any repositories of professional looking css style sheets?

R

Rahul

Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets anywhere that
people would recommend? I was building my very-basic website to share some
engineering data. I found that the hardest task was styling stuff. I always
end up with ghastly looking colors size combinations etc. (I'm an aesthetic
ignoramus)

All the examples I found via google seemed linked to css tutorials but were
super flashy, garish-colors "buy-my-stuff" or artsy "in your face" kind.

Are there any better more professional looking stylesheets anywhere?
Something more sublte. I know that thats what design professionals are for
but I wasn't looking for anything super fancy. Just some basic style defs
for <h1> <table> etc. I'm sure this has been done before and don't want to
re-invent the wheel.

I did find a few good css files; eg. for Tables. I am pretty happy with the
look of my Tables so far:
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/118481/mqsql_html.jpg

But no luck for other elements. Any leads?

[ I use "mysql-->php-->html" to extract useful sub-sets. So it is a pretty
dynamic site. Which is why I didn't start with frontpage or a GUI like
that]
 
R

rf

Rahul said:
Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets
anywhere that people would recommend?

That's a bit like asking if there any good repositories of professional
house paint around.

You don't "obtain" a style sheet. You craft one to supply presentational
aspects to your HTML based content.
 
N

Newzie

Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets anywhere that
people would recommend? I was building my very-basic website to share some
engineering data. I found that the hardest task was styling stuff. I always
end up with ghastly looking colors size combinations etc. (I'm an aesthetic
ignoramus)

All the examples I found via google seemed linked to css tutorials but were
super flashy, garish-colors "buy-my-stuff" or artsy "in your face" kind.

Are there any better more professional looking stylesheets anywhere?
Something more sublte. I know that thats what design professionals are for
but I wasn't looking for anything super fancy. Just some basic style defs
for <h1> <table> etc. I'm sure this has been done before and don't want to
re-invent the wheel.

I did find a few good css files; eg. for Tables. I am pretty happy with the
look of my Tables so far:
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/118481/mqsql_html.jpg

But no luck for other elements. Any leads?

[ I use "mysql-->php-->html" to extract useful sub-sets. So it is a pretty
dynamic site. Which is why I didn't start with frontpage or a GUI like
that]

Nope.

You pretty much gotta find the display you like, then look inside to see
the how's.

http://www.cssheaven.com/

http://cssremix.com/
 
C

C A Upsdell

rf said:
That's a bit like asking if there any good repositories of professional
house paint around.

You don't "obtain" a style sheet. You craft one to supply presentational
aspects to your HTML based content.

I suspect that the OP is really interested in templates.
 
R

Roy A.

Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets anywhere that
people would recommend?

I would not recommend any such archives or repositories. One things
that springs in mind is http://www.blueprintcss.org/. I have never
used it, but it might be like something you want. And as you can see,
these things is complicatied, and it might not be what you want. (But
it would give you some basic ideas about design and webdesign.)
I was building my very-basic website to share some
engineering data. I found that the hardest task was styling stuff. I always
end up with ghastly looking colors size combinations etc. (I'm an aesthetic
ignoramus)

One basic and good idea is too use space instead of colors (items with
small spaces is more conectet to each other than items with larger
spaces. Ultimatily dou don't need colors. Try that first. Everything
can be seperatet width just three colors. Try that on a sheet of
paper. If you want to seperate things, three colors is enough).

I would recommend you to use a Content Management System (CMS). Most
CMS's comes with a decent set of styles that looks profecional, where
you can change the overall layout. If you don't want to us an CMS you
could always "steal" a css from an CMS with an GNU/GPL license.
All the examples I found via google seemed linked to css tutorials but were
super flashy, garish-colors "buy-my-stuff" or artsy "in your face" kind.

We don't know what you search for, but there is plenty decent
resourses on "the net".
Are there any better more professional looking stylesheets anywhere?
Something more sublte. I know  that thats what design professionals are for
but I wasn't looking for anything super fancy. Just some basic style defs
for  <h1> <table> etc. I'm sure this has been done before and don't want to
re-invent the wheel.

I did find a few good css files; eg. for Tables. I am pretty happy with the
look of my Tables so far:http://files.getdropbox.com/u/118481/mqsql_html.jpg

But no luck for other elements. Any leads?

[ I use "mysql-->php-->html" to extract useful sub-sets. So it is a pretty
dynamic site. Which is why I didn't start with frontpage or a GUI like
that]
 
R

Roy A.

Are there any better more professional looking stylesheets anywhere?
Something more sublte. I know  that thats what design professionals are for
but I wasn't looking for anything super fancy. Just some basic style defs
for  <h1> <table> etc. I'm sure this has been done before and don't want to
re-invent the wheel.

Don't worry. Most people in this group are not "design professionals",
but we would like to help you. Some of us are "design professionals",
but don't let that worry you. We are here becouse we like to help
people like you.
I did find a few good css files; eg. for Tables. I am pretty happy with the
look of my Tables so far:http://files.getdropbox.com/u/118481/mqsql_html.jpg

Ok, It looks decent enough, but if you don't learn some CSS you're
lost. How would you find anohter example that maches those colors?
But no luck for other elements. Any leads?

Most of the time you can change the looks of everything in css. Css is
designed to be simple, and it is. But you have to learn it. It's just
one hour away, too learn the basics.

I don't think it would be easyer too take an good css an then change
your html to make that css happen.
[ I use "mysql-->php-->html" to extract useful sub-sets. So it is a pretty
dynamic site. Which is why I didn't start with frontpage or a GUI like
that]

That sounds good. I like that. So if you're up to the task, the only
thing thas is missing is css. And that is more easy than mysql, php
and html.
 
R

Rahul

I suspect that the OP is really interested in templates.

Ah! Maybe, it is templates! I am not sure about the distinction Templates
for layout and CSS for the rest of the styling / formatting?
 
R

Rahul

Ok, It looks decent enough, but if you don't learn some CSS you're
lost. How would you find anohter example that maches those colors?

>
Most of the time you can change the looks of everything in css. Css is
designed to be simple, and it is. But you have to learn it. It's just
one hour away, too learn the basics.


Thanks for your comments Roy! I am all for learning CSS. In fact, I am
already using CSS for that very page I showed you. I did read up on some
css tutorials since seperating the content from formatting seems very
logical. I played around building my own styles ground up from scratch but
soon iscovered that it was more fruitful to start from a well designed
template css whose look I liked and then tweaking it. It was in that spirit
that I was looking for "repositories".
That sounds good. I like that. So if you're up to the task, the only
thing thas is missing is css. And that is more easy than mysql, php
and html.

Yup; I'm all for using CSS! :) Just want to start tweaking examples that
already look good. In in that sense a repo. would be good to play with a
bunch of good looking designs from.
 
R

Rahul

Roy A. said:
I would not recommend any such archives or repositories. One things

Why not?
that springs in mind is http://www.blueprintcss.org/. I have never

Thanks! That seems very promising and exactly what I had in mind when I
posted. It seems fairly elegant looking and does offer a set of
consistent styles for most common elements. eg. ul lists, tables, H1, H2
etc.
I would recommend you to use a Content Management System (CMS).

I had thought of exactly that before starting on this project and even
hae installed Drupal on my server. The problem is that Drupal seems good
for standard content types but for my mysql-->php-->(css)-->html data
mining project I couldn't figure out how to fit Drupal in. Maybe I am
using the wrong CMS? Any sugesstions for a CMS that'd be more amenable
to this sort of dynamic php-generated page management?

Or, maybe I am missing something in Drupal itself, since I am a Drupal
noob too and that piece of code is a complex beast.
Most
CMS's comes with a decent set of styles that looks profecional, where
you can change the overall layout. If you don't want to us an CMS you
could always "steal" a css from an CMS with an GNU/GPL license.


That sounds like a good idea. I had loved the look of Drupal managed
sites. that is exactly the look I had in mind and had installed Drupal
for. Until I was lost about how to push phps into the Drupal look.
 
R

Rahul

That's a bit like asking if there any good repositories of professional
house paint around.

You don't "obtain" a style sheet. You craft one to supply presentational
aspects to your HTML based content.

I've used the equivalent of stylesheet boiler plate for other similar
applications before. eg. Latex templates for various types of docs and
reports. Or beamer templates for presentations.

Of course, total blind slavery to a cookie cutter template is bad but I
don't see anything bad in starting from one and then tweaking it around?
 
D

dorayme

Rahul said:
I've used the equivalent of stylesheet boiler plate for other similar
applications before. eg. Latex templates for various types of docs and
reports. Or beamer templates for presentations.

Of course, total blind slavery to a cookie cutter template is bad but I
don't see anything bad in starting from one and then tweaking it around?

You do know that you always already start with a cookie cutter template
of sorts? It is called the default CSS that browsers use. This is about
the only universally portable template. All the others are about
particular tailorings to particular HTML markups...

If you like an HTML/CSS design, there is nothing *wrong* in using it and
adapting it.
 
S

SMHealthNick

 I've used the equivalent of stylesheet boiler plate for other similar
applications before. eg. Latex templates for various types of docs and
reports. Or beamer templates for presentations.

Of course, total blind slavery to a cookie cutter template is bad but I
don't see anything bad in starting from one and then tweaking it around?


You are ABSOLUTELY correct. Sometimes people are looking for
information on a site, not originality, and it would is good to
catalog some of the best basic templates.
 
A

Andy Dingley

Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets anywhere that
people would recommend?

No, because I think I know what I really do need here and I don't know
of anywhere that offers it.

if you want a bare stylesheet (which you don't), try Visual Studio
(yes, really). Much condemned, but the bare stylesheets they used to
bundle did at least include sensible sets of colours and a reasonabe
graphic look.

Why the bare stylesheet doesn't work in practice is that you need a
site meta-structure to be defined first. This exists on top of of the
pre-defined HTML & CSS specifications and best practices, is shared by
all(sic) the pages of your site and is pretty much essential for
getting anywhere. Techniques for expressing such a meta-structure are
still imprecise and largely manual.

When you draw your site's wireframes you'll design "a big box of
content over here, two skinny columns stacked on top of each other on
the right, and a little legal boilerplate footer hiding down the
bottom." or something of that ilk. The meta-structure is a record of
both this, and some behaviours for these content elements as the
window resizes etc., i.e. as the window width changes, how do the
blocks re-flow amongst each other?

The meta-structure will usually describe pages at at least two levels:
one is the site's overall behaviours, the other is for groups of pages
within the site that have a similar look. Often the site sets the
presentation style, the sub-groups how many columns etc. and their
relative fluidity. Some large sites might also them content-based
subgroups (e.g. "News" in red, "Features" in blue) and that's a third
or further layer of categorization within the meta-structure.

Your abstract meta-structure is then used to define an
implementational HTML structure that your pages can follow: the number
and grouping of the <div> elements etc. used to construct each content
block (and how many are needed to achieve the presentational effects
you want), the identifier and class annotations you use here to attach
the CSS itself. Also consider the linear sequence of these elements,
within the HTML.

You should now have HTML pages that "work" in a minimal style (a
necessary condition for accessibility), even without the styling. This
simple linearised version is what the web spiders and speech readers
will see.

On top of this, you write the CSS. This is actually quite simple, as
the design "decisions" have already been taken when definining the
meta structure, the CSS merely makes an incarnation of this. It's a
technically skilled task and still has some choices to be made about
choosing some techniques over others to gain wider browser support
etc., but largely it's now a process of mechanical labour.

Note two somewhat controversial things about this approach:

* The HTML is somewhat presentational. This is deliberate, because
although the HTML 4 + CSS approach is widely assumed to _absolutely_
separate content and presentation, this is a falsehood. You need
presentational HTML in HTML 4.01 Strict. What should be avoided are
the HTML 3.2 leftovers, the presentational properties of old HTML.

The HTML is modified (i.e. extended) according to presentational
needs. CSS does _not_ assume that any HTML can be styled to achieve
any result (read Haakon Lie's PhD thesis) - for simplicity in CSS'
implementation and use, it relies on there already being enough
"hooks" in the HTML to achieve your presentation style, it's not a
styling language like DSSSL (or in some ways, XSLT) that has the
ability to transform or extend the underlying content document. What
should still be permitted for "presentation HTML" (i.e. current best-
practice HTML coding) are additional structural expressions in HTML
that were only required by presentation requirements, not content
semantics.

* Secondly we can't build a CSS Zen Garden. CSS doesn't support zen
gardens (and never did), it's not a goal of CSS that "any" document
can be styled to achieve "any" result. For non-trivial presentations
you _do_ need to extend the HTML.

Of course pre-building HTML to address a superset of all the likely
zen gardens does mean that in practice you can still achieve skinning
by changing the CSS alone.


So how does all of this influence the (self-evidently obvious)
shortage of off-the-shelf CSS libraries? Because such a library
(barring trivial colour schemes) just isn't enough. You need the meta
structure too, and first.

There are a few sites that do offer such a thing. I'm not aware of any
that support "CSS repositories for sites", but if you look at good
examples (Bluerobot's well-known 3-column layout, for example) you'll
see this meta-structure approach at work, but just for one aspect of
page design, not as libraries for entire sites.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Are there any good archives / repositories of css stylesheets anywhere that
people would recommend?

Recommend? No not really, but if you google "CSS templates" you will
be rewarded with a ton of samples. You can probably go from there.
 

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