Announcing PythonTurtle

C

cool-RR

Hello,

I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
PythonTurtle.
Here is its website:
http://pythonturtle.com

Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
You can read more about it and download it on the website.

Ram.
 
A

André

Hello,

I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
PythonTurtle.
Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com

Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
You can read more about it and download it on the website.

Ram.

Why not make the source available? At the very least, people that do
not run windows could try it too.

André
 
C

cool-RR

Why not make the source available?  At the very least, people that do
not run windows could try it too.

André

Sorry that the link is obscure like that. I'll change it so it's
easier to see.
 
C

Colin J. Williams

cool-RR said:
Hello,

I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
PythonTurtle.
Here is its website:
http://pythonturtle.com

Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
You can read more about it and download it on the website.

Ram.

It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.

Colin W.
 
C

cool-RR

It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.

Colin W.

I agree there's a lot that can be improved - I wanted to put it out
there so I could get feedback and fix the important things first. So
I'd appreciate you telling me what you think needs improvement.

Ram.
 
R

r

Hello,
I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
project,
PythonTurtle.
[snip]

I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface. I especially
like that you are using a "real" turtle.

I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
kept saying to myself...

"Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

:)
 
C

cool-RR

Hello,
I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
project,
PythonTurtle.
[snip]

I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface.  I especially
like that you are using a "real" turtle.

I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
kept saying to myself...

    "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

:)

Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)
 
R

r

Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)

I *may* get roasted for this comment, but i think a turtle module
along the lines of what you have here would better serve the stdlib.
The current implementation is great, but the whole purpose of turtle
is to help children or non-programmers get a feel of the language in a
very, very, simple and fun way. Your app is presented in much the same
way as any over-the-counter windows app any non-programmer has seen
before making them *feel* a little more comfortable.

[warning wild speculations ahead!!]
I just guessing here, but i'll bet many of these *noobs* have found
the current turtle just a wee-bit more advanced than they can handle,
and *some* have been scared off. I would also venture to say a key-map
of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an
"Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command
inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also
help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic
programming -- sorry Microsoft :p
 
A

Asun Friere

[snip]
I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
kept saying to myself...

    "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

:)

In Python2.6, try this:
 
G

Gregor Lingl

cool-RR said:
Hello,

I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
PythonTurtle.
Here is its website:
http://pythonturtle.com

Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
You can read more about it and download it on the website.

Ram.

Hi Ram,

that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).

Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands
for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left
and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn
as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for
young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like
visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()

But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a
point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier
if they had not to learn a new command set.

Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like
an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can
be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
a sequence of cammands interactively.

It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
another in some more mature state of development.

Best regards,
Gregor
 
C

cool-RR

Hi Ram,

that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).

I agree - an undo feature for example would be nice and it's something
I would like to do in a future version. Other than that though, I
don't think having many turtle-functions is so important. I think the
important thing is for the student to build complex things from simple
building blocks.
Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands
for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left
and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn
as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for
young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like
visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()
But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a
point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier
if they had not to learn a new command set.
Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like
an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can
be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
a sequence of cammands interactively.

A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
seemed ideal to me.
I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
even use.
It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether
someone will step up and do it.
Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
another in some more mature state of development.

Best regards,
Gregor

Thank you for your feedback Gregor.

Ram Rachum.
 
G

Gregor Lingl

cool-RR said:
....
A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
seemed ideal to me.
I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
even use.

That's the advantage of not developing for the standard library. In fact
those elementary commands you use were present already in the old turtle
module. When I decided to extend the old turtle module a primary
requirement was that it remains 100% compatible to the old one. New
versions of a module in the standard library must not break code of
previous users of that module. In short: I did not name these functions
but I had to use the names that already were there.

Nevertheless I'd prefer left and right over turn even today, especially
for kids as I argued before.

Regards,
Gregor
 

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