Aplication Server, To have or not

Discussion in 'Java' started by Chris Lethare, Jul 1, 2005.

  1. Hi!

    I am in a discussion at work wether to implement an application server or not when using
    java in a GNU/Linux environment.

    The apps that are supposed to be written in java will reveice transactions from a socket and
    depending on the transaction it will do some logic (select/update/insert from MySql) and deliver an answer on the same socket. If we do not use an application server we will just start
    a C deamon that starts the java code. There will be several java applications running on the system this way and each of them will have its unique task.


    Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates the system and it
    will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it seems like an overkill
    product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care of by the
    hardware on the network.


    So can someone please point out when to use application server and when not to.


    /Chris
    Chris Lethare, Jul 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. Chris Lethare

    Wendy Smoak Guest

    "Chris Lethare" <chris****> wrote

    > The apps that are supposed to be written in java will reveice transactions
    > from a socket and
    > depending on the transaction it will do some logic (select/update/insert
    > from MySql) and deliver
    > an answer on the same socket. If we do not use an application server we
    > will just start
    > a C deamon that starts the java code. There will be several java
    > applications running on
    > the system this way and each of them will have its unique task.
    >
    > Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates
    > the system and it
    > will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it
    > seems like an overkill
    > product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care
    > of by the
    > hardware on the network.
    >
    > So can someone please point out when to use application server and when
    > not to.
    >


    When you need one, and not if you don't. ;) JBoss does sound like overkill
    here. Tomcat, however, might be useful... it will give you a manageable
    environment for all of these apps to live in, handle the threading for you,
    etc. You can group the tasks into 'webapps' and stop/start them together
    while not affecting other groups. (And publish documentation right
    alongside them...)

    Assuming you don't want to go the whole "Web Services" route, you could just
    have a Servlet receiving requests for each of your 'tasks'. So something
    out there sends a request to http://www.example.com:8765/appname/TaskName .
    The corresponding Servlet parses the request [which could be anything...]
    does what it needs to do, and responds.

    That's still probably overkill for what you want to do... now. But what if
    this thing grows? And how easy is it to maintain? Think about the next guy
    who's going to have to work on it. :)

    --
    Wendy Smoak
    Wendy Smoak, Jul 1, 2005
    #2
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  3. Chris Lethare

    Guest


    > Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates the system and it
    > will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it seems like an overkill
    > product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care of by the
    > hardware on the network.
    >
    >
    > So can someone please point out when to use application server and when not to.
    >
    >
    > /Chris


    IMHO, the value of a full app server is becomming less and less
    everyday. Politically what an app server can provide is CYA and
    marketing. Technically it seperates stock Java and Tomcat by providing
    JMS and EJB, although openjms is available for tomcat. An example of
    days past is a Datasource, now a commodity. Without needing clustering
    the reasons are even less.

    What EJB can offer is transaction support and security. However,
    Hibernate - which EJB 3.0 largely intends to mimmick when it arrives -
    IMHO does a much better job in a less intrusive way. The Spring project
    - which should be given a look at for any Java project - reduces lines
    of code by providing boiler plate operations, replacing the need for
    Abstract Factories, and in general is a great fit for Hibernate or
    alternatively pure SQL coding. The Spring sub-project Acegi does the
    security part.

    So in short, IMHO, Spring and Hibernate is a reaction to your type of
    question. Or even simpler - a small project could get away with pure
    JDBC just fine.

    HTH,
    iksrazal
    http://www.braziloutsource.com/
    , Jul 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Chris Lethare

    Roedy Green Guest

    On 1 Jul 2005 04:20:50 -0500, "Chris Lethare" <chris****>
    wrote or quoted :

    >So can someone please point out when to use application server and when not to.
    >

    it depends on how long it takes to fire up the application.

    The downside is client A using the server can possibly screw it up for
    client B coming later. The old fashioned way, each client starts
    afresh.

    --
    Bush crime family lost/embezzled $3 trillion from Pentagon.
    Complicit Bush-friendly media keeps mum. Rumsfeld confesses on video.
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/mckinney_grills_rumsfeld.htm

    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    See http://mindprod.com/iraq.html photos of Bush's war crimes
    Roedy Green, Jul 1, 2005
    #4
  5. Chris Lethare

    Joan Guest

    "Chris Lethare" <chris****> wrote in message
    news:42c50af2$...
    > Hi!
    >
    > I am in a discussion at work wether to implement an application server or

    not when using
    > java in a GNU/Linux environment.
    >
    > The apps that are supposed to be written in java will reveice transactions

    from a socket and
    > depending on the transaction it will do some logic (select/update/insert

    from MySql) and deliver an answer on the same socket. If we do not use an
    application server we will just start
    > a C deamon that starts the java code. There will be several java

    applications running on the system this way and each of them will have its
    unique task.
    >
    >
    > Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates

    the system and it
    > will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it

    seems like an overkill
    > product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care

    of by the
    > hardware on the network.
    >
    >
    > So can someone please point out when to use application server and when

    not to.
    >

    Definitions of Application Server on the Web:

    a.. An application server is a server program in a computer within a
    distributed network that provides the business logic for an application
    program. The application server is frequently viewed as part of a three-tier
    application, consisting of a graphical user interface (GUI) server, an
    application (business logic) server, and a database and transaction server.
    www.lanyon.com/support/Glossary/Glossarya-d.htm
    Joan, Jul 1, 2005
    #5
  6. Chris Lethare wrote:
    > Hi!
    >
    > I am in a discussion at work wether to implement an application server or not when using
    > java in a GNU/Linux environment.
    >
    > The apps that are supposed to be written in java will reveice transactions from a socket and
    > depending on the transaction it will do some logic (select/update/insert from MySql) and deliver an answer on the same socket. If we do not use an application server we will just start
    > a C deamon that starts the java code. There will be several java applications running on the system this way and each of them will have its unique task.
    >
    >
    > Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates the system and it
    > will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it seems like an overkill
    > product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care of by the
    > hardware on the network.
    >
    >
    > So can someone please point out when to use application server and when not to.
    >


    A major consideration is that a secure, reliable server is difficult to
    write. If the application is on a machine exposed to the public
    Internet, I would stick with an application server.

    Ray

    --
    XML is the programmer's duct tape.
    Raymond DeCampo, Jul 2, 2005
    #6
  7. Chris Lethare

    Dale King Guest

    wrote:
    >>Why should I use an application server? In my eyes this only complicates the system and it
    >>will be harder to maintain and trace errors. I looked at JBoss and it seems like an overkill
    >>product for my purposes. We do not need cluster cause this is taking care of by the
    >>hardware on the network.
    >>
    >>
    >>So can someone please point out when to use application server and when not to.
    >>
    >>
    >>/Chris

    >
    >
    > IMHO, the value of a full app server is becomming less and less
    > everyday. Politically what an app server can provide is CYA and
    > marketing. Technically it seperates stock Java and Tomcat by providing
    > JMS and EJB, although openjms is available for tomcat. An example of
    > days past is a Datasource, now a commodity. Without needing clustering
    > the reasons are even less.


    Here is an interview with Peter Yared, a former CTO of Sun, that says
    app servers once had value but that value is less and pretty much
    non-existent with XML and web services.

    http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail514.html

    --
    Dale King
    Dale King, Jul 2, 2005
    #7
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