Announcing PythonTurtle

Discussion in 'Python' started by cool-RR, Aug 3, 2009.

  1. cool-RR

    cool-RR Guest

    Hello,

    I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    PythonTurtle.
    Here is its website:
    http://pythonturtle.com

    Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    You can read more about it and download it on the website.

    Ram.
    cool-RR, Aug 3, 2009
    #1
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  2. cool-RR

    André Guest

    On Aug 3, 10:18 am, cool-RR <> wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    > PythonTurtle.
    > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
    >
    > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    > You can read more about it and download it on the website.
    >
    > Ram.


    Why not make the source available? At the very least, people that do
    not run windows could try it too.

    André
    André, Aug 3, 2009
    #2
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  3. André schrieb:

    >> I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    >> PythonTurtle.
    >> Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com
    >>
    >> Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    >> You can read more about it and download it on the website.
    >>
    >> Ram.

    >
    > Why not make the source available? At the very least, people that do
    > not run windows could try it too.


    Isn't this the source: http://github.com/cool-RR/PythonTurtle/tree/master ?

    Linked at the bottom of the page.

    Best,
    Hilmar
    Hilmar Bunjes, Aug 3, 2009
    #3
  4. cool-RR

    cool-RR Guest

    On Aug 3, 5:53 pm, André <> wrote:
    > On Aug 3, 10:18 am, cool-RR <> wrote:
    >
    > > Hello,

    >
    > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    > > PythonTurtle.
    > > Here is its website:http://pythonturtle.com

    >
    > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    > > You can read more about it and download it on the website.

    >
    > > Ram.

    >
    > Why not make the source available?  At the very least, people that do
    > not run windows could try it too.
    >
    > André


    Sorry that the link is obscure like that. I'll change it so it's
    easier to see.
    cool-RR, Aug 3, 2009
    #4
  5. cool-RR wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    > PythonTurtle.
    > Here is its website:
    > http://pythonturtle.com
    >
    > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    > You can read more about it and download it on the website.
    >
    > Ram.


    It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.

    Colin W.
    Colin J. Williams, Aug 3, 2009
    #5
  6. cool-RR

    cool-RR Guest

    On Aug 3, 7:04 pm, "Colin J. Williams" <> wrote:
    > cool-RR wrote:
    > > Hello,

    >
    > > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    > > PythonTurtle.
    > > Here is its website:
    > >http://pythonturtle.com

    >
    > > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    > > You can read more about it and download it on the website.

    >
    > > Ram.

    >
    > It looks neat but it's not yet ready for prime time.
    >
    > Colin W.


    I agree there's a lot that can be improved - I wanted to put it out
    there so I could get feedback and fix the important things first. So
    I'd appreciate you telling me what you think needs improvement.

    Ram.
    cool-RR, Aug 3, 2009
    #6
  7. cool-RR

    r Guest

    Hello,
    I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
    project,
    PythonTurtle.
    [snip]

    I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
    really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
    inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
    prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface. I especially
    like that you are using a "real" turtle.

    I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
    kept saying to myself...

    "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

    :)
    r, Aug 3, 2009
    #7
  8. cool-RR

    cool-RR Guest

    On Aug 3, 11:35 pm, r <> wrote:
    > Hello,
    > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side
    > project,
    > PythonTurtle.
    > [snip]
    >
    > I think it looks great --haven't download the source yet-- but i
    > really like the screenshot. This will be more "inviting" to the new,
    > inexperianced users. I like the idea of packaging up the command
    > prompt and the canvas into one very friendly interface.  I especially
    > like that you are using a "real" turtle.
    >
    > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
    > kept saying to myself...
    >
    >     "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)
    >
    > :)


    Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
    things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
    PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)
    cool-RR, Aug 3, 2009
    #8
  9. cool-RR

    r Guest

    On Aug 3, 5:03 pm, cool-RR <> wrote:
    [snip]
    > Thanks for the compliments; The things you mentioned you liked are all
    > things that I was specifically thinking about when I decided to make
    > PythonTurtle. Well, maybe minus the screenshot :)


    I *may* get roasted for this comment, but i think a turtle module
    along the lines of what you have here would better serve the stdlib.
    The current implementation is great, but the whole purpose of turtle
    is to help children or non-programmers get a feel of the language in a
    very, very, simple and fun way. Your app is presented in much the same
    way as any over-the-counter windows app any non-programmer has seen
    before making them *feel* a little more comfortable.

    [warning wild speculations ahead!!]
    I just guessing here, but i'll bet many of these *noobs* have found
    the current turtle just a wee-bit more advanced than they can handle,
    and *some* have been scared off. I would also venture to say a key-map
    of sorts that is available thru the help menu where one could push an
    "Up" button, or a "rotate" button, and have the proper command
    inserted in the prompt, and then have the command execute, may also
    help make the connections here, a sort of *real* Visual Basic
    programming -- sorry Microsoft :p
    r, Aug 3, 2009
    #9
  10. cool-RR

    Mensanator Guest

    Mensanator, Aug 4, 2009
    #10
  11. cool-RR

    Asun Friere Guest

    On Aug 4, 6:35 am, r <> wrote:

    [snip]

    >
    > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
    > kept saying to myself...
    >
    >     "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)
    >
    > :)


    In Python2.6, try this:
    >>> turtle.shape('turtle')
    Asun Friere, Aug 4, 2009
    #11
  12. cool-RR

    r Guest

    On Aug 3, 8:53 pm, Asun Friere <> wrote:
    > On Aug 4, 6:35 am, r <> wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >
    >
    > > I can remember the first time i used turtle (in python stdlib) and i
    > > kept saying to myself...

    >
    > >     "Were the heck is this damn turtle?!?!" (>_<)

    >
    > > :)

    >
    > In Python2.6, try this:
    >
    >
    >
    > >>> turtle.shape('turtle')


    Thanks Asun, now i don't have anything to complain about! :-#
    r, Aug 4, 2009
    #12
  13. cool-RR

    Gregor Lingl Guest

    cool-RR schrieb:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I wanted to announce that I have just released my little side project,
    > PythonTurtle.
    > Here is its website:
    > http://pythonturtle.com
    >
    > Its goal is to be the lowest-threshold way to learn (or teach) Python.
    > You can read more about it and download it on the website.
    >
    > Ram.


    Hi Ram,

    that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
    although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
    Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
    turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).

    Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands
    for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left
    and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn
    as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for
    young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like
    visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()

    But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a
    point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
    could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier
    if they had not to learn a new command set.

    Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like
    an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can
    be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
    a sequence of cammands interactively.

    It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
    using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
    Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
    difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
    its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
    othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
    interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

    Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
    turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
    out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
    I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
    another in some more mature state of development.

    Best regards,
    Gregor
    Gregor Lingl, Aug 4, 2009
    #13
  14. cool-RR

    cool-RR Guest


    > Hi Ram,
    >
    > that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
    > although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
    > Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
    > turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).
    >


    I agree - an undo feature for example would be nice and it's something
    I would like to do in a future version. Other than that though, I
    don't think having many turtle-functions is so important. I think the
    important thing is for the student to build complex things from simple
    building blocks.

    > Moreover I have to complain that you decided to use different commands
    > for the turtle's actions - go instead of forward, turn instead of left
    > and right etc. First I think left and right are more intuitive than turn
    > as they do not need negative angles as arguments, which might matter for
    > young children. Also I cannot see the advantage of cammands like
    > visible() or invisible() over showturtle() and hideturtle()
    > But second even kids - when learning how to program - will arrive at a
    > point where it's no more problem to use an editor like IDLE so they
    > could easily switch to Python's turtle module. That would be even easier
    > if they had not to learn a new command set.
    > Moreover a learning environment like PythonTurtle needs something like
    > an editor - at least a simple one - in order to create programs that can
    > be run repeatedly. Coding, that's creating programs - not only issuing
    > a sequence of cammands interactively.
    >


    A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
    Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
    best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
    named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
    convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
    seemed ideal to me.
    I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
    consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
    PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
    even use.

    > It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
    > using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
    > Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
    > difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
    > its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
    > othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
    > interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.


    I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether
    someone will step up and do it.

    > Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
    > turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
    > out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
    > I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
    > another in some more mature state of development.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Gregor


    Thank you for your feedback Gregor.

    Ram Rachum.
    cool-RR, Aug 4, 2009
    #14
  15. cool-RR

    Gregor Lingl Guest

    cool-RR schrieb:
    >> Hi Ram,
    >>
    >> that's indeed a nice starting point for kids to doing turtle graphics,
    >> although currently it seems to implement only a very small subset of
    >> Python's turtle module's capabilities, even less than those of the old
    >> turtle module (that shipped with Python upto 2.5).

    ....
    > A text editor would be a good feature for future versions.
    > Regarding the naming of functions: I named them in the way that seemed
    > best to me. You seem not to agree, you like the way your functions are
    > named better, and there's little point in arguing over which
    > convention is truly better. The convention I chose is the one that
    > seemed ideal to me.
    > I did consider naming the functions the same way you did for
    > consistency, but I decided not to compromise the quality of
    > PythonTurtle just to be compatible with a module that my users may not
    > even use.


    That's the advantage of not developing for the standard library. In fact
    those elementary commands you use were present already in the old turtle
    module. When I decided to extend the old turtle module a primary
    requirement was that it remains 100% compatible to the old one. New
    versions of a module in the standard library must not break code of
    previous users of that module. In short: I did not name these functions
    but I had to use the names that already were there.

    Nevertheless I'd prefer left and right over turn even today, especially
    for kids as I argued before.

    Regards,
    Gregor

    >
    >> It would be certainly a good thing if one had a similar environment
    >> using Tkinter, preferably also as part of the standard distribution of
    >> Python accompanying the turtle module. I think it should not be that
    >> difficult to create a GUI of this sort combining IDLE's shell window,
    >> its editor and turtle.py. Alas, at the moment I'm too busy with some
    >> othr work to start a project like this. Perhaps someone else might be
    >> interested? I'd enjoy to join a team doing it.

    >
    > I agree that it shouldn't be difficult; The question is whether
    > someone will step up and do it.
    >
    >> Finally I'd like to stress, that the aims of PythonTurtle and Python's
    >> turtle module are quite different - as one could grasp easily by trying
    >> out the collection of examples at python-turtle-demo.googlecode.com that
    >> I posted in another posting. Anyway they could very well complement one
    >> another in some more mature state of development.
    >>
    >> Best regards,
    >> Gregor

    >
    > Thank you for your feedback Gregor.
    >
    > Ram Rachum.
    Gregor Lingl, Aug 4, 2009
    #15
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