Alt-text Tags and D-links

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    Luigi Donatello Asero wrote

    > I am looking for example of D-links


    What it a D-link?

    > http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html


    Ah, I see. This page has obviously led you to the incorrect conclusion that
    there are such things as "Alt-text Tags", also mentioned in your subject
    line.

    Well, there is no such thing. There is the alt attribute of the image
    element, meant to be displayed when the browser can not display the image.

    As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea. That page up there
    you quoted is a load of crap. Pay no attention to it.

    Look at this:

    <quote>
    <script type="text/javascript">
    <!-- #bbinclude "scripts.incl" -->
    <!-- //hide
    </quote>

    and what on earth is this:
    <quote>
    <p class="spread2"><img src="images/dottedline.gif" alt="" width="371"
    height="3" /><br />
    </quote>

    The above indicates the author of the page has no idea at all about Real Web
    Authoring.

    Where on the planet do you dig up all these things? I would think that you
    would be far better off making *your* content better rather than looking at
    all the rubbish sites you inflict on us.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. "rf" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:drUFc.78335$...
    > Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
    >
    > > I am looking for example of D-links

    >
    > What it a D-link?
    >
    > > http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html

    >
    > Ah, I see. This page has obviously led you to the incorrect conclusion

    that
    > there are such things as "Alt-text Tags", also mentioned in your subject
    > line.
    >
    > Well, there is no such thing. There is the alt attribute of the image
    > element, meant to be displayed when the browser can not display the image.
    >
    > As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea. That page up there
    > you quoted is a load of crap. Pay no attention to it.

    I do not like the idea of reading information only from one source. You may
    like it if you want to.
    Also, I
    wonder whethere you visited the following page and read its content before
    writing
    this post. You may want to read here.

    http://ncam.wgbh.org/cdrom/guideline/guideline1.html

    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenhetitalien3.html







    > Where on the planet do you dig up all these things? I would think that you
    > would be far better off making *your* content better rather than looking

    at
    > all the rubbish sites you inflict on us.
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 4, 2004
    #3
  4. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    jake, Jul 4, 2004
    #4
  5. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <drUFc.78335$>, rf
    <> writes
    >Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
    >
    >> I am looking for example of D-links

    >
    >What it a D-link?
    >

    [snip]

    >
    >As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea.


    [snip]

    search http://www.google.com for:
    d-link accessibility


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jul 4, 2004
    #5
  6. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    news:ZAUFc.4238$...

    > > As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea. That page up

    there
    > > you quoted is a load of crap. Pay no attention to it.


    > I do not like the idea of reading information only from one source.


    Even the crap?

    As you wish...

    > Also, I
    > wonder whethere you visited the following page and read its content before
    > writing
    > this post.


    > You may want to read here.
    >
    > http://ncam.wgbh.org/cdrom/guideline/guideline1.html


    No, I have not visited that page, probably because this it the first time I
    have seen it mentioned. If you want me to read something to understand what
    you are talking about then state it up front, in your original post, not as
    an afterthought.

    I also do not agree with a lot of the stuff on that page.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 4, 2004
    #6
  7. "jake" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > In message <drUFc.78335$>, rf
    > <> writes
    > >Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
    > >
    > >> I am looking for example of D-links

    > >
    > >What it a D-link?
    > >

    > [snip]
    >
    > >
    > >As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea.

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > search http://www.google.com for:
    > d-link accessibility
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jake


    Thank you
    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenhetitalien3.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 4, 2004
    #7
  8. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    "jake" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In message <drUFc.78335$>, rf
    > <> writes
    > >Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
    > >
    > >> I am looking for example of D-links

    > >
    > >What it a D-link?
    > >

    > [snip]
    >
    > >
    > >As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea.

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    > search http://www.google.com for:
    > d-link accessibility


    Yes, right, I am going to google for a term that the OP should have explaned
    up front? I don't think so...

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    Luigi Donatello Asero:

    > > >> I am looking for example of D-links


    Me:
    > > >What it a D-link?


    Jake:
    > > search http://www.google.com for:
    > > d-link accessibility


    LDA:
    > Thank you


    <sigh/>

    I give up!

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Els Guest

    rf wrote:

    > Luigi Donatello Asero:
    >> > >> I am looking for example of D-links

    >
    > Me:
    >> > >What it a D-link?

    >
    > Jake:
    >> > search http://www.google.com for:
    >> > d-link accessibility

    >
    > LDA:
    >> Thank you

    >
    > <sigh/>
    >
    > I give up!


    <g>

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
     
    Els, Jul 4, 2004
    #10
  11. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <7RUFc.78409$>, rf
    <> writes
    >
    >"jake" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In message <drUFc.78335$>, rf
    >> <> writes
    >> >Luigi Donatello Asero wrote
    >> >
    >> >> I am looking for example of D-links
    >> >
    >> >What it a D-link?
    >> >

    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> >
    >> >As to exactly what a D-links is: I have no bloody idea.

    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >> search http://www.google.com for:
    >> d-link accessibility

    >
    >Yes, right, I am going to google for a term that the OP should have explaned
    >up front? I don't think so...
    >

    Just think of it as an adventure ...................... ;-)


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jul 4, 2004
    #11
  12. Luigi Donatello Asero

    John Brandt Guest

    See http://www.mainecite.org/

    The use of a "d-link" is one of a number of methodologies used to
    assist persons with disabilities, specifically persons with visual
    disabilities. This method is/was particularly important/valuable for
    complex images (e.g., graphs and charts) where a lengthy description
    is needed to help the user understand the graphic.

    The primary accessible web design method to address images is with the
    use of the ALT attribute (commonly referred to as the "ALT Tag). Since
    older Assistive Technology devices (certain text readers) did not
    always support the ALT attribute, the "little-d" was suggested and
    developed. The "little-d" never really caught on.

    Another method is the use of the Long Description attribute
    (LONGDESC="") which was adopted by the W3C as the offical method for
    dealing with images that need long descriptions. Regretfully, there
    are very few (if any) browsers or AT devices that support this
    attribute.

    For more information visit WebAIM
    http://www.webaim.org/techniques/images/6



    jeb


    On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:09:32 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >I am looking for example of D-links
    >http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html
     
    John Brandt, Jul 4, 2004
    #12
  13. <John Brandt> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    >
    > See http://www.mainecite.org/
    >
    > The use of a "d-link" is one of a number of methodologies used to
    > assist persons with disabilities, specifically persons with visual
    > disabilities. This method is/was particularly important/valuable for
    > complex images (e.g., graphs and charts) where a lengthy description
    > is needed to help the user understand the graphic.
    >
    > The primary accessible web design method to address images is with the
    > use of the ALT attribute (commonly referred to as the "ALT Tag). Since
    > older Assistive Technology devices (certain text readers) did not
    > always support the ALT attribute, the "little-d" was suggested and
    > developed. The "little-d" never really caught on.
    > Another method is the use of the Long Description attribute
    > (LONGDESC="") which was adopted by the W3C as the offical method for
    > dealing with images that need long descriptions. Regretfully, there
    > are very few (if any) browsers or AT devices that support this
    > attribute.
    >
    > For more information visit WebAIM
    > http://www.webaim.org/techniques/images/6
    >
    >
    >
    > jeb
    >
    >
    > On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:09:32 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >I am looking for example of D-links
    > >http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html

    >


    As far as I understand the D-link is useful in case the browser does not
    understand the "longdesc"
    See
    http://ncam.wgbh.org/cdrom/guideline/guideline1.html
    and my page www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenhetitalien3.html
    If you click on the D you open a page which will describe the photo ( the
    description is under construction)


    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenhetitalien3.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 4, 2004
    #13
  14. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <>, John Brandt
    <?@?.?.invalid> writes
    >
    >See http://www.mainecite.org/


    Interesting 'accessibility-oriented' site -- with some good examples of
    the d-link. Also http://www.jebswebs.com/
    >
    >The use of a "d-link" is one of a number of methodologies used to
    >assist persons with disabilities, specifically persons with visual
    >disabilities. This method is/was particularly important/valuable for
    >complex images (e.g., graphs and charts) where a lengthy description
    >is needed to help the user understand the graphic.
    >
    >The primary accessible web design method to address images is with the
    >use of the ALT attribute (commonly referred to as the "ALT Tag). Since
    >older Assistive Technology devices (certain text readers) did not
    >always support the ALT attribute, the "little-d" was suggested and
    >developed. The "little-d" never really caught on.
    >

    The d-link is pretty much a 'de facto' standard for providing a link to
    a description page.

    http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/publicwebsite/publi
    c_alttext.hcsp

    >Another method is the use of the Long Description attribute
    >(LONGDESC="") which was adopted by the W3C as the offical method for
    >dealing with images that need long descriptions. Regretfully, there
    >are very few (if any) browsers or AT devices that support this
    >attribute.


    The 'longdesc' is fully supported by IBM's HPR (Home Page Reader) --
    although I would tend to provide both a longdesc in the <img> (for those
    AT UAs that understand it), plus an adjacent d-link for those that
    don't.

    -- as with your 'Main CITE' logo.

    There seems to be no standard for the visual representation of a d-link.
    I've seen:
    (a) D
    (b) d
    (c) [d]

    Personally, I tend to use 'd'.



    >
    >For more information visit WebAIM
    >http://www.webaim.org/techniques/images/6
    >
    >
    >
    >jeb
    >
    >
    >On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:09:32 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>I am looking for example of D-links
    >>http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html

    >

    regards.
    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jul 4, 2004
    #14
  15. Luigi Donatello Asero

    brucie Guest

    in post: <news:drUFc.78335$>
    rf <> said:

    > What it a D-link?


    a D after an image linked to a long description of the image used for
    UAs that don't support longdesc. i don't think it should be used. if a
    person needs or wants longdesc then they should use a UA that supports
    it.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#long-descriptions

    > Where on the planet do you dig up all these things?


    the little voices tell me all about it

    --
    b r u c i e
     
    brucie, Jul 4, 2004
    #15
  16. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Andy Dingley Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message news:<wcUFc.4234$>...
    > I am looking for example of D-links
    > http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html


    Why ? They're a stupid idea from people who have no real idea about
    accessibility. The WGBH site you refer to, and the mainecite site too,
    are both poorly accessible sites. Their use of "d links" is bogus and
    the rest of their coding is poor too.

    Some clues:

    d-link - A terrible idea. It's the "one pixel gif" of accessibility.
    A stupid idea, bolted on to a page in a spirit of "build something out
    of the simple tools we already have" and entirely ignoring the real
    ways to do it better.

    These are sites about accessibility, that are themselves poorly
    accessible. Can one really pay much attention to them, when they can't
    even achieve what they're advocating?

    Accessiblity and Bobby icons. Any page that shows these seems doomed
    to be a poorly accessible page, coded by idiots. It shouldn't be, and
    there's no way it needs to be, but an empirical look at what's
    actually out there bears this out.
     
    Andy Dingley, Jul 5, 2004
    #16
  17. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Andy
    Dingley <> writes
    >"Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    >news:<wcUFc.4234$>...
    >> I am looking for example of D-links
    >> http://ncam.wgbh.org/accessncam.html

    >
    >Why ? They're a stupid idea from people who have no real idea about
    >accessibility.


    Says who? What's your basis for such a judgement?

    >The WGBH site you refer to, and the mainecite site too,
    >are both poorly accessible sites.


    What do you find 'inaccessible' about the http://www.mainecite.org/
    site? Specifically.

    >Their use of "d links" is bogus and
    >the rest of their coding is poor too.
    >
    >Some clues:
    >
    >d-link - A terrible idea.


    Why? Why is it 'terrible'?

    >It's the "one pixel gif" of accessibility.


    The 1-pixel .gif -- one of the worlds great inventions; the 'Swiss army
    knife' of accessibility. So what's wrong? -- suggest a substitute.

    >A stupid idea, bolted on to a page in a spirit of "build something out
    >of the simple tools we already have" and entirely ignoring the real
    >ways to do it better.


    Which are?
    >
    >These are sites about accessibility, that are themselves poorly
    >accessible. Can one really pay much attention to them, when they can't
    >even achieve what they're advocating?


    >
    >Accessiblity and Bobby icons. Any page that shows these seems doomed
    >to be a poorly accessible page, coded by idiots. It shouldn't be, and
    >there's no way it needs to be, but an empirical look at what's
    >actually out there bears this out.


    Examples?

    You make a lot of claims, but give little evidence to support them.

    Are you serious or is a quiet day and you felt like a bit of trolling?

    regards.

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jul 5, 2004
    #17
  18. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    jake wrote
    > Dingley wrote


    > >It's the "one pixel gif" of accessibility.

    >
    > The 1-pixel .gif -- one of the worlds great inventions; the 'Swiss army
    > knife' of accessibility. So what's wrong? -- suggest a substitute.


    In <u><em><strong>ALL</strong></em></u> cases where it is used: a little
    tiny bit of CSS.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 5, 2004
    #18
  19. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <VBaGc.79291$>, rf
    <> writes
    >jake wrote
    >> Dingley wrote

    >
    >> >It's the "one pixel gif" of accessibility.

    >>
    >> The 1-pixel .gif -- one of the worlds great inventions; the 'Swiss army
    >> knife' of accessibility. So what's wrong? -- suggest a substitute.

    >
    >In <u><em><strong>ALL</strong></em></u> cases where it is used: a little
    >tiny bit of CSS.
    >

    Hmmm .... not sure what you're saying. Do you want to run that past me
    one more time .... with a bit of explanation? or an example, even?

    Thanks.

    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Jul 5, 2004
    #19
  20. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    jake wrote
    > In message <VBaGc.79291$>, rf
    > <> writes
    > >jake wrote


    > >> The 1-pixel .gif -- one of the worlds great inventions; the 'Swiss army
    > >> knife' of accessibility. So what's wrong? -- suggest a substitute.


    You said "suggest a substitute". there it is, just up there ^. Ok then:

    Which part of:

    <quote>
    > >In <u><em><strong>ALL</strong></em></u> cases where it is used: a little
    > >tiny bit of CSS.

    </quote>

    did you fail to understand? CSS readily and correctly replaces 1 pixel gifs.

    > Hmmm .... not sure what you're saying. Do you want to run that past me
    > one more time .... with a bit of explanation? or an example, even?


    No, it does not work that way. *You* have said 1 pixel gifs are good. *I*
    have said they are bad. I don't have to provide an example where 1 pixel
    gifs are bad (although I could, look at just about any site out there). It
    is up to you to provide an example where you think a 1 pixels gif is good.

    Please now do so, with an emphasis on why it aids accessibility.

    I will then replace it with suitable, and more appropriate, CSS.

    --
    Cheers, in wait mode...
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 5, 2004
    #20
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