An Ode To My Two Loves

Discussion in 'Python' started by Jamey Cribbs, Feb 5, 2005.

  1. Jamey Cribbs

    Jamey Cribbs Guest

    At the risk of calling my manhood into question, I humbly submit the
    following little diddy (which is a blatant rip-off of a heart wrenching
    melody of the '70s by that international superstar, Mary Macgregor):

    To the tune of "Torn Between Two Lovers":

    Torn between two languages, both of which are awesome tools
    Lovin' both of you is breakin' all the rules
    Torn between two incredibly awesome scripting languages, I'm
    startin' to drool
    Using you both is breakin' all the rules


    Is freedom of choice wonderful or a curse? I do a lot of scripting at
    my day job. Through the years, I've gone through what will probably
    seem a somewhat familiar progression of scripting languages. Started
    out with Tcl, moved to Perl when I began to do some serious text
    munging, moved back to Tcl/Tk when I needed to do some gui stuff, jumped
    to Python as I began to learn object oriented programming, told Python I
    needed more space and moved in with Ruby when I needed to do more gui
    stuff and wanted to use FXRuby.

    And that's where I stand now, Torn Between Two Scripting Languages.
    Python and Ruby are both so damn attractive that I can't commit to one
    of them. I don't want to settle down into a monogamous programming
    relationship. I mean, if you have Grace Kelly on one arm and Maureen
    O'Hara on the other (I'm old school), should you really have to give one
    of them up?

    Why can't my boss understand this? But no, he has to lecture me about
    the dangers of "foolin' around" with too many languages. "Oh sure", he
    says, "you're having fun now juggling two beautiful languages in the
    air. But how long can you keep living two lives? Sooner or later you
    are going to slip up and make a mistake. My god, man, what if you start
    leaving off the 'end' in your if statements? What if you forget that
    indentation DOES matter?! For the love of all that is sacred and holy,
    think of the programs!"

    My boss was always a little melodramatic.

    Anyway, I don't know why I'm typing this up. I just finished a major
    update to KirbyBase and I think I'm a little punch drunk. I have been
    spending a lot of time with Ruby lately and working on KirbyBase caused
    me to dive back into Python. Why do these two languages have to be so
    freakin' good! I know a lot of people see big differences in the
    languages, but I'm not one of them. I don't think I am a smart enough
    programmer to understand or ever be bothered by some of the more subtle
    or deeper differences that some people have pointed out. Ah, ignorance
    is bliss.

    Well, as long as I can keep my boss from finding out that I am in this
    programming love triangle, I think I will probably stay happily enmeshed
    in my little soap opera.

    Well, I think I will go now and listen to my Captain & Tenille
    records...why are you looking at me like that. I'm a happily married
    man with four kids. I like football and guns...really, I do!

    Under the influence of some kind of strange force and will probably be
    embarrassed when he snaps out of it,

    Jamey Cribbs
     
    Jamey Cribbs, Feb 5, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Jamey,

    Really, you should try to steer clear from your computer from time to
    time...
    Your mental health is more important than python or ruby, don't lose
    it!
     
    Luis M. Gonzalez, Feb 6, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Jamey Cribbs

    Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:33:47 -0500, Jamey Cribbs <> wrote:
    > At the risk of calling my manhood into question,

    ....
    > Under the influence of some kind of strange force and will probably be
    > embarrassed when he snaps out of it,


    You shouldn't be -- I don't think I've seen anyone talk much about this
    before, at least not from this angle.

    It's something that worries me frequently -- I feel guilty when I introduce
    Python into ("force Python upon") an organization. Because I hate having
    /other/ people's favorite toy languages forced down /my/ throat ...

    I also notice I forget one language after doing another for a few weeks. And
    it's not just brackets and semicolons -- I also try to use one language's
    idioms in the other. People who /claim/ they have no trouble switching
    languages seem to have the same problem.

    I refuse to think that Using One Language For Everything is the
    solution. But I cannot explain it rationally.

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <jgrahn@ Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
    \X/ algonet.se> R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
     
    Jorgen Grahn, Feb 6, 2005
    #3
  4. Jamey Cribbs

    Peter Maas Guest

    Jorgen Grahn schrieb:
    > It's something that worries me frequently -- I feel guilty when I introduce
    > Python into ("force Python upon") an organization. Because I hate having
    > /other/ people's favorite toy languages forced down /my/ throat ...


    The solution is a multi language glue layer. Software interfaces are
    defined in a language independent way so that they can be used by
    many languages.I wonder why COM is so dominant on Windows and most
    Unixish systems don't use CORBA (with GNOME as an exception).
    Microsoft's .net takes this one step further by defining a multi
    language implementation layer.

    I hope these ideas will become more influential in Unix like systems
    as well just to stop this resource wasting source code issue.

    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Tel +49-241-93878-0
    E-mail 'cGV0ZXIubWFhc0BtcGx1c3IuZGU=\n'.decode('base64')
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Peter Maas, Feb 8, 2005
    #4
  5. Jorgen Grahn <> wrote:

    > I also notice I forget one language after doing another for a few weeks. And
    > it's not just brackets and semicolons -- I also try to use one language's
    > idioms in the other. People who /claim/ they have no trouble switching
    > languages seem to have the same problem.


    I don't find it a problem as long as the languages are simple and
    well-separated. Python and C are a good example: each is simple, and
    each is pretty well-focused -- high-level vs low-level.

    It's not necessarily easy if you're continuously going back and forth
    between C++ and Java, for example -- in such a case, it seems to me that
    transitioning into the proper mindset for each language may well be a
    nonzero effort, since the languages aren't really all that simple, and
    they have quite some overlap despite all the differences.

    I have no experience with such switching between (say) Ruby and Python
    -- both simple but vastly overlapping in scope.


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Feb 8, 2005
    #5
  6. Jamey Cribbs

    Mike Meyer Guest

    Peter Maas <> writes:

    > Jorgen Grahn schrieb:
    >> It's something that worries me frequently -- I feel guilty when I introduce
    >> Python into ("force Python upon") an organization. Because I hate having
    >> /other/ people's favorite toy languages forced down /my/ throat ...

    >
    > The solution is a multi language glue layer. Software interfaces are
    > defined in a language independent way so that they can be used by
    > many languages.I wonder why COM is so dominant on Windows and most
    > Unixish systems don't use CORBA (with GNOME as an exception).
    > Microsoft's .net takes this one step further by defining a multi
    > language implementation layer.


    COM is dominant on Windows because MS pushes it. CORBA isn't dominant
    on Unix because there are a slew of extensible/embeddable languages to
    pick from instead - assuming the apps in question came up with a
    solution better than rolling their own. See <URL:
    http://www.mired.org:8080/home/mwm/scripting/ > for my thoughts on the
    matter before I learned better.

    > I hope these ideas will become more influential in Unix like systems
    > as well just to stop this resource wasting source code issue.


    XMLRPC seems to be displacing CORBA for interobject
    communications. It's not clear it's becoming an intercommunications
    tool for scripting applications.

    In any case, Plan 9 has a much better solution than COM, CORBA or
    XMLRPC. I can script plan 9 applications with the shell. I can't do
    that with CORBA (well, my quick search failed to turn up CORBA
    bindings for sh. It can probably be done with XMLRPC, but it would be
    ugly. The problem is that this requires fundamental changes in the
    underlying OS (by adding per-process mount points), but there's
    mention of experiments with that for Linux.

    <mike
    --
    Mike Meyer <> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
    Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
     
    Mike Meyer, Feb 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Jamey Cribbs

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>, Mike Meyer <> wrote:
    >
    >COM is dominant on Windows because MS pushes it. CORBA isn't dominant
    >on Unix because there are a slew of extensible/embeddable languages to
    >pick from instead - assuming the apps in question came up with a
    >solution better than rolling their own. See <URL:
    >http://www.mired.org:8080/home/mwm/scripting/ > for my thoughts on the
    >matter before I learned better.


    "Unable to connect to host"
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable
    classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code --
    not in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death." --GvR
     
    Aahz, Feb 9, 2005
    #7
  8. Jamey Cribbs

    Mike Meyer Guest

    (Aahz) writes:

    > In article <>, Mike Meyer <> wrote:
    >>
    >>COM is dominant on Windows because MS pushes it. CORBA isn't dominant
    >>on Unix because there are a slew of extensible/embeddable languages to
    >>pick from instead - assuming the apps in question came up with a
    >>solution better than rolling their own. See <URL:
    >>http://www.mired.org:8080/home/mwm/scripting/ > for my thoughts on the
    >>matter before I learned better.

    >
    > "Unable to connect to host"


    My bad. That should be http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/scripting/ .

    <mike
    --
    Mike Meyer <> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
    Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
     
    Mike Meyer, Feb 9, 2005
    #8
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Angela K
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    382
    Mad Hamish
    Oct 26, 2003
  2. Robert Oschler

    An ode to re.finditer()

    Robert Oschler, Aug 1, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    347
    Robert Oschler
    Aug 1, 2004
  3. Martin Maney

    Ubuntu Linux loves Python

    Martin Maney, Oct 2, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    8,274
    Alex Martelli
    Oct 29, 2004
  4. Ron Alford

    Ode to Urllib2

    Ron Alford, Oct 14, 2004, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    307
    Avi Berkovich
    Oct 15, 2004
  5. Ode to python

    , Sep 7, 2005, in forum: Python
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    416
Loading...

Share This Page