Alternative to cocoon?

Discussion in 'XML' started by Jeremy, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
    the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
    HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
    impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose. I
    have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is easy-to-configure
    server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up with an apache module
    that does this without having to do tomcat and cocoon and sitemaps and all
    that jazz?

    Thanks,
    -Jeremy
    Jeremy, Oct 19, 2003
    #1
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  2. On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000, Jeremy wrote:

    > My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
    > the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
    > HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
    > impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose.


    I am sorry, just this sentence makes clear, that you have

    (1) no idea about Cocoon

    (2) did not try versions after 1.8


    as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
    there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
    considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.

    moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
    fine grained caching strategies, as an example.

    additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
    list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
    best Apache projects.

    So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
    dubious stuff like to one cited above.


    Alex
    Alexander Schatten, Oct 19, 2003
    #2
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  3. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Fair enough - I apologize for bashing cocoon. I'm sure it's an excellent
    solution for more advanced needs, but for my needs it is just plain
    overkill. I don't think that whether or not there is a less flexible
    solution is an unreasonable question - I phrased it like a jerk because I
    was getting frustrated with trying to configure cocoon.

    After I posted, a friend pointed me to mod_xslt which is pretty much exactly
    what I need. Thanks for the reply.


    "Alexander Schatten" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000, Jeremy wrote:
    >
    > > My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML

    document,
    > > the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
    > > HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
    > > impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this

    purpose.
    >
    > I am sorry, just this sentence makes clear, that you have
    >
    > (1) no idea about Cocoon
    >
    > (2) did not try versions after 1.8
    >
    >
    > as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
    > there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
    > considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.
    >
    > moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
    > fine grained caching strategies, as an example.
    >
    > additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
    > list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
    > best Apache projects.
    >
    > So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
    > dubious stuff like to one cited above.
    >
    >
    > Alex
    Jeremy, Oct 20, 2003
    #3
  4. Jeremy wrote on Sun, 19 Oct 2003 19:22:29 +0000:


    > I have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is
    > easy-to-configure server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up
    > with an apache module that does this without having to do tomcat and
    > cocoon and sitemaps and all that jazz?


    Searching for XSL on
    modules.apache.org yields several
    results, e.g. http://modules.apache.org/search?id=334. I haven't tried any
    of those.
    What I did try indeed is Popoon[1]. As you might have guessed, Popoon is
    [an approximation to] a Cocoon port to PHP. It's lighter, smaller and you
    have it running in no time, modifications can be made very quickly - PHP
    is so simple. Due to sophisticated caching mechanisms it performs quite
    well, too. Perhaps you might wan't to have a look at that?

    Best regards,
    Hannes Gassert


    [1] http://bitflux.ch/developer/cms/popoon.html


    --
    mediagonal sa // route de la fonderie 7 // ch-1700 fribourg
    tel 026 422 25 11 // key id 0x9EA04604 // www.mediagonal.ch
    Hannes Gassert, Oct 20, 2003
    #4
  5. On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 23:15:57 +0000, Jeremy wrote:

    > Fair enough - I apologize for bashing cocoon. I'm sure it's an excellent
    > solution for more advanced needs, but for my needs it is just plain
    > overkill. I don't think that whether or not there is a less flexible
    > solution is an unreasonable question - I phrased it like a jerk because I
    > was getting frustrated with trying to configure cocoon.


    well meanwhile I suggest Cocoon also for "small" problems. the reason is,
    that it is extremly simple to configure:

    (1) install a JDK

    (2) download Cocoon, build it by starting one batch file and start it

    thats it


    with the outomount feature even generation of new subprojects became very
    easy.


    Alex
    Alexander Schatten, Oct 20, 2003
    #5
  6. "Jeremy" <> wrote in message
    news:VvBkb.595888$cF.261050@rwcrnsc53...
    > My requirements are very simple: When a user browses to an XML document,
    > the server should parse the document, apply its stylesheet, and spit the
    > HTML at the client. Apache Cocoon is a slow, bloated mess that is
    > impossible to configure and it is just not right at all for this purpose.

    I
    > have no interest whatsoever in servlets, all I need is easy-to-configure
    > server-side XSL transformation. Has anyone come up with an apache module
    > that does this without having to do tomcat and cocoon and sitemaps and all
    > that jazz?



    try axkit.org instead of implementing in java/tomcat use perl/modperl
    instead.
    Kermit T Tensmeyer, Oct 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Jeremy

    Nick Kew Guest

    In article <>, one of infinite monkeys
    at the keyboard of "Alexander Schatten" <> wrote:

    > as a matter of fact: Cocoon is extremyl powerful, stable and flexible.
    > there are companies, that use Cocoon *because of performacne
    > considerations*; as Cocoon proved to be faster then other server tools.


    Erm - what other server tools?

    The context of the question was XSLT processing, and I have indeed
    encountered one monumentally slow XSLT module[1]. I guess if you compare
    to that, then cocoon or anything else comes out as much faster.
    But if you take any implementation worth looking at from this (or last)
    year you can expect a different result.

    > moreover, you have various options to speed up Cocoon applications using
    > fine grained caching strategies, as an example.


    Likewise Apache 2 with a sensible XSLT filter.

    Oh, and of course XSLT is just one application. If you want to suggest
    another, that's fine: I expect I could implement a faster version of XYZ
    with Apache 2, FWIW. That of course excepts jobs where "java" is part of
    the requirements spec; maybe where a company is heavily locked-in or the
    pointy-hairs can't grasp the difference between a tool and an outcome.

    > additionally it has a vivid community with good support in the mailing
    > list for users as well as for developers. it is probably one of the
    > best Apache projects.


    httpd doesn't do too badly ...

    > So I really would like you to really evaluate a project before you write
    > dubious stuff like to one cited above.


    Fair comment on the OP, but IMHO your post may be in danger of making a
    similar mistake, praising a product by comparing it to unspecified and
    perhaps inappropriate competition.

    Hmmm ... I'd better shut up now; I'm probably falling straight into the
    same rhetorical trap.

    [1] it was based on Sablotron, and running the commandline "sabcmd" from
    CGI was several hundred times faster.

    --
    Nick Kew

    In urgent need of paying work - see http://www.webthing.com/~nick/cv.html
    Nick Kew, Oct 21, 2003
    #7
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