Anti-benchmarking clauses

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by Philippe, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. Philippe

    Philippe Guest

    It was interesting to read some synthesis benchmarking results on
    comp.lang.vhdl last week. I feel it's high time that EDA vendors drop
    the anti-benchmarking clauses from their license agreements:

    http://www.sigasi.com/content/your-milage-may-vary-lot

    To summarize my points:

    1. There is no clear definition of what a "benchmark result" is, you
    don't know when you are breaching the contract.
    2. Public benchmarking hinders competition and innovation.
    3. Customers deserve to be treated with more respect.

    I'd love to hear your thoughts, either on this newsgroup, or on my
    webpage.


    kind regards

    --
    Philippe
    www.sigasi.com
     
    Philippe, Mar 8, 2011
    #1
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  2. Philippe

    Brian Davis Guest

    Philippe posted:
    >
    > 1. There is no clear definition of what a "benchmark result" is,
    > you don't know when you are breaching the contract.
    >

    I agree that those clauses are a bit much.

    FYI, about a decade ago, there was some vendor
    clarification regarding this issue on comp.arch.fpga
    in the context of posting _single_ vendor Brand S
    result variations vs. tool settings/coding style:

    In 2001, I had posted [1] a summary of LUT counts vs.
    tool settings on a thread about big counters:
    >
    >And tweaking counter size/target frequency, gives:
    >
    > Synplify Synplify
    > CNT_MSB Frequency LUT count
    > __________________________________________
    > 55 77 57
    > 55 78 110
    >
    > 31 95 33
    > 31 96 46
    > 31 122 46
    > 31 123 83
    >


    On a nearby thread about license benchmarking clauses [2],
    Andy P. posted [3], somewhat tongue-in-cheek :
    >
    > Uh oh! The person who posted Synplify's results for that
    > 56-bit counter problem is in line for an ass-whooping!
    >


    I replied [4] in part:
    >
    > Personally, I wouldn't consider answering a question on how
    > to make a counter synthesize better to be a "benchmark"...
    >


    Then Ken M. of Brand S, formerly known as Brand S, posted [5]:
    >
    > We don't consider it to be a "benchmark" either.
    >


    Brian Davis


    [1] post from thread "High level synthesis will never work well"
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/msg/01e9d02b8e85983d

    [2] Thread "Synplicity/Leonardo License Agreement Information"
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/browse_frm/thread/a201fc7f4a639215

    [3] post from thread "Synplicity/Leonardo License Agreement
    Information"
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/msg/6f9694e180581202

    [4] post from thread "Synplicity/Leonardo License Agreement
    Information"
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/msg/172b3fbcb1ffe4a5

    [5] post from thread "Synplicity/Leonardo License Agreement
    Information"
    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.fpga/msg/52f4c2a915b383d3
     
    Brian Davis, Mar 9, 2011
    #2
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  3. Philippe

    Philippe Guest

    Hi Brian,

    Thanks for pointing to this conversation from 2001. It seems that EDA
    vendors are not interested in enforcing this clause for small
    benchmark results.
    Still it gives them a stick to hit you with if you would ever publish
    something serious. That leaves al the benchmarking work for the brave
    and those with little to loose.

    --
    Philippe
    http://www.sigasi.com
     
    Philippe, Mar 9, 2011
    #3
  4. On 8 Mrz., 16:09, Philippe <> wrote:
    > It was interesting to read some synthesis benchmarking results on
    > comp.lang.vhdl last week. I feel it's high time that EDA vendors drop
    > the anti-benchmarking clauses from their license agreements:


    Just make sure to purchase software in a way where that license
    agreement ist not included in a contract.
    A sales contract is finalized when goods and money have been
    exchanged. Afterwards no clauses can be
    added to the contract by one side alone.
    At least in Germany it is well established by court that this holds
    for software sales, and other countries have similar contract law.

    So as long as the clause is not included in a click through contract
    during a download purchase, or is presented
    to you before purchase in another way, the clause does not become part
    of the contract.
    Clauses presented during installation are irrelevant.

    Also note: Your contract is with the reseller, not with the vendor of
    the software. So information on the vendor homepage
    is irrelavant.

    For private users (not companies) the clause anyway is likely to
    violate EU law, because it is a surprising clause.

    Kolja
     
    Kolja Sulimma, Mar 10, 2011
    #4
  5. Philippe

    geobsd Guest

    why do you complain about you restricted softwares while the hardwer
    is much more closed ?
     
    geobsd, Mar 11, 2011
    #5
  6. Philippe <> sent on March 8th, 2011:

    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"It was interesting to read some synthesis benchmarking results on |
    |comp.lang.vhdl last week. I feel it's high time that EDA vendors drop|
    |the anti-benchmarking clauses from their license agreements: |
    | |
    |[..]" |
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|

    Who could feel confident about products which are not subjected to as
    much scrutiny as benchmarks from the Standard Performance Evaluation
    Corporation?
     
    Paul Colin Gloster, Apr 30, 2011
    #6
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