[ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta)

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Michael Granger, Apr 16, 2004.

  1. Hi,

    Hot on the heels of the initial release, I'd like to announce the
    second release of BlueCloth, the odd half-brother to Why's RedCloth.
    Let's just hope he's not one of those annoying younger brothers who
    tries to tag along after his older sibling to all the cool college
    parties, laughing inappropriately at inside jokes and telling
    embarrassing stories about him in front of the girls.

    This release adds further RedCloth compatibility, integrates some great
    filtery code contributed by Florian Gross, and, by popular demand, is
    distributed in the RubyGem format in addition to the other less-sparkly
    ones.

    Project page: http://bluecloth.rubyforge.org/
    Download: http://rubyforge.org/frs/?group_id=230&release_id=407

    If there aren't any major bugs found or compelling interface changes
    proposed in the next few weeks, this will become the 1.0 release.

    Thanks to all of you that have offered your suggestions and code. I
    have a local installation of Instiki using BlueCloth now, but I'm still
    working on a graceful way of allowing the user to choose which they
    prefer. I hope to do some real work on it this weekend, and perhaps
    will be able to submit something to David very soon.

    Have a good weekend,
    --
    Michael Granger <>
    Rubymage, Believer, Architect
    The FaerieMUD Consortium <http://www.FaerieMUD.org/>
     
    Michael Granger, Apr 16, 2004
    #1
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  2. BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    > Thanks to all of you that have offered your suggestions and code. I
    > have a local installation of Instiki using BlueCloth now, but I'm
    > still working on a graceful way of allowing the user to choose which
    > they prefer. I hope to do some real work on it this weekend, and
    > perhaps will be able to submit something to David very soon.


    Sounds awesome. Do have a look at the RDoc patch also discussed on this
    list. Perhaps you could work with that? Or improve upon it. I'd love to
    be able to have both RDoc and BlueCloth support in 0.7.

    Speaking of 0.7, is there any requests from the audience? Besides some
    much needed polish in a few needy spots, what would people like to see
    otherwise?
    --
    David Heinemeier Hansson,
    http://instiki.nextangle.com/ -- A No-Step-Three Wiki in Ruby
    http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management
    http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
     
    David Heinemeier Hansson, Apr 16, 2004
    #2
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  3. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    On Sat, Apr 17, 2004 at 07:05:19AM +0900, David Heinemeier Hansson wrote:
    > >Thanks to all of you that have offered your suggestions and code. I
    > >have a local installation of Instiki using BlueCloth now, but I'm
    > >still working on a graceful way of allowing the user to choose which
    > >they prefer. I hope to do some real work on it this weekend, and
    > >perhaps will be able to submit something to David very soon.

    >
    > Sounds awesome. Do have a look at the RDoc patch also discussed on this
    > list. Perhaps you could work with that? Or improve upon it. I'd love to
    > be able to have both RDoc and BlueCloth support in 0.7.


    In my patch the formatting engine is specified in the command line, and
    then something like

    if Object.const_defined?("OPTIONS") && OPTIONS[:markup] == :rdoc

    is used. A metadata-based system would be better but it's more work too ;)

    --
    Running Debian GNU/Linux Sid (unstable)
    batsman dot geo at yahoo dot com

    Even more amazing was the realization that God has Internet access. I
    wonder if He has a full newsfeed?
    -- Matt Welsh
     
    Mauricio Fernández, Apr 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    On Saturday, April 17, 2004, 8:05:19 AM, David wrote:

    >> Thanks to all of you that have offered your suggestions and code. I
    >> have a local installation of Instiki using BlueCloth now, but I'm
    >> still working on a graceful way of allowing the user to choose which
    >> they prefer. I hope to do some real work on it this weekend, and
    >> perhaps will be able to submit something to David very soon.


    > Sounds awesome. Do have a look at the RDoc patch also discussed on this
    > list. Perhaps you could work with that? Or improve upon it. I'd love to
    > be able to have both RDoc and BlueCloth support in 0.7.


    > Speaking of 0.7, is there any requests from the audience? Besides some
    > much needed polish in a few needy spots, what would people like to see
    > otherwise?


    A list, on each page, of all the pages that link to it.

    A list, on each page, of all the pages that are "similar" (for some
    value of "similar"). E.g. two pages are similar if they have x%
    coincidence of y% of the words on the page, or something. This
    obviously requires some thought and experimentation, but it seems like
    a cool thing to do.

    Keywords. Give each page arbitrary keywords to enable "browsing by
    keyword". When you add a keyword to a page, make it selectable from a
    drop-down list of all existing keywords to make it easier. Of course
    new ones can be added.

    Templates. Createable and selectable via drop-downs. Say I want to
    write man pages (shyeah, right!), then I might create a template
    containing the headings "Name", "Synopsis", "Description", "Features",
    etc.

    A quick search feature (I doubt this is possible in a web app),
    whereby *as you are entering* the search term, you are given a visual
    cue as to how many nodes match it so far. This is a Info Select's
    only killer feature.

    Integration with a blogger, enabling the blog to link to the
    WikiSpace and the WikiSpace to display references from the blog, just
    like (I requested) it shows references from other WikiPages.

    Some way of creating/editing a node in RTF on your own machine and
    uploading it to the Wiki.

    There's my dream list!

    Cheers,
    Gavin
     
    Gavin Sinclair, Apr 17, 2004
    #4
  5. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    Gavin Sinclair wrote:

    Nice requests. I just couldn't resist commenting on some of them. :)

    > A list, on each page, of all the pages that link to it.


    Already available AFAIK.

    > Keywords. Give each page arbitrary keywords to enable "browsing by
    > keyword". When you add a keyword to a page, make it selectable from a
    > drop-down list of all existing keywords to make it easier. Of course
    > new ones can be added.


    This is usually done by just adding links to Category pages on other
    Wikis. (You'll get the "pages that link to this category page" list.)

    > A quick search feature (I doubt this is possible in a web app),
    > whereby *as you are entering* the search term, you are given a visual
    > cue as to how many nodes match it so far. This is a Info Select's
    > only killer feature.


    Hm, this would be more or less possible with JavaScript and an embedded
    <iframe>, but I doubt that it would be responsive enough. (It will have
    to fetch a new page after every 2-3 new letters or so.)

    > Cheers,
    > Gavin


    Regards,
    Florian Gross
     
    Florian Gross, Apr 17, 2004
    #5
  6. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    On Saturday, April 17, 2004, 2:24:10 PM, Florian wrote:

    > Gavin Sinclair wrote:


    > Nice requests. I just couldn't resist commenting on some of them. :)


    >> A list, on each page, of all the pages that link to it.


    > Already available AFAIK.


    Ah good. I'm a bit behind the curve.


    >> Keywords. Give each page arbitrary keywords to enable "browsing by
    >> keyword". When you add a keyword to a page, make it selectable from a
    >> drop-down list of all existing keywords to make it easier. Of course
    >> new ones can be added.


    > This is usually done by just adding links to Category pages on other
    > Wikis. (You'll get the "pages that link to this category page" list.)


    Yeah, but I think this should become a first-class feature.


    >> A quick search feature (I doubt this is possible in a web app),
    >> whereby *as you are entering* the search term, you are given a visual
    >> cue as to how many nodes match it so far. This is a Info Select's
    >> only killer feature.


    > Hm, this would be more or less possible with JavaScript and an embedded
    > <iframe>, but I doubt that it would be responsive enough. (It will have
    > to fetch a new page after every 2-3 new letters or so.)


    Oh well, more possible than I thought, but yeah -- responsiveness is
    king.

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Sinclair, Apr 17, 2004
    #6
  7. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    il Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:46:23 +0900, Gavin Sinclair
    <> ha scritto::


    >
    >A list, on each page, of all the pages that are "similar" (for some
    >value of "similar"). E.g. two pages are similar if they have x%
    >coincidence of y% of the words on the page, or something. This
    >obviously requires some thought and experimentation, but it seems like
    >a cool thing to do.


    I believe it would be better to just have a 'LikePages' link that
    bring you to a page with the results from the like-search.
    IIRC the likesearch from Portland Pattern Repository does this
    searching names that have one of the WikiWord matching (i.e.
    IntikiHome ~ InstikiRulez ~ RubyRulez ).
    Btw, the neat fuzzy matching alghoritm on rubyforge would be cool too
    :)
     
    gabriele renzi, Apr 17, 2004
    #7
  8. On Sat 17 Apr 2004 at 00:35:48 +0900, Michael Granger wrote:

    > Hot on the heels of the initial release, I'd like to announce the
    > second release of BlueCloth, the odd half-brother to Why's RedCloth.
    > Let's just hope he's not one of those annoying younger brothers who
    > tries to tag along after his older sibling to all the cool college
    > parties, laughing inappropriately at inside jokes and telling
    > embarrassing stories about him in front of the girls.


    The README makes reference to a sample program in the bin directory,
    called bluecloth. However, the tar archive contains neither the file nor
    the directory.

    Ian
    --
    Ian Macdonald | The aim of a joke is not to degrade the
    System Administrator | human being but to remind him that he is
    | already degraded. -- George Orwell
    http://www.caliban.org |
    |
     
    Ian Macdonald, Apr 17, 2004
    #8
  9. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    * David Heinemeier Hansson <>:
    >> Thanks to all of you that have offered your suggestions and code. I
    >> have a local installation of Instiki using BlueCloth now, but I'm
    >> still working on a graceful way of allowing the user to choose which
    >> they prefer. I hope to do some real work on it this weekend, and
    >> perhaps will be able to submit something to David very soon.

    >
    > Sounds awesome. Do have a look at the RDoc patch also discussed on this
    > list. Perhaps you could work with that? Or improve upon it. I'd love to
    > be able to have both RDoc and BlueCloth support in 0.7.
    >
    > Speaking of 0.7, is there any requests from the audience? Besides some
    > much needed polish in a few needy spots, what would people like to see
    > otherwise?


    Great work, David.

    One feature I'd appreciate is a page listing all "orphaned" pages (pages
    that no other page links to), and a page with all "undefined" pages
    (wiki-links that do not yet have a corresponding wiki-page). These pages
    are really nice to have when you're "gardening" your wiki :)

    Also - it would be nice to be able to use some kind of plugin system.
    That way the user can extend the wiki in his/hers own way.

    //Anders

    --
    /**
    * Anders Engström,
    * -------------------------------------
    * Your mind is like an umbrella.
    * It doesn't work unless you open it.
    * /Frank Zappa
    */
     
    Anders Engström, Apr 17, 2004
    #9
  10. Michael Granger

    Dick Davies Guest

    Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    * David Heinemeier Hansson <> [0407 23:07]:

    > Speaking of 0.7, is there any requests from the audience? Besides some
    > much needed polish in a few needy spots, what would people like to see
    > otherwise?


    It's not a wiki feature so much, but is there a reason you don't use the
    rubygem format? I noticed you ship your own versions of redcloth and madeleine,
    both of those have gems now so they could automatically be installed on demand
    as part of the instiki install. BlueCloth has one too, as of last week, I think.

    I'm looking to move a smallish usemod wiki over in the next month or so, but
    didn't you say the format broke around 0.5.0? I don't mind doing The Great Paste
    once, but every week or two (I like 'release often') would be annoying.

    So can I add backwards compatibility (or better yet and upgrade utility) to the wishlist.

    And finally a user prefs page, but that's just me being a usemod weenie.


    Thanks a lot for Instiki, by the way. I've been looking for a good ruby wiki that was
    easy to setup and used Textile since last year, this hits the nail on the head.

    Cheers!

    --
    Quigley's Law:
    Whoever has any authority over you, no matter how small, will
    atttempt to use it.
    Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
     
    Dick Davies, Apr 17, 2004
    #10
  11. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    > It's not a wiki feature so much, but is there a reason you don't use
    > the
    > rubygem format? I noticed you ship your own versions of redcloth and
    > madeleine,
    > both of those have gems now so they could automatically be installed
    > on demand
    > as part of the instiki install. BlueCloth has one too, as of last
    > week, I think.


    I remember reading that it was still undecided whether gems would make
    sense for applications or whether they should just be for libraries. Is
    the verdict in on this yet? If gems are suitable for applications,
    where should I storage the Madeleine databases and zip dumps? I'd
    rather not hide that away in /usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/instiki
    -- or similar. Suggestions?

    > I'm looking to move a smallish usemod wiki over in the next month or
    > so, but
    > didn't you say the format broke around 0.5.0? I don't mind doing The
    > Great Paste
    > once, but every week or two (I like 'release often') would be annoying.


    Out of six releases, the format broke once. And the only reason I
    didn't do a converter was because nobody expressed an interest (and I
    didn't need one yet). Any future format breaks will be accompaigned
    with a converter.

    > And finally a user prefs page, but that's just me being a usemod
    > weenie.


    For now, I think I like the idea of no preferences to keep it simple.
    Perhaps that's just because I can't really see the use in many of the
    options available for UseMod.

    http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=editprefs

    > Thanks a lot for Instiki, by the way. I've been looking for a good
    > ruby wiki that was
    > easy to setup and used Textile since last year, this hits the nail on
    > the head.


    Thank you all. The immense interest has certainly increased my
    motivation for putting out new versions faster.
    --
    David Heinemeier Hansson,
    http://instiki.nextangle.com/ -- A No-Step-Three Wiki in Ruby
    http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management
    http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
     
    David Heinemeier Hansson, Apr 18, 2004
    #11
  12. Instiki as a gem (was Re: BlueCloth on Instiki)

    On Monday, April 19, 2004, 2:14:29 AM, David wrote:

    >> It's not a wiki feature so much, but is there a reason you don't use
    >> the
    >> rubygem format? I noticed you ship your own versions of redcloth and
    >> madeleine,
    >> both of those have gems now so they could automatically be installed
    >> on demand
    >> as part of the instiki install. BlueCloth has one too, as of last
    >> week, I think.


    > I remember reading that it was still undecided whether gems would make
    > sense for applications or whether they should just be for libraries. Is
    > the verdict in on this yet? If gems are suitable for applications,
    > where should I storage the Madeleine databases and zip dumps? I'd
    > rather not hide that away in
    > /usr/local/lib/ruby/site_ruby/1.8/instiki
    > -- or similar. Suggestions?


    RubyGems 0.3 won't be much longer, in which applications are certainly
    possible. The gem lists all the files that are to become
    applications, and creates wrappers for them in /usr/local/bin or
    whereever (I'm sure it works on Windows too!). It's a sight to
    behold.

    As for storing the program data, I don't know. Where is it stored at
    the moment?

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Sinclair, Apr 18, 2004
    #12
  13. Michael Granger

    Chad Fowler Guest

    Re: Instiki as a gem (was Re: BlueCloth on Instiki)

    On 18/4/2004, at 12:26 PM, Gavin Sinclair wrote:

    > On Monday, April 19, 2004, 2:14:29 AM, David wrote:
    > RubyGems 0.3 won't be much longer, in which applications are certainly
    > possible. The gem lists all the files that are to become
    > applications, and creates wrappers for them in /usr/local/bin or
    > whereever (I'm sure it works on Windows too!). It's a sight to
    > behold.
    >
    > As for storing the program data, I don't know. Where is it stored at
    > the moment?
    >


    Right now, you're just writing the madeleine files under the current
    working directory, right? I would say this makes sense even if you've
    got an installed application (e.g. an application gem). So, hopefully
    it would just work the same as a gem or as a standalone program.

    Chad
     
    Chad Fowler, Apr 18, 2004
    #13
  14. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    David Heinemeier Hansson wrote:
    > Speaking of 0.7, is there any requests from the audience? Besides some
    > much needed polish in a few needy spots, what would people like to see
    > otherwise?


    I just downloaded and had a look on the weekand. Looks very nice.

    But since you ask, I find a diff feature very practical, so I can see
    what people (also me) have changed. Also a last edit date (possibly
    version) is great.

    Thanks

    Torsten
     
    Torsten Rueger, Apr 19, 2004
    #14
  15. Michael Granger

    Dick Davies Guest

    Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    * David Heinemeier Hansson <> [0414 17:14]:

    <snip gems bit that Gavin answered better than I can>

    > >I don't mind doing The Great Paste
    > >once, but every week or two (I like 'release often') would be annoying.


    > Out of six releases, the format broke once. And the only reason I
    > didn't do a converter was because nobody expressed an interest (and I
    > didn't need one yet). Any future format breaks will be accompaigned
    > with a converter.


    Great, thanks. For some reason I had it in my head that was going to be
    a problem for a while.


    > >And finally a user prefs page, but that's just me being a usemod
    > >weenie.

    >
    > For now, I think I like the idea of no preferences to keep it simple.
    > Perhaps that's just because I can't really see the use in many of the
    > options available for UseMod.
    >
    > http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=editprefs


    The only feature I really use is the username part, so you can see who
    edited a page. That'd be the only thing worth porting IMO.

    --
    Demographic polls show that you have lost credibility across the
    board. Especially with those 14 year-old Valley girls.
    Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
     
    Dick Davies, Apr 19, 2004
    #15
  16. Michael Granger

    John Platte Guest

    [OT] Wiki prefs (was Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta)))

    On 2004 Apr 19, at 17:03, Dick Davies wrote:

    > The only feature I really use is the username part, so you can see who
    > edited a page. That'd be the only thing worth porting IMO.


    That's the only preference I know of for the c2 wiki:

    http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?UserName

    pmWiki (which see, it's well done) provides a field to edit your
    username on the edit screen each time you edit, but persists it in a
    cookie:

    http://pmwiki.org/

    --
    Ryan "John" Platte
    Custom services, NIKA Consulting
    http://nikaconsulting.com/
     
    John Platte, Apr 19, 2004
    #16
  17. On Apr 17, 2004, at 2:38 AM, Ian Macdonald wrote:

    > The README makes reference to a sample program in the bin directory,
    > called bluecloth. However, the tar archive contains neither the file
    > nor
    > the directory.


    Ack. It'll be in the next release. In the meantime, you can download it
    here:

    http://dev.faeriemud.org/~deveiant/BlueCloth/bin/bluecloth

    --
    Michael Granger <>
    Rubymage, Architect, Believer
    The FaerieMUD Consortium <http://www.FaerieMUD.org/>
     
    Michael Granger, Apr 19, 2004
    #17
  18. Re: BlueCloth on Instiki (was Re: [ANN] BlueCloth 0.0.2 (beta))

    > The only feature I really use is the username part, so you can see who
    > edited a page. That'd be the only thing worth porting IMO.


    Instiki already has that. The cookie is currently only kept for the
    session, but I'm going to change that for the next version. Each
    revision of a page is stamped with this author name (which defaults to
    AnonymousCoward to encourage changing).
    --
    David Heinemeier Hansson,
    http://instiki.nextangle.com/ -- A No-Step-Three Wiki in Ruby
    http://www.basecamphq.com/ -- Web-based Project Management
    http://www.loudthinking.com/ -- Broadcasting Brain
     
    David Heinemeier Hansson, Apr 20, 2004
    #18
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