Am I a programmer or a scripter?

M

Mothra

Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
(in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
solve Sys Admin-type problems.

So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?
 
P

Peter Hickman

Mothra said:
So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

Snobbery, no doubt about it.

Besides *real* programmers use assembler none of this high level language stuff that is just for the babies who can't cope with hex ;-)

I once knew a guy who programmed intel assembly in debug, not just DOS stuff but windows drivers and the like.
 
P

Paul Lalli

Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
(in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
solve Sys Admin-type problems.

So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

The FAQ covers this rather extensively:
perldoc -q script

Paul Lalli
 
K

Keith Keller

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So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

Yes. :)

I tell people I write code, to sidestep the semantics altogether.
(Of course, I usually type it, but they know what I mean.)

- --keith

- --
(e-mail address removed)-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom

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D

Doug Hutcheson

Peter Hickman said:
Snobbery, no doubt about it.

Besides *real* programmers use assembler none of this high level language
stuff that is just for the babies who can't cope with hex ;-)
I once knew a guy who programmed intel assembly in debug, not just DOS
stuff but windows drivers and the like.


A definition I read years ago: "Unix Guru - writes device drivers using
cat".
":cool:

IMHO, a program is a sequence of steps to achieve a planned outcome,
whether that be balancing the national budget or crossing the road to buy
milk. A programmer is one who writes down the sequence of steps in a form
which facilitates their execution in an effective and reproducible manner. A
good programmer will write the steps in a manner which enhances the
efficiency of both their execution and future modification, with best
economy of resources.

Almost invariably, those programmers I have worked with who exhibit
religious bigotry in favour of one language or another do not qualify as
good programmers, because they are too narrow minded to choose the best tool
for the job and will use, say C++ to perform a task better suited to PHP or
Perl.

Mothra, if you write working Perl code, you are a programmer in my
opinion. Tell 'em to go somewhere unpleasant and do something unspeakable -
use you own words, of course !!

Just my $0.02
Doug
 
V

Vetle Roeim

[...]
I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
(in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

Programming in Java is no more real than programming in Perl, and anyone
that claims anything else suffer from the "Perl hack" syndrome.

Perl suffers from an image problem, and there are people going around
imagining that Perl cannot be used for 'serious' applications, and that
anything written in Perl is a hack (in the bad sense). This is simply not
true.

Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
solve Sys Admin-type problems.

So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

Semantic snobbery, no doubt.
 
M

mike blamires

Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
(in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
solve Sys Admin-type problems.

So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?

Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the day,
whether you define it as a script and get it interpreted at runtime or
compile it into a program (if you wish to use such definitions). Perl does
have an image problem, mainly because it can look so messy at times and
there are a few dodgy looking solutions (probably mine ;) out there but
good Perl is almost art and does a stonking job, and there is plenty of
this around.

There are many many Perl programs/scripts out there that are way more
complicated than many 'programmers' works in Java, C/C++ etc...

</2p>
Mike
http://www.blamires.co.uk/
 
S

Steve The Geek

Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the day...

The difference between a 'scripter' and a 'programmer' is determined
by what happens when you bring up an error to them and ask for a fix:

The Scripter will look at you and think for a moment -- and fix the
code.

The Programmer will look at you as if you've just said, 'Go shove a
weasel up your ass,' and will blame the networking group.

HTH

HAND

Steve the (perl/tk) Geek
 
D

Doug Hutcheson

Definitely semantic snobbery! Its all computer code at the end of the
day...

The difference between a 'scripter' and a 'programmer' is determined
by what happens when you bring up an error to them and ask for a fix:

The Scripter will look at you and think for a moment -- and fix the
code.

The Programmer will look at you as if you've just said, 'Go shove a
weasel up your ass,' and will blame the networking group.

HTH

HAND

Steve the (perl/tk) Geek[/QUOTE]

LOL ! "8-D
Doug the Scripter.....
 
K

krakle

Mothra said:
Semantic question here: what's the difference between a script and a
program? At what stage can you call your Perl script a program for
example? And at what stage can you call yourself a Perl programmer?

I encounter some snobbery from time to time with programmers telling me
that what I'm doing is "just scripting", whereas the stuff they write
(in Java, ColdFusion, C++ etc) is "real programming".

Well yes, I'm a lowly Sys Admin, and I've only been using Perl for about
3 years, but I've written some big and complex "scripts" in Perl to
solve Sys Admin-type problems.

So is there a real difference, or is it just semantic snobbery?


Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
language that needs to be compiled programming. Whatever floats your
boat.
 
W

Walter Roberson

:Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
:language that needs to be compiled programming.

Yet you never (or rarely) hear of "LISP scripting" or even of
"FORTH scripting".
 
T

Tad McClellan

^^^^^^^^^^

It's Archie Bunkerisms earn a smirk everytime it does it.

So we are script programmers :-D. We should be paid extra since we do
two things at the same time ;-)


You mean _you_ aren't being paid extra already?

We all think that that is a shame.

:)
 
J

John Bokma

Walter said:
:Well a lot of folks consider an interputed language scripting and a
:language that needs to be compiled programming.

Yet you never (or rarely) hear of "LISP scripting" or even of
"FORTH scripting".

LOL. How does one script a Forth Processor ;-). IIRC there is even LISP
in silicon :-D.
 
J

John Bokma

Tad said:
Perl is compiled.

Java is interpreted on my computer. So am I a Java scripter? Oh, wait,
JavaScript is a different language. Funny how the same work I do can
change from scripting to programming by moving my program to a different
platform.

A programmer is one who is able to write a script ;-)
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

A programmer is one who is able to write a script ;-)

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

On my "first computer" (which was already obsolete when I met it in
1958), the real experts couldn't be bothered to print out the answer -
they just walked over and read it off the dekatrons.
 
B

Ben Morrow

Quoth John Bokma said:
Java is interpreted on my computer.

All programs are ultimately interpreted, even if that is machine code
interpreted in hardware (or, in the case of Pentiums, JIT compiled to a
lower level of machine code... :). Some languages are compiled (into
another language) before interpretation, some are not.

FWIW, I'd say the difference between a program and a script is that a
script is simply a (relatively) trivial automation of something one
could do by hand whereas a program is more complex than that. Language is
irrelevant.

Ben
 

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