Am I a programmer or a scripter?

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by Mothra, May 25, 2004.

  1. Mothra

    Mothra Guest

    Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
    program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
    example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

    I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
    that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
    (in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

    Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
    3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
    solve Sys Admin-type problems.

    So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?
     
    Mothra, May 25, 2004
    #1
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  2. Mothra wrote:
    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


    Snobbery, no doubt about it.

    Besides *real* programmers use assembler none of this high level language stuff that is just for the babies who can't cope with hex ;-)

    I once knew a guy who programmed intel assembly in debug, not just DOS stuff but windows drivers and the like.
     
    Peter Hickman, May 25, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mothra

    Paul Lalli Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2004, Mothra wrote:

    > Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
    > program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
    > example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?
    >
    > I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
    > that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
    > (in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".
    >
    > Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
    > 3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
    > solve Sys Admin-type problems.
    >
    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


    The FAQ covers this rather extensively:
    perldoc -q script

    Paul Lalli
     
    Paul Lalli, May 25, 2004
    #3
  4. Mothra

    Keith Keller Guest

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    On 2004-05-25, Mothra <> wrote:

    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


    Yes. :)

    I tell people I write code, to sidestep the semantics altogether.
    (Of course, I usually type it, but they know what I mean.)

    - --keith

    - --
    -francisco.ca.us
    (try just my userid to email me)
    AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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    Keith Keller, May 25, 2004
    #4
  5. "Peter Hickman" <> wrote in message
    news:40b34238$0$2114$...
    > Mothra wrote:
    > > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

    >
    > Snobbery, no doubt about it.
    >
    > Besides *real* programmers use assembler none of this high level language

    stuff that is just for the babies who can't cope with hex ;-)
    >
    > I once knew a guy who programmed intel assembly in debug, not just DOS

    stuff but windows drivers and the like.


    A definition I read years ago: "Unix Guru - writes device drivers using
    cat".
    ":cool:

    IMHO, a program is a sequence of steps to achieve a planned outcome,
    whether that be balancing the national budget or crossing the road to buy
    milk. A programmer is one who writes down the sequence of steps in a form
    which facilitates their execution in an effective and reproducible manner. A
    good programmer will write the steps in a manner which enhances the
    efficiency of both their execution and future modification, with best
    economy of resources.

    Almost invariably, those programmers I have worked with who exhibit
    religious bigotry in favour of one language or another do not qualify as
    good programmers, because they are too narrow minded to choose the best tool
    for the job and will use, say C++ to perform a task better suited to PHP or
    Perl.

    Mothra, if you write working Perl code, you are a programmer in my
    opinion. Tell 'em to go somewhere unpleasant and do something unspeakable -
    use you own words, of course !!

    Just my $0.02
    Doug

    --
    Remove the blots from my address to reply
     
    Doug Hutcheson, May 25, 2004
    #5
  6. Mothra

    Vetle Roeim Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:20 GMT, Mothra <> wrote:

    [...]
    > I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
    > that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
    > (in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".


    Programming in Java is no more real than programming in Perl, and anyone
    that claims anything else suffer from the "Perl hack" syndrome.

    Perl suffers from an image problem, and there are people going around
    imagining that Perl cannot be used for 'serious' applications, and that
    anything written in Perl is a hack (in the bad sense). This is simply not
    true.


    > Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
    > 3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
    > solve Sys Admin-type problems.
    >
    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


    Semantic snobbery, no doubt.


    --
    Touch eyeballs to screen for cheap laser surgery!
     
    Vetle Roeim, May 26, 2004
    #6
  7. On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:20 +0000, Mothra scribbled furiously:

    > Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
    > program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
    > example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?
    >
    > I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
    > that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
    > (in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".
    >
    > Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
    > 3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
    > solve Sys Admin-type problems.
    >
    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


    Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the day,
    whether you define it as a script and get it interpreted at runtime or
    compile it into a program (if you wish to use such definitions). Perl does
    have an image problem, mainly because it can look so messy at times and
    there are a few dodgy looking solutions (probably mine ;) out there but
    good Perl is almost art and does a stonking job, and there is plenty of
    this around.

    There are many many Perl programs/scripts out there that are way more
    complicated than many 'programmers' works in Java, C/C++ etc...

    </2p>
    Mike
    http://www.blamires.co.uk/
     
    mike blamires, May 27, 2004
    #7
  8. mike blamires <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:20 +0000, Mothra scribbled furiously:
    >
    > > . . . at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?


    > Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the day...


    The difference between a 'scripter' and a 'programmer' is determined
    by what happens when you bring up an error to them and ask for a fix:

    The Scripter will look at you and think for a moment -- and fix the
    code.

    The Programmer will look at you as if you've just said, 'Go shove a
    weasel up your ass,' and will blame the networking group.

    HTH

    HAND

    Steve the (perl/tk) Geek
     
    Steve The Geek, May 28, 2004
    #8
  9. "Steve The Geek" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > mike blamires <> wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:09:20 +0000, Mothra scribbled furiously:
    > >
    > > > . . . at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

    >
    > > Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the

    day...
    >
    > The difference between a 'scripter' and a 'programmer' is determined
    > by what happens when you bring up an error to them and ask for a fix:
    >
    > The Scripter will look at you and think for a moment -- and fix the
    > code.
    >
    > The Programmer will look at you as if you've just said, 'Go shove a
    > weasel up your ass,' and will blame the networking group.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > HAND
    >
    > Steve the (perl/tk) Geek


    LOL ! "8-D
    Doug the Scripter.....
    --
    Remove the blots from my address to reply
     
    Doug Hutcheson, May 31, 2004
    #9
  10. Mothra

    krakle Guest

    Mothra <> wrote in message news:<QHGsc.16109363$>...
    > Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
    > program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
    > example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?
    >
    > I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
    > that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
    > (in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".
    >
    > Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
    > 3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
    > solve Sys Admin-type problems.
    >
    > So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?



    Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    language that needs to be compiled programming. Whatever floats your
    boat.
     
    krakle, May 31, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    krakle <> wrote:
    :Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    :language that needs to be compiled programming.

    Yet you never (or rarely) hear of "LISP scripting" or even of
    "FORTH scripting".

    --
    Scintillate, scintillate, globule vivific
    Fain would I fathom thy nature specific.
    Loftily poised on ether capacious
    Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous. -- Anon
     
    Walter Roberson, May 31, 2004
    #11
  12. krakle <> wrote:

    > Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    > language that needs to be compiled programming.



    Perl is compiled.


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
     
    Tad McClellan, May 31, 2004
    #12
  13. Mothra

    Anno Siegel Guest

    Tad McClellan <> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
    > krakle <> wrote:
    >
    > > Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    > > language that needs to be compiled programming.

    >
    >
    > Perl is compiled.


    ....and interputed!

    Anno
     
    Anno Siegel, May 31, 2004
    #13
  14. Mothra

    John Bokma Guest

    Anno Siegel wrote:

    > Tad McClellan <> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
    >
    >>krakle <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    >>>language that needs to be compiled programming.

    >>
    >>
    >>Perl is compiled.

    >
    > ...and interputed!


    So we are script programmers :-D. We should be paid extra since we do
    two things at the same time ;-)

    --
    John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
    personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
    Experienced Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
     
    John Bokma, May 31, 2004
    #14
  15. John Bokma <> wrote:
    > Anno Siegel wrote:
    >> Tad McClellan <> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
    >>>krakle <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a

    ^^^^^^^^^^

    It's Archie Bunkerisms earn a smirk everytime it does it.


    >>>>language that needs to be compiled programming.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Perl is compiled.

    >>
    >> ...and interputed!

    >
    > So we are script programmers :-D. We should be paid extra since we do
    > two things at the same time ;-)



    You mean _you_ aren't being paid extra already?

    We all think that that is a shame.

    :)


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
     
    Tad McClellan, May 31, 2004
    #15
  16. Mothra

    John Bokma Guest

    Tad McClellan wrote:

    > John Bokma <> wrote:


    [snip]

    > You mean _you_ aren't being paid extra already?


    No, *snif*. Actually I have a hard time finding a nice Perl project :-(

    > We all think that that is a shame.


    Thanks!

    --
    John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
    personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
    Experienced Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
     
    John Bokma, May 31, 2004
    #16
  17. Mothra

    John Bokma Guest

    Walter Roberson wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > krakle <> wrote:
    > :Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    > :language that needs to be compiled programming.
    >
    > Yet you never (or rarely) hear of "LISP scripting" or even of
    > "FORTH scripting".


    LOL. How does one script a Forth Processor ;-). IIRC there is even LISP
    in silicon :-D.

    --
    John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
    personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
    Experienced Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
     
    John Bokma, May 31, 2004
    #17
  18. Mothra

    John Bokma Guest

    Tad McClellan wrote:

    > krakle <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    >>language that needs to be compiled programming.

    >
    > Perl is compiled.


    Java is interpreted on my computer. So am I a Java scripter? Oh, wait,
    JavaScript is a different language. Funny how the same work I do can
    change from scripting to programming by moving my program to a different
    platform.

    A programmer is one who is able to write a script ;-)

    --
    John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
    personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
    Experienced Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
     
    John Bokma, May 31, 2004
    #18
  19. On Mon, 31 May 2004, John Bokma wrote:

    > A programmer is one who is able to write a script ;-)


    Many a true word is spoken in jest.

    On my "first computer" (which was already obsolete when I met it in
    1958), the real experts couldn't be bothered to print out the answer -
    they just walked over and read it off the dekatrons.
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Jun 1, 2004
    #19
  20. Mothra

    Ben Morrow Guest

    Quoth John Bokma <>:
    > Tad McClellan wrote:
    >
    > > krakle <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
    > >>language that needs to be compiled programming.

    > >
    > > Perl is compiled.

    >
    > Java is interpreted on my computer.


    All programs are ultimately interpreted, even if that is machine code
    interpreted in hardware (or, in the case of Pentiums, JIT compiled to a
    lower level of machine code... :). Some languages are compiled (into
    another language) before interpretation, some are not.

    FWIW, I'd say the difference between a program and a script is that a
    script is simply a (relatively) trivial automation of something one
    could do by hand whereas a program is more complex than that. Language is
    irrelevant.

    Ben

    --
    And if you wanna make sense / Whatcha looking at me for? (Fiona Apple)
    * *
     
    Ben Morrow, Jun 1, 2004
    #20
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