an application for 1000 users

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by Jamunt@gmail.com, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Hi,

    I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    into the database.


    Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    stand this kind of web service.


    Regards,
    Jamunt
    , Dec 7, 2006
    #1
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  2. You'll need to work out how long a transaction takes on the architecture you
    expect to use. ASP.NET and webservices wont have a problem with that volume
    of users, but your server hardware and internet pipe may well have.

    Read some good articles on planning and design. scale up and architecture

    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/ms979199.aspx

    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa478997.aspx

    --
    Regards

    John Timney (MVP)
    VISIT MY WEBSITE:
    http://www.johntimney.com
    http://www.johntimney.com/blog


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    > served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    > data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    > into the database.
    >
    >
    > Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    > kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    > right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    > stand this kind of web service.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jamunt
    >
    John Timney \(MVP\), Dec 7, 2006
    #2
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  3. Mark Rae Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    > served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    > data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    > into the database.
    >
    > Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    > kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    > right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    > stand this kind of web service.


    That number of users will not present any sort of challenge to the software
    you have chosen, so long as your hardware is up to it and you design your
    system efficiently.

    However, it will not do it for you on its own - you'll need to read up on
    efficient design practices, database concurrency and locking issues,
    scalability, failover etc...
    Mark Rae, Dec 7, 2006
    #3
  4. bruce barker Guest

    your main issue will be how long the uploads take. a 1000 users are not
    many for a website, but if the requests take very long then you have a
    problem. iis will only support about 200 concurrent requests (default
    config is a lot lower). if some of the users are dialup or use slow
    networks and you really have 500-1000 concurrent users you will need a
    web farm. you will want to configure the webservers and asp.net for max
    connections to limit the number of machines.



    -- bruce (sqlwork.com)



    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    > served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    > data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    > into the database.
    >
    >
    > Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    > kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    > right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    > stand this kind of web service.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jamunt
    >
    bruce barker, Dec 7, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    Hi ,

    In my scenerio

    10 users will upload big chunk of data (8-10 mb) that might take 20 sec
    - 1 min to process the request.

    990 user will upload small data and call might take - 1 sec.

    Will web gardening of IIS will help here ?

    Regards,
    Jamunt


    bruce barker wrote:
    > your main issue will be how long the uploads take. a 1000 users are not
    > many for a website, but if the requests take very long then you have a
    > problem. iis will only support about 200 concurrent requests (default
    > config is a lot lower). if some of the users are dialup or use slow
    > networks and you really have 500-1000 concurrent users you will need a
    > web farm. you will want to configure the webservers and asp.net for max
    > connections to limit the number of machines.
    >
    >
    >
    > -- bruce (sqlwork.com)
    >
    >
    >
    > wrote:
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    > > served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    > > data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    > > into the database.
    > >
    > >
    > > Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    > > kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    > > right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    > > stand this kind of web service.
    > >
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Jamunt
    > >
    , Dec 8, 2006
    #5
  6. You should distinguish between "web garden" and "web farm".

    "Web garden" refers to setting affinity for more than one processor in the same
    machine, so that more processors can process ASP.NET requests.

    The ASP.NET QuickStarts explains web gardening well :
    http://samples.gotdotnet.com/quickstart/aspplus/doc/procmodel.aspx

    "Web farm" refers to more than one machine running the same ASP.NET application(s).

    If your current server has more than one processor, "web gardening" will help you somewhat,
    although what will be the main limiting factor is not the server's processing capacity, but its
    network pipeline capacity, i.e., the bandwidth available for input/output from and to the server.

    If your current server has only one processor, you cannot use "web gardening".

    If your server has more than one processor, thread processing will improve
    although I'm not sure you have a processing bottleneck at the levels you describe.

    The size and number of the requests you describe are relatively immaterial.

    It's their *concurrency* that's really important, as Bruce said.

    If you have up to a hundred concurrent requests, and if you have
    the necessary bandwidth, you should have no problem.

    If you have more than that, you should consider a web farm.


    Michèle Leroux Bustamante wrote an article named "The Quest for ASP.NET Scalability",
    which you should review and understand :

    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa479040.aspx

    Michèle explains some of the architectural and design decisions that may affect ASP.NET application
    scalability.
    She also explains how you can use Enterprise Services and MSMQ to reduce the effect of those
    scalability problems.
    Read the article and download the sample code :
    http://download.microsoft.com/downl...6f-a327-79c4b7c887f7/msdnscalabilityquest.msi

    You may be able to optimize your application -a lot- by implementing some of her recommendations.

    This video by Chris Adams, on "Finding IIS Bottlenecks using Server Performance Advisor 2.0"
    will also be of help :

    View the video online :
    http://www.iis.net/default.aspx?tabid=2&subtabid=26&i=19

    Or download it :
    http://www.iis.net/downloads/webcasts/Technet Webcast - Finding IIS Bottlenecks using SPA 2.0.wmv

    You can download the Server Performance Advisor 2.0 for Windows Server 2003 here :
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...20-8c9d-46b9-a9a5-9bffcd237da2&DisplayLang=en





    Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
    asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
    foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
    ===================================

    <> wrote in message news:...
    > Hi ,
    >
    > In my scenerio
    >
    > 10 users will upload big chunk of data (8-10 mb) that might take 20 sec
    > - 1 min to process the request.
    >
    > 990 user will upload small data and call might take - 1 sec.
    >
    > Will web gardening of IIS will help here ?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Jamunt
    >
    >
    > bruce barker wrote:
    >> your main issue will be how long the uploads take. a 1000 users are not
    >> many for a website, but if the requests take very long then you have a
    >> problem. iis will only support about 200 concurrent requests (default
    >> config is a lot lower). if some of the users are dialup or use slow
    >> networks and you really have 500-1000 concurrent users you will need a
    >> web farm. you will want to configure the webservers and asp.net for max
    >> connections to limit the number of machines.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> -- bruce (sqlwork.com)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> wrote:
    >> > Hi,
    >> >
    >> > I want to create an application in which around 1000 users will be
    >> > served at one time. All of the users will be sending around 1 mb of
    >> > data. I will be parsing that data and would insert some of the data
    >> > into the database.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Is web service right choice for this kind of web applications. What
    >> > kind of performance problems i might encounter. Will ASP.net is the
    >> > right choice for this kind of application . And will IIS 6 is able to
    >> > stand this kind of web service.
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > Regards,
    >> > Jamunt
    >> >

    >
    Juan T. Llibre, Dec 8, 2006
    #6
  7. Mark Rae Guest

    "Juan T. Llibre" <> wrote in message
    news:%...

    > "Web garden" refers to setting affinity for more than one processor in the
    > same
    > machine, so that more processors can process ASP.NET requests.


    Does that apply to dual-core processors which, although only one physical
    unit, are treated as two separate processors by the OS...?

    > "Web farm" refers to more than one machine running the same ASP.NET
    > application(s).


    If you have a web farm made up of multi-processor machines, can you be
    gardening while you're farming...?
    Mark Rae, Dec 8, 2006
    #7
  8. re:
    > Does that apply to dual-core processors which, although only one physical unit, are treated as two
    > separate processors by the OS...?


    Interesting question, to which I don't know the answer.
    If there's true separation between the CPU cores, I'd imagine so.

    re:
    > If you have a web farm made up of multi-processor machines, can you be gardening while you're
    > farming...?


    Yes, and that *will* increase your servers' throughputs.




    Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
    asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
    foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
    ===================================
    "Mark Rae" <> wrote in message news:...
    > "Juan T. Llibre" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >
    >> "Web garden" refers to setting affinity for more than one processor in the same
    >> machine, so that more processors can process ASP.NET requests.

    >
    > Does that apply to dual-core processors which, although only one physical unit, are treated as two
    > separate processors by the OS...?
    >
    >> "Web farm" refers to more than one machine running the same ASP.NET application(s).

    >
    > If you have a web farm made up of multi-processor machines, can you be gardening while you're
    > farming...?
    >
    Juan T. Llibre, Dec 8, 2006
    #8
  9. Mark Rae Guest

    "Juan T. Llibre" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > re:
    >> Does that apply to dual-core processors which, although only one physical
    >> unit, are treated as two separate processors by the OS...?

    >
    > Interesting question, to which I don't know the answer.
    > If there's true separation between the CPU cores, I'd imagine so.


    Well, I'm typing this on a machine with an AMD 64-bit dual core chip and, so
    far as I can see, WinXP treats it as if it were two completely separate
    processors, even to the extent where there are two separate charts in Task
    Manager, Performance, CPU usage history...

    Device Manager also lists two identical chips...

    I'd imagine that ASP.NET gets the number of processors on the machine it's
    running on from the OS, not from the hardware directly, so I reckon it will
    see a dual-core chip as two separate processors, thereby allowing web
    gardening...
    Mark Rae, Dec 8, 2006
    #9
  10. re:
    > Well, I'm typing this on a machine with an AMD 64-bit dual core chip and, so far as I can see,
    > WinXP treats it as if it were two completely separate processors, even to the extent where there
    > are two separate charts in Task Manager, Performance, CPU usage history...
    >
    > Device Manager also lists two identical chips...


    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    I've been considering getting an AMD 64-bit dual core chip.

    What is (are?) its processor speed(s) ?
    Are you happy with its performance ?
    What type of video card are you using with it ?
    Are sufficient drivers available for peripherals ?
    Do 32-bit apps run OK on it ?

    That's a lot of questions, so I'll stop... ;-)
    Thanks for any insight you can provide.




    Juan T. Llibre, asp.net MVP
    asp.net faq : http://asp.net.do/faq/
    foros de asp.net, en español : http://asp.net.do/foros/
    ===================================
    "Mark Rae" <> wrote in message news:...
    > "Juan T. Llibre" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> re:
    >>> Does that apply to dual-core processors which, although only one physical unit, are treated as
    >>> two separate processors by the OS...?

    >>
    >> Interesting question, to which I don't know the answer.
    >> If there's true separation between the CPU cores, I'd imagine so.

    >
    > Well, I'm typing this on a machine with an AMD 64-bit dual core chip and, so far as I can see,
    > WinXP treats it as if it were two completely separate processors, even to the extent where there
    > are two separate charts in Task Manager, Performance, CPU usage history...
    >
    > Device Manager also lists two identical chips...
    >
    > I'd imagine that ASP.NET gets the number of processors on the machine it's running on from the OS,
    > not from the hardware directly, so I reckon it will see a dual-core chip as two separate
    > processors, thereby allowing web gardening...
    >
    Juan T. Llibre, Dec 8, 2006
    #10
  11. Mark Rae Guest

    "Juan T. Llibre" <> wrote in message
    news:%...

    > I've been considering getting an AMD 64-bit dual core chip.
    >
    > What is (are?) its processor speed(s) ?


    I think they go from 3800 to 4800:
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_13041,00.html

    > Are you happy with its performance ?


    Yes.

    > What type of video card are you using with it ?


    Unfortunately, an nVidia GeForce 6800. I say "unfortunately" because it
    doesn't work with Vista - causes BSOD constantly. If nVidia haven't produced
    decent drivers by the time Microsoft have patched VS.NET 2005 so that it
    will run properly on Vista, I'll have to get another graphics card...

    > Are sufficient drivers available for peripherals ?


    Yes, apart from the above.

    > Do 32-bit apps run OK on it ?


    Yes, but they run even better on a 64-bit OS. 64-bit SQL Server on 64-bit
    WinXP positively flies along...
    Mark Rae, Dec 8, 2006
    #11
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