a lot of text is displayed but the text block
    > disappears too quickly to allow you to read the whole thing.


    you've got yourself stuck on a particular course of action. give it up.
    the solution is to redesign your broken design.


    --


    v o i c e s
    brucie, Oct 18, 2004
    #6
  7. Sandy

    Sam Hughes Guest

    Leif K-Brooks <> wrote in news:2ti3ooF202ndvU1@uni-
    berlin.de:

    > Alternative text is just that: alternative text. A couple of obsolete
    > browsers misuse it for tooltips, but it should only be used as an
    > alternative to the image if it can't be displayed for some reason.


    Why only then?
    Sam Hughes, Oct 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Sam Hughes <> wrote:

    >> Alternative text is just that: alternative text. A couple of obsolete
    >> browsers misuse it for tooltips, but it should only be used as an
    >> alternative to the image if it can't be displayed for some reason.

    >
    > Why only then?


    What do you think "alternative" (or "alternate") means?

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    Jukka K. Korpela, Oct 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Sandy

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Jukka K. Korpela said:

    > What do you think "alternative" (or "alternate") means?


    · unemployed.
    · grow/sell/smoke drugs.
    · fear of soap and water.
    · delude yourself into thinking you can play bongo drums and in public.
    · lots of body decorations/mutilations especially from african origins.
    · grow dreadlocks and have small creatures living in them.

    --


    v o i c e s
    brucie, Oct 18, 2004
    #9
  10. Sandy

    Sam Hughes Guest

    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote in
    news:Xns9587B9CEC360jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31:

    > Sam Hughes <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Alternative text is just that: alternative text. A couple of obsolete
    >>> browsers misuse it for tooltips, but it should only be used as an
    >>> alternative to the image if it can't be displayed for some reason.

    >>
    >> Why only then?

    >
    > What do you think "alternative" (or "alternate") means?


    But why _only_ then should a browser reveal the alternate text? If a
    reader who sees an image wants to know what the image's alternate text is,
    there is no reason to stop him.
    Sam Hughes, Oct 19, 2004
    #10
  11. Sandy

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On 19 Oct 2004 01:15:43 GMT, Sam Hughes <> declared in
    alt.html:

    > But why _only_ then should a browser reveal the alternate text?


    Because it is an *alternative*. You render the image, or alternately,
    the text.

    > If a
    > reader who sees an image wants to know what the image's alternate text is,
    > there is no reason to stop him.


    If you mean stop him (or her ;-) ) looking at the page source, of course
    not. In Mozilla, if you right click an image and view its properties, it
    tells you the alt text. I don't see a problem with that. But the text
    should not be shown on the page in addition to the image, including as a
    tooltip.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
    Mark Parnell, Oct 19, 2004
    #11
  12. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:55:22 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    >Quoth the raven Sandy:
    >
    >> I have an imagemap with lots of areas that contain specific "ALT="
    >> text to help identify the portion of the image the cursor is
    >> hovering over.

    >
    >You must be using a broken browser then. Alt text is not for hover
    >display, that is what the title attribute is for. In my browser of
    >choice, your alt text would not be displayed.
    >
    >> Or is there a better way to do this?

    >
    ><img src="..."
    > alt="<Display this when images turned off>"
    > title="I want you to read all this text when you hover ..."
    > ...


    I'm using IE6 and only the ALT tag will display all the text. If I
    stick it in the TITLE, only the first line is displayed. That isn't
    acceptable for my purposes.

    Sandy
    Sandy, Oct 19, 2004
    #12
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Guest

    On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:19:46 +1000, brucie <>
    wrote:
    >
    >> In some cases, a lot of text is displayed but the text block
    >> disappears too quickly to allow you to read the whole thing.

    >
    >you've got yourself stuck on a particular course of action. give it up.
    >the solution is to redesign your broken design.


    I don't have a broken design. What I have are limitations on what I
    want to appear. :) My image is a map which I want to enhance with
    commentary. I want the user to be able to see the whole map and when
    the mouse hovers over a position on the map, they can see the
    commentary about that particular site. I could use a graphics program
    to stick little boxes all over the place with the appropriate text,
    but then the map would be too cluttered. The popup tooltips seem like
    the ideal solution. I tried putting the text in the TITLE but only
    the first line displays. Only the ALT text will display everything
    albeit for a short time. Javascript could put the text in the status
    bar but that is kind of awkward.

    Sandy
    Sandy, Oct 19, 2004
    #13
  14. Sandy

    rf Guest

    Sandy

    > On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:55:22 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    > <> wrote:


    > ><img src="..."
    > > alt="<Display this when images turned off>"
    > > title="I want you to read all this text when you hover ..."
    > > ...

    >
    > I'm using IE6 and only the ALT tag


    Attribute. It is an alt attribute.

    > will display all the text. If I
    > stick it in the TITLE, only the first line is displayed.


    Er, what?

    The title attribute will be displayed on however many lines it takes to fit
    it all in.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Oct 19, 2004
    #14
  15. Sandy

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Sandy said:

    > I'm using IE6


    no one cares what you use. its what your visitors uses that matters.

    > and only the ALT tag will display all the text.


    it behavior is the same as title

    > If I stick it in the TITLE, only the first line is displayed.


    IE6 will display title text until there is so much it can no longer fit
    within the browser window. at full screen 800x600 thats almost 3k of
    text.

    > That isn't acceptable for my purposes.


    your design is broken. dump it and start again or just continue wasting
    your time.


    --


    v o i c e s
    brucie, Oct 19, 2004
    #15
  16. Sandy

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Sandy said:

    > >you've got yourself stuck on a particular course of action. give it up.
    > >the solution is to redesign your broken design.


    > I don't have a broken design.


    yes you do. rethink what you're trying to achieve and start again.

    > What I have are limitations


    you can waste your time if you like but don't waste mine.


    --


    v o i c e s
    brucie, Oct 19, 2004
    #16
  17. Sandy

    Sam Hughes Guest

    Mark Parnell <> wrote in
    news:198bk9yl7g8x5.13wemtdtlwzby$:

    > On 19 Oct 2004 01:15:43 GMT, Sam Hughes <> declared in
    > alt.html:
    >
    >> But why _only_ then should a browser reveal the alternate text?

    >
    > Because it is an *alternative*. You render the image, or alternately,
    > the text.


    Your logic seems to be as follows:
    1. Alt text must be rendered if the image is not rendered.
    2. ???
    3. Therefore, if the image is rendered, the contents of the alt text should
    not be made available to the user.

    Please fill in the "???".

    >> If a reader who sees an image wants to know what the image's alternate
    >> text is, there is no reason to stop him.

    >
    > [...] But the text should not be shown on the page in addition to the
    > image, including as a tooltip.


    Why not?
    Sam Hughes, Oct 19, 2004
    #17
  18. Sandy

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On 19 Oct 2004 02:16:52 GMT, Sam Hughes <> declared in
    alt.html:
    > Mark Parnell <> wrote in
    > news:198bk9yl7g8x5.13wemtdtlwzby$:
    >> [...] But the text should not be shown on the page in addition to the
    >> image, including as a tooltip.

    >
    > Why not?


    Because it's an *alternative*.

    al·ter·na·tive (n.)

    1. a. The choice between two mutually exclusive possibilities.
    b. A situation presenting such a choice.
    c. Either of these possibilities.

    Note: *mutually exclusive*. That means if you have one, you cannot have
    the other. That is what an alternative is.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
    Mark Parnell, Oct 19, 2004
    #18
  19. brucie wrote:
    > In alt.html Jukka K. Korpela said:
    >
    >> What do you think "alternative" (or "alternate") means?

    >
    > · unemployed.
    > · grow/sell/smoke drugs.
    > · fear of soap and water.
    > · delude yourself into thinking you can play bongo drums and in
    > public. · lots of body decorations/mutilations especially from
    > african origins. · grow dreadlocks and have small creatures living in
    > them.


    speaking of which, i recently went to the mullimbimbi markets with the wife
    and kids. that was interesting.
    Disco Octopus, Oct 19, 2004
    #19
  20. Sandy

    brucie Guest

    brucie, Oct 19, 2004
    #20
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