[ANN] god 0.1.0 released

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Tom Werner, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. Tom Werner

    Tom Werner Guest

    I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!

    http://god.rubyforge.org/


    WHAT IS GOD?

    God is an easy to configure, easy to extend monitoring framework written
    in Ruby.

    Keeping your server processes and tasks running should be a simple part
    of your deployment process. God aims to be the simplest, most powerful
    monitoring application available.


    DISCLAIMER

    God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I
    do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally
    use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.


    INSTALL

    sudo gem install god

    * note: currently tested only on Redhat Linux and Darwin (won't work on
    Windows)


    FEATURES

    * Config file is written in Ruby
    * Easily write your own custom conditions in Ruby
    * Supports both poll and event based conditions
    * Different poll conditions can have different intervals


    EXAMPLE

    The easiest way to understand how god will make your life better is by
    looking at a sample config file. The following configuration file is
    what I use at gravatar.com to keep the mongrels running:

    # file: gravatar.god
    # run with: god start -c /path/to/gravatar.god
    #
    # This is the actual config file used to keep the mongrels of
    # gravatar.com running.

    RAILS_ROOT = "/var/www/gravatar2/current"

    God.meddle do |god|
    %w{8200 8201 8202}.each do |port|
    god.watch do |w|
    w.name = "gravatar2-mongrel-#{port}"
    w.interval = 30 # seconds
    w.start = "mongrel_rails cluster::start --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.stop = "mongrel_rails cluster::stop --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.grace = 10 # seconds

    pid_file = File.join(RAILS_ROOT, "log/mongrel.#{port}.pid")

    w.behavior:)clean_pid_file) do |b|
    b.pid_file = pid_file
    end

    w.start_if do |start|
    start.condition:)process_not_running) do |c|
    c.interval = 5 # seconds
    c.pid_file = pid_file
    end
    end

    w.restart_if do |restart|
    restart.condition:)memory_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file = pid_file
    c.above = (150 * 1024) # 150mb
    c.times = [3, 5] # 3 out of 5 intervals
    end

    restart.condition:)cpu_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file = pid_file
    c.above = 50 # percent
    c.times = 5
    end
    end
    end
    end
    end


    DOCS

    Detailed documentation is available at http://god.rubyforge.org/


    CHANGES

    == 0.1.0 / 2007-07-07

    * 1 major enhancement
    * Birthday!


    AUTHOR

    Tom Preston-Werner
    Tom Werner, Jul 9, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Tom Werner

    Todd Burch Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    Why would you pick the name "god"? Surely there are more appropriate
    names for a piece of software.

    Todd Burch (yes, I am a Christian)

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    Todd Burch, Jul 9, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Re: god 0.1.0 released

    Wayne E. Seguin wrote:
    > On Jul 09, 2007, at 15:05 , Todd Burch wrote:
    >> Why would you pick the name "god"? Surely there are more appropriate
    >> names for a piece of software.
    >>
    >> Todd Burch (yes, I am a Christian)

    >
    > haha! I was waiting for a comment on that!
    >
    > To me the name makes much sense because that is effectively what the
    > "piece of software" does, it plays god with the lives of daemons and
    > processes. Hence seems to be named very well to me.


    Maybe "god" is simply an acronym, as proposed by Douglas Hofstadter:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=god over djinn

    You can s/djinn/daemon/ if you like.

    --
    vjoel : Joel VanderWerf : path berkeley edu : 510 665 3407
    Joel VanderWerf, Jul 9, 2007
    #3
  4. Tom Werner

    Trans Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    I'm basically agnostic, but I still find "god" a poor name. It just
    has too much semantic weight. An ancient name for god may carry
    better, like "Deus".

    My 2c.
    T.
    Trans, Jul 9, 2007
    #4
  5. Tom Werner

    John Joyce Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    On Jul 9, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Trans wrote:

    > I'm basically agnostic, but I still find "god" a poor name. It just
    > has too much semantic weight. An ancient name for god may carry
    > better, like "Deus".
    >
    > My 2c.
    > T.
    >
    >



    Oh my god!
    John Joyce, Jul 10, 2007
    #5
  6. Re: god 0.1.0 released

    On 7/10/07, Trans <> wrote:
    > I'm basically agnostic, but I still find "god" a poor name. It just
    > has too much semantic weight. An ancient name for god may carry
    > better, like "Deus".


    My monitoring framework was called abyss, for it keeps my daemons :)

    ^ manveru
    Michael Fellinger, Jul 10, 2007
    #6
  7. Tom Werner wrote:
    > I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!
    >
    > http://god.rubyforge.org/


    You need to add God.smite()

    --
    Travis Warlick

    "Programming in Java is like dealing with your mom --
    it's kind, forgiving, and gently chastising.
    Programming in C++ is like dealing with a disgruntled
    girlfriend -- it's cold, unforgiving, and doesn't tell
    you what you've done wrong."
    Travis D Warlick Jr, Jul 10, 2007
    #7
  8. Tom Werner wrote:
    > I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!
    >
    > http://god.rubyforge.org/
    >
    >
    > WHAT IS GOD?
    >
    > God is an easy to configure, easy to extend monitoring framework written
    > in Ruby.
    >
    > Keeping your server processes and tasks running should be a simple part
    > of your deployment process. God aims to be the simplest, most powerful
    > monitoring application available.
    >
    >
    > DISCLAIMER
    >
    > God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I
    > do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally
    > use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.
    >
    >
    > INSTALL
    >
    > sudo gem install god
    >
    > * note: currently tested only on Redhat Linux and Darwin (won't work on
    > Windows)
    >
    >
    > FEATURES
    >
    > * Config file is written in Ruby
    > * Easily write your own custom conditions in Ruby
    > * Supports both poll and event based conditions
    > * Different poll conditions can have different intervals
    >
    >
    > EXAMPLE
    >
    > The easiest way to understand how god will make your life better is by
    > looking at a sample config file. The following configuration file is
    > what I use at gravatar.com to keep the mongrels running:
    >
    > # file: gravatar.god
    > # run with: god start -c /path/to/gravatar.god
    > #
    > # This is the actual config file used to keep the mongrels of
    > # gravatar.com running.
    >
    > RAILS_ROOT = "/var/www/gravatar2/current"
    >
    > God.meddle do |god|
    > %w{8200 8201 8202}.each do |port|
    > god.watch do |w|
    > w.name = "gravatar2-mongrel-#{port}"
    > w.interval = 30 # seconds
    > w.start = "mongrel_rails cluster::start --only #{port} \
    > -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    > w.stop = "mongrel_rails cluster::stop --only #{port} \
    > -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    > w.grace = 10 # seconds
    > pid_file = File.join(RAILS_ROOT, "log/mongrel.#{port}.pid")
    > w.behavior:)clean_pid_file) do |b|
    > b.pid_file = pid_file
    > end
    >
    > w.start_if do |start|
    > start.condition:)process_not_running) do |c|
    > c.interval = 5 # seconds
    > c.pid_file = pid_file
    > end
    > end
    > w.restart_if do |restart|
    > restart.condition:)memory_usage) do |c|
    > c.pid_file = pid_file
    > c.above = (150 * 1024) # 150mb
    > c.times = [3, 5] # 3 out of 5 intervals
    > end
    > restart.condition:)cpu_usage) do |c|
    > c.pid_file = pid_file
    > c.above = 50 # percent
    > c.times = 5
    > end
    > end
    > end
    > end
    > end
    >
    >
    > DOCS
    >
    > Detailed documentation is available at http://god.rubyforge.org/
    >
    >
    > CHANGES
    >
    > == 0.1.0 / 2007-07-07
    >
    > * 1 major enhancement
    > * Birthday!
    >
    >
    > AUTHOR
    >
    > Tom Preston-Werner
    >
    >


    Interesting ... the Gang of Four say you shouldn't have a "god" class,
    but you went and did it anyway. :)
    M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Jul 10, 2007
    #8
  9. On 7/9/07, Tom Werner <> wrote:

    > DISCLAIMER
    >
    > God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I
    > do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally
    > use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.


    Doesn't that just mean you have faith in God?
    Gregory Brown, Jul 10, 2007
    #9
  10. Tom Werner

    Tim Pease Guest

    On 7/9/07, Gregory Brown <> wrote:
    > On 7/9/07, Tom Werner <> wrote:
    >
    > > DISCLAIMER
    > >
    > > God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I
    > > do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally
    > > use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.

    >
    > Doesn't that just mean you have faith in God?
    >
    >



    God.smite( Thread.current )


    TwP
    Tim Pease, Jul 10, 2007
    #10
  11. Tom Werner

    Mark Gallop Guest

    Travis D Warlick Jr wrote:
    > Tom Werner wrote:
    >
    >> I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!
    >>
    >> http://god.rubyforge.org/
    >>

    >
    > You need to add God.smite()
    >


    Hahaha, I liked that one.

    Mark
    Mark Gallop, Jul 10, 2007
    #11
  12. Tom Werner

    John Joyce Guest

    On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:21 PM, Mark Gallop wrote:

    > Travis D Warlick Jr wrote:
    >> Tom Werner wrote:
    >>
    >>> I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!
    >>>
    >>> http://god.rubyforge.org/
    >>>

    >>
    >> You need to add God.smite()
    >>

    >
    > Hahaha, I liked that one.
    >
    > Mark
    >

    Hey Apple has had a system command 'bless' for decades!
    In the old Mac OS (pre OS X) it was a common troubleshooting activity
    to 'bless the system folder' !
    Ruby already has the method taint!
    Why not some things like:
    curse()
    cure()
    judge()
    miracle
    plague()
    resurrect()
    inspire()
    create()
    John Joyce, Jul 10, 2007
    #12
  13. Re: god 0.1.0 released

    Todd Burch wrote:
    > Why would you pick the name "god"? Surely there are more appropriate
    > names for a piece of software.
    >

    Why? At least now the name refers to *something*.

    --
    Florian Frank
    Florian Frank, Jul 10, 2007
    #13
  14. Hey time.. Congrats...=20
    I just loved the name... may GOD help us all! :)

    Regards,=20
    Ujjwal=20
    =20
    =20

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Tom Werner [mailto:p]=20
    Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:54 PM
    To: ruby-talk ML
    Subject: [ANN] god 0.1.0 released

    I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!

    http://god.rubyforge.org/


    WHAT IS GOD?

    God is an easy to configure, easy to extend monitoring framework written

    in Ruby.

    Keeping your server processes and tasks running should be a simple part=20
    of your deployment process. God aims to be the simplest, most powerful=20
    monitoring application available.


    DISCLAIMER

    God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I

    do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally

    use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.


    INSTALL

    sudo gem install god

    * note: currently tested only on Redhat Linux and Darwin (won't work on=20
    Windows)


    FEATURES

    * Config file is written in Ruby
    * Easily write your own custom conditions in Ruby
    * Supports both poll and event based conditions
    * Different poll conditions can have different intervals


    EXAMPLE

    The easiest way to understand how god will make your life better is by=20
    looking at a sample config file. The following configuration file is=20
    what I use at gravatar.com to keep the mongrels running:

    # file: gravatar.god
    # run with: god start -c /path/to/gravatar.god
    #
    # This is the actual config file used to keep the mongrels of
    # gravatar.com running.

    RAILS_ROOT =3D "/var/www/gravatar2/current"

    God.meddle do |god|
    %w{8200 8201 8202}.each do |port|
    god.watch do |w|
    w.name =3D "gravatar2-mongrel-#{port}"
    w.interval =3D 30 # seconds
    w.start =3D "mongrel_rails cluster::start --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.stop =3D "mongrel_rails cluster::stop --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.grace =3D 10 # seconds
    =20
    pid_file =3D File.join(RAILS_ROOT, "log/mongrel.#{port}.pid")
    =20
    w.behavior:)clean_pid_file) do |b|
    b.pid_file =3D pid_file
    end

    w.start_if do |start|
    start.condition:)process_not_running) do |c|
    c.interval =3D 5 # seconds
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    end
    end
    =20
    w.restart_if do |restart|
    restart.condition:)memory_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    c.above =3D (150 * 1024) # 150mb
    c.times =3D [3, 5] # 3 out of 5 intervals
    end
    =20
    restart.condition:)cpu_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    c.above =3D 50 # percent
    c.times =3D 5
    end
    end
    end
    end
    end


    DOCS

    Detailed documentation is available at http://god.rubyforge.org/


    CHANGES

    =3D=3D 0.1.0 / 2007-07-07

    * 1 major enhancement
    * Birthday!


    AUTHOR

    Tom Preston-Werner



    *************************************************************************=
    **************************************************=0AThis e-mail communic=
    ation and any attachments may be privileged and confidential to Hexaware =
    and are intended only for the =0Ause of the recipients named above. If yo=
    u are not the intended recipient, please do not review, disclose, dissemi=
    nate, =0Adistribute or copy this e-mail and attachments. If you have rece=
    ived this email in error, please delete the same alongwith =0Aall attachm=
    ents thereto and notify us immediately at .=0A****=
    *************************************************************************=
    **********************************************=0A
    Ujjwal Trivedi, Jul 10, 2007
    #14
  15. Typo...x Hey Tom!=20

    Regards,=20
    Ujjwal=20
    =20
    =20

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ujjwal Trivedi [mailto:]=20
    Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 1:50 PM
    To: ruby-talk ML
    Subject: Re: [ANN] god 0.1.0 released

    Hey ****.. Congrats...=20
    I just loved the name... may GOD help us all! :)

    Regards,=20
    Ujjwal=20
    =20
    =20

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Tom Werner [mailto:p]=20
    Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:54 PM
    To: ruby-talk ML
    Subject: [ANN] god 0.1.0 released

    I'm proud to announce the initial public release of god!

    http://god.rubyforge.org/


    WHAT IS GOD?

    God is an easy to configure, easy to extend monitoring framework written

    in Ruby.

    Keeping your server processes and tasks running should be a simple part=20
    of your deployment process. God aims to be the simplest, most powerful=20
    monitoring application available.


    DISCLAIMER

    God is still very young, I'd love to get feedback and bug reports, but I

    do not yet recommend you use it for mission critical tasks. I personally

    use it in production but then I'm a daring fellow.


    INSTALL

    sudo gem install god

    * note: currently tested only on Redhat Linux and Darwin (won't work on=20
    Windows)


    FEATURES

    * Config file is written in Ruby
    * Easily write your own custom conditions in Ruby
    * Supports both poll and event based conditions
    * Different poll conditions can have different intervals


    EXAMPLE

    The easiest way to understand how god will make your life better is by=20
    looking at a sample config file. The following configuration file is=20
    what I use at gravatar.com to keep the mongrels running:

    # file: gravatar.god
    # run with: god start -c /path/to/gravatar.god
    #
    # This is the actual config file used to keep the mongrels of
    # gravatar.com running.

    RAILS_ROOT =3D "/var/www/gravatar2/current"

    God.meddle do |god|
    %w{8200 8201 8202}.each do |port|
    god.watch do |w|
    w.name =3D "gravatar2-mongrel-#{port}"
    w.interval =3D 30 # seconds
    w.start =3D "mongrel_rails cluster::start --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.stop =3D "mongrel_rails cluster::stop --only #{port} \
    -C #{RAILS_ROOT}/config/mongrel_cluster.yml"
    w.grace =3D 10 # seconds
    =20
    pid_file =3D File.join(RAILS_ROOT, "log/mongrel.#{port}.pid")
    =20
    w.behavior:)clean_pid_file) do |b|
    b.pid_file =3D pid_file
    end

    w.start_if do |start|
    start.condition:)process_not_running) do |c|
    c.interval =3D 5 # seconds
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    end
    end
    =20
    w.restart_if do |restart|
    restart.condition:)memory_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    c.above =3D (150 * 1024) # 150mb
    c.times =3D [3, 5] # 3 out of 5 intervals
    end
    =20
    restart.condition:)cpu_usage) do |c|
    c.pid_file =3D pid_file
    c.above =3D 50 # percent
    c.times =3D 5
    end
    end
    end
    end
    end


    DOCS

    Detailed documentation is available at http://god.rubyforge.org/


    CHANGES

    =3D=3D 0.1.0 / 2007-07-07

    * 1 major enhancement
    * Birthday!


    AUTHOR

    Tom Preston-Werner



    ************************************************************************
    ***************************************************
    This e-mail communication and any attachments may be privileged and
    confidential to Hexaware and are intended only for the=20
    use of the recipients named above. If you are not the intended
    recipient, please do not review, disclose, disseminate,=20
    distribute or copy this e-mail and attachments. If you have received
    this email in error, please delete the same alongwith=20
    all attachments thereto and notify us immediately at
    .
    ************************************************************************
    ***************************************************




    *************************************************************************=
    **************************************************=0AThis e-mail communic=
    ation and any attachments may be privileged and confidential to Hexaware =
    and are intended only for the =0Ause of the recipients named above. If yo=
    u are not the intended recipient, please do not review, disclose, dissemi=
    nate, =0Adistribute or copy this e-mail and attachments. If you have rece=
    ived this email in error, please delete the same alongwith =0Aall attachm=
    ents thereto and notify us immediately at .=0A****=
    *************************************************************************=
    **********************************************=0A
    Ujjwal Trivedi, Jul 10, 2007
    #15
  16. Tom Werner

    Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    > I'm basically agnostic, but I still find "god" a poor name. It just
    > has too much semantic weight. An ancient name for god may carry
    > better, like "Deus".


    I was imagining there would be objections when I saw the announcement.
    Then I thought, look at the number of God Games out there (Populus, and
    Black & White being prime examples of the genre): playing at God is
    hardly uncharted in technology circles.

    I think it's a great name for the application, given it's domain. It
    also gives almost endless scope for grin / cringe jokes. All those jokes
    will, with a little care, also make for a fun and memerable interface:
    there's enormous scope for use of metaphores that I'd imagine most
    societies would probably appreciate (anywhere with some exposure to
    monotheistic religion).

    Hey - with enough 2 cents, we can buy a burger.

    Cheers,
    Benj - also mostly agnostic (if that's relevent).
    , Jul 10, 2007
    #16
  17. Re: god 0.1.0 released

    On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:32:34 +0900, benjohn wrote:


    > I think it's a great name for the application, given it's domain. It
    > also gives almost endless scope for grin / cringe jokes. All those jokes
    > will, with a little care, also make for a fun and memerable interface:
    > there's enormous scope for use of metaphores that I'd imagine most
    > societies would probably appreciate (anywhere with some exposure to
    > monotheistic religion).


    but it is hard to find god via google.
    Well, not all of them, at least.



    --
    goto 10: http://www.goto10.it
    blog it: http://riffraff.blogsome.com
    blog en: http://www.riffraff.info
    gabriele renzi, Jul 10, 2007
    #17
  18. Tom Werner

    Todd Burch Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    Florian Frank wrote:

    > Why? At least now the name refers to *something*.


    I've never seen a "name" that didn't refer to something. Perhaps you
    meant "implies" something. And yes, it implies a sense of arrogance on
    Tom's part.

    And your comment, Benj, about the Gaming industry already doing it - so
    it must be "ok"... and your initial thoughts on objections for the use
    of the name, and then signing as "mostly agnostic"... You sir - have
    given me the best laugh of the day! Your first thoughts must have come
    from your non-"mostly agnostic" side, and by the definition of agnostic,
    you are uncertain anyway. So, your post is a trip, (a riot, it's
    hilarious), anyway you look at it! And yes, in this case, it's
    perfectly relevant.

    Perhaps its my age (44), which to some might suggest a certain level of
    maturity and/or discretion, but I would have spent a bit more mental
    time to come up with a name, like I said before, that was more
    appropriate, or perhaps, OK, I'll quit beating around the bush on my
    real feelings - less inappropriate.

    But, being a candidate for an old fuddy-duddy, I could be looking at
    this all wrong too. With God (the real one) being taken out of schools,
    and His commandments being taken out of our courthouses, and in all the
    other ways society has found to remove or otherwise pidgeon-hole God out
    of our lives, perhaps this reference, however infinitesimally minute in
    the scheme of things, will raise someone's curiosity enough to do some
    exploration for themselves on the matter.

    One last comment. Yes, this name choice, as we've already seen, will be
    the brunt of jokes and snickering, but in the end, you (Tom) have set a
    pretty big expectation for the usefulness and quality of your wares.

    Good luck with your project. (P.S. yeah, I know, "luck" is a pagan
    thing!)

    Todd

    Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist on my comments - take
    a deep breath, relax, and realize that I have not personally attacked
    anyone. Might I have made fun of you? Well, that depends!

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    Todd Burch, Jul 10, 2007
    #18
  19. Tom Werner

    Todd Benson Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    On 7/10/07, <> wrote:
    > > I'm basically agnostic, but I still find "god" a poor name. It just
    > > has too much semantic weight. An ancient name for god may carry
    > > better, like "Deus".

    >
    > I was imagining there would be objections when I saw the announcement.
    > Then I thought, look at the number of God Games out there (Populus, and
    > Black & White being prime examples of the genre): playing at God is
    > hardly uncharted in technology circles.
    >
    > I think it's a great name for the application, given it's domain. It
    > also gives almost endless scope for grin / cringe jokes. All those jokes
    > will, with a little care, also make for a fun and memerable interface:
    > there's enormous scope for use of metaphores that I'd imagine most
    > societies would probably appreciate (anywhere with some exposure to
    > monotheistic religion).


    I agree with Trans. It has too much syntactic weight, not to mention
    it is also somewhat pretentious. It sort of suggests that it is and
    will be the end all/be all of monitoring applications. In fact, in
    almost goes one step beyond that, suggesting almost that it is the end
    all/be all of any application. Pretty weighty indeed. It really has
    nothing to do with theological beliefs. After all, "God" or "the
    Lord" in the old testament -- if I remember correctly and sticking to
    Judaism as an example -- is translated as "I am"; something _not_
    unique to monotheism. Better to stick with synonyms of god instead.
    You can have just as much fun with the mythological captains of the
    past.

    Todd Burch, I share your discretion, but that's about it. I really
    think the concept of god is ultimately humanistic in nature and has
    very little to do with religion.

    But I don't foresee the name changing. So, if I happen to design
    something along similar lines that I think is better, I guess I'll
    just call it God2, or, hmm ... maybe Lucifer.

    Todd
    Todd Benson, Jul 10, 2007
    #19
  20. Tom Werner

    Guest

    Re: god 0.1.0 released

    Todd Burch wrote:
    *snip*
    > But, being a candidate for an old fuddy-duddy, I could be looking at
    > this all wrong too. With God (the real one) being taken out of schools,
    > and His commandments being taken out of our courthouses, and in all the
    > other ways society has found to remove or otherwise pidgeon-hole God out
    > of our lives, perhaps this reference, however infinitesimally minute in
    > the scheme of things, will raise someone's curiosity enough to do some
    > exploration for themselves on the matter.

    *snip*

    Who's to know. :) But I guess it's a good thing that Gem name
    convention is to be lower case.

    Cheers,
    Benj
    , Jul 10, 2007
    #20
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