Another discovery - css does preserve bandwith?

[Henry]

For sometime I was under impression that css is God's send to web
designers. I’ve tried to learn them, use for layout, but yesterday I was
sniffing around some pages and I've realized that css is loaded with
every page!

The size of css can be from 2 up to 15 or even more kbytes.

There could be more than just one css.

Example: http://www.westciv.com/index.html

So every time not only page has to be loaded, but css is loaded to.

Let's say, we have 5kb little page but in reality we are loading 5kb
plus 15kb.

So it would not make much difference to have the css on the same page.

Hmmm... in such light the bandwidth is not the winner.

When I add bugs in most popular browsers, enormous problems with tables
and tied hands with layouts and great graphics, where is the benefit?

Yes, I'm aware that you can change fonts on 100 pages instantly.

But... who does it!?

We should not change the fonts! Nor their sizes! User should do it.

Also, if some big company wants to change their colors, they will rather
change the whole layout, all graphics, all stationery and whole idea
changing in 2 minutes css is useless.

Text control is great in css and that's about it!

Anything else, to many hacks and problems and scratching heads.

It looks to me like some guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.

So, there are other benefits in using css and we should give up tables?

IMHO css could be used mainly for the text control.

 

[brucie]

In alt.html Henry said:

I've realized that css is loaded with every page!

change your browser settings

Example: http://www.westciv.com/index.html

a 304 is sent which is appropriate

+++GET 234+++
GET /screen.css HTTP/1.1

+++RESP 234+++
HTTP/1.1 304 Not Modified

IMHO css could be used mainly for the text control.

but you're an idiot

 

[rf]

The size of css can be from 2 up to 15 or even more kbytes.

A CSS file that is 15K big is very badly designed and probably suffers from
server bloat. The author should learn how to use CSS *properly* and redesign
the site with a CSS file that would probably be under 1K.

Example: http://www.westciv.com/index.html

See above.

This CSS has what looks like a seperate rule for every single element on the
page, indeed every single element in every page on the entire site. It's
rubbish, to *not* use this as an example of how to use CSS.

Text control is great in css and that's about it!

Nope. It's about presentation, not control.

See above, the bit about learning how to use CSS properly.

Anything else, to many hacks and problems and scratching heads.

It looks to me like some guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.

See above, the bit about learning how to use CSS properly.

So, there are other benefits in using css and we should give up tables?

See above, the bit about learning how to use CSS properly.

IMHO css could be used mainly for the text control.

See above, the bit about learning how to use CSS properly.

 

[Big Bill]

For sometime I was under impression that css is God's send to web
designers. I’ve tried to learn them, use for layout, but yesterday I was
sniffing around some pages and I've realized that css is loaded with
every page!

It is? Even if it's the same file?

BB


www.kruse.co.uk
The home of SEO that's shiny!

 

[rf]

I've realized that css is loaded with
every page!

Yes. However it is only downloaded once. Thereafter it is retrieved from the
browsers cache.

 

[Big Bill]

Yes. However it is only downloaded once. Thereafter it is retrieved from the
browsers cache.

Which is what I thought.

BB
www.kruse.co.uk
The home of SEO that's shiny!

 

[Henry]

Henry wrote:




Yes. However it is only downloaded once. Thereafter it is retrieved from the
browsers cache.

Ohhh... like pictures...


Showing a link to http://www.westciv.com/index.html I was under
impression that these guys are more knowledgeable about css than I'm.




I'm trying to learn and web world is confusing.

Css seems to be mainly text orientated layout. When comes to sliced
images, image maps it seems to be useless.

Majority web templates are based on tables and graphics.

That's from where I'm coming.

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but I have decided to use tables until css
will work better than tables.

If tables are working well, don't fix something which works.

I'm a muzo and music is one of the biggest direction on the web.

Usually loaded with Flash, tables and a lot of graphics and music.

I don't think that I can achieve that with css layouts.

Even if I will see beautiful, well designed music page in css, the most
of them done in easier way in tables, so until that trend will prevail,
I will work with tables.



brucie...

you wrote...

but you're an idiot

you really need some sex mate!

 

[rf]

Ohhh... like pictures...

Like every other file that may be in a web page.

Showing a link to http://www.westciv.com/index.html I was under
impression that these guys are more knowledgeable about css than I'm.

See my other post in this thread. These guys have no knowlege of CSS at all,
IMNSHO.

I'm trying to learn and web world is confusing.

It is, at first.

Css seems to be mainly text orientated layout.

No. CSS defines the presentational issues for elements on the page. These
elements can be anything and the text on a page is only part of it. Consider

When comes to sliced
images, image maps it seems to be useless.

Sliced images are silly. Slicing up an image makes it far slower to
download. And why would you say image maps are useless. They are fine for
what they are designed, which is not to slice images.

Majority web templates are based on tables and graphics.

The majority of web templates are rubbish. The fact that most of them use
tables for layout is an indication of how much the rubbish smells.

That's from where I'm coming.
Fine.

Maybe my reasoning is flawed but I have decided to use tables until css
will work better than tables.

Your loss. CSS already works far better than tables (for layout that is)
ever did.

I'm a muzo and music is one of the biggest direction on the web.

Oh come on! You surely must be talking from a biased viewpoint. Music is now
*not* the biggest direction on the web. Not since Napster and pirating were
outlawed.

Usually loaded with Flash, tables and a lot of graphics and music.

And other useless rubbish.

I don't think that I can achieve that with css layouts.

How do you really think that css would help you with flash and music. You
are looking at the wrong end of the technology here.

And any case why not. What is stopping you using css to position a flash
movie? Nothing at all. Your problem is probably just that you have not
learned how to do it properly.

Even if I will see beautiful, well designed music page in css, the most
of them done in easier way in tables,
Bullshit.

so until that trend will prevail,
I will work with tables.

brucie...

you wrote...

Given the above you are.

 

[Big Bill]

Like every other file that may be in a web page.


See my other post in this thread. These guys have no knowlege of CSS at all,
IMNSHO.


It is, at first.

At First?!!

BB


www.kruse.co.uk
The home of SEO that's shiny!

 

[Henry]

At First?!!

BB

In other words, you have failed miserably to convince me (And I do
believe many others) that I should give up tables and use clumsy css for
layout with it's hundreds of hacks for different browsers.

"Table are for a tabular data only."

What a crock of shit!



If M$ will change their way or IE will be gone, than I'll *reconsider*
my attitude towards css.

You guys do create these ugly css based, with huge and ugly fonts but
informative pages and I will design something beautiful in Photoshop and
put it in the tables.

Tomorrow we will have 10MB or bigger and 50k page will be silly and
obsolete design for old sexless prics.

Than I'll laugh all way to the bank like many great designers do.

Just check www.boxedart.com!

And learn something nice for a change... Even toilet paper has to be
beautiful.




BTW. This is alt.html, not alt.css or alt.java

Don't forget alt for the blind girl!

And support US butchery in Iraq instead.

Have a nice day or... night.

 

[Kris]

At First?!!

In other words, you have failed miserably to convince me (And I do
believe many others) that I should give up tables and use clumsy css for
layout with it's hundreds of hacks for different browsers.[/QUOTE]

I use CSS instead of tables for layout, without clumsyness and hundreds
of hacks, but you're not going to get it from me. You will either have
to find someone else who pities you and tells you the way it is or
continue to live in blissful ignorance of how much better you could have
become at what you do.

"Table are for a tabular data only."

What a crock of shit!
If M$ will change their way or IE will be gone, than I'll *reconsider*
my attitude towards css.

Have you complained yo MicroSoft yet? So why didn't you?

You guys do create these ugly css based, with huge and ugly fonts but
informative pages and I will design something beautiful in Photoshop and
put it in the tables.

Let's see some more of that great work of yours.

Tomorrow we will have 10MB or bigger and 50k page will be silly and
obsolete design for old sexless prics.

Wishing does not make it so.

Than I'll laugh all way to the bank like many great designers do.

Just like you will laugh at yourself in a few years looking back on your
silly way of thinking. I have been there myself.

Just check www.boxedart.com!

I'd do that in CSS instead of tables for half the price you charge. And
I would have at least thought of alt-texts for images. I think I will
report that as a bug at the little bugreport thingie in the bottom-left.

And learn something nice for a change... Even toilet paper has to be
beautiful.

Nice is offtopic in this group.

 

[Karl Core]

In other words, you have failed miserably to convince me (And I do believe
many others) that I should give up tables and use clumsy css for layout
with it's hundreds of hacks for different browsers.

Let's see some samples of your work.

-Karl

 

[Jan Faerber]

In alt.html Henry said:


change your browser settings


a 304 is sent which is appropriate

+++GET 234+++
GET /screen.css HTTP/1.1

+++RESP 234+++
HTTP/1.1 304 Not Modified


but you're an idiot

Have I missed something?

 

[Big Bill]

In other words, you have failed miserably to convince me (And I do
believe many others) that I should give up tables and use clumsy css for
layout with it's hundreds of hacks for different browsers.

"Table are for a tabular data only."

What a crock of shit!



If M$ will change their way or IE will be gone, than I'll *reconsider*
my attitude towards css.

You guys do create these ugly css based, with huge and ugly fonts but
informative pages and I will design something beautiful in Photoshop and
put it in the tables.

Tomorrow we will have 10MB or bigger and 50k page will be silly and
obsolete design for old sexless prics.

Hey!

BB


www.kruse.co.uk
The home of SEO that's shiny!

 

[mutant]

For sometime I was under impression that css is God's send to web
designers. Iÿve tried to learn them, use for layout, but yesterday I was
sniffing around some pages and I've realized that css is loaded with
every page!

Hey. Start running around yelling the world is round. That the sun ya know
does what it does. You are ahead of your time. Heretics of the zieghiest
will be burned!


- Peace -
Mutant
--

 

[brucie]

In alt.html Jan Faerber said:

Have I missed something?

a sasquatch wondered through the group yesterday leading the loch ness
monster on a leash. apart from that no, you didn't miss anything.

 

[rf]

In other words, you have failed miserably to convince me (And I do
believe many others) that I should give up tables and use clumsy css for
layout with it's hundreds of hacks for different browsers.

Just check www.boxedart.com!

I can see now that we don't have to convince you of anything. With stuff
like this you will never become a serious threat to any of the web
developers here.

And learn something nice for a change... Even toilet paper has to be
beautiful.

Not when it's used

 

[Neal]

Henry wrote:
I can see now that we don't have to convince you of anything. With stuff
like this you will never become a serious threat to any of the web
developers here.

Indeed. This could be done in CSS. Easily. And to better effect.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Indeed. This could be done in CSS. Easily. And to better effect.

Can you show an example where a similar page is being done in CSS? Not
to challenge you, but I would like to see what they are doing.

 

[rf]

Travis Newbury

says...

[Henry's site]

Can you show an example where a similar page is being done in CSS? Not
to challenge you, but I would like to see what they are doing.

http://www.opro.org/new redesign/currsch.php

Much nicer. Less cluttered. Less glary. Better colours. Text resizable in
IE. Fluid design. More accessible. No 100+ images to download.

Overall a much more professional site.

Oh, and it uses modern technology like CSS and PHP.