Article: "Hi jackasses, RTFM and stop wasting our time trying to help you children learn."

R

Roedy Green

We also pay a Car Tax for road use. Without it, you cant even keep a
car on a public road - never mind drive one on it!

The point is still that a huge chunk of money comes out of general
revenue for the road system, which includes building, buying right of
ways, snow removal, cleaning up accidents, patrolling for traffic
violations, traffic lights, repaving, bridges, tunnels...

People without cars pay for all this, but they also indirectly use it
since goods are trucked around on the system.

I think the key would be to stop playing subsidy games and build in
the costs more directly so that the true cost of transport would be
born by goods and people travelling. Then we would make more rational
decisions about what sort of transport to use, and when it pays to
import from a distance, when it is best to use a bus vs a car.

For example, rail is underused because there the railway company pays
for the maintenance of the road beds. Trucking is overused because
general revenue pays for the maintenance of their road beds and for
the cost of the land.

A big hidden transportation cost is the land that the right of ways
tie up. Imagine the bonanza if some future technology made roads
unnecessary, and cities could sell off all the land they have tied up
in roads and right of ways.
 
L

Luc The Perverse

Roedy Green said:
This difference is the US road system is subsidised by general revenue
where in most parts of the world the gas tax pays for it. You could
look on it as a $3.00 a gallon subsidy.

OMG is that what it is?

Apparently whoever did that has never heard of the laffer curve.

Haven't you noticed that people in places that pay per the liter what we pay
per the gallon that people drive ultra fuel efficient motorscooters and the
like? (Not that this is bad for the environment I suppose.)
 
M

Monique Y. Mudama

We also pay a Car Tax for road use. Without it, you cant even keep
a car on a public road - never mind drive one on it!

Most (all?) states here in the US have a yearly car property tax.
Granted, it goes down every year that you own the car.

Then again, interstate highways are at least partially federally
funded, and we don't pay a car property tax to the federal government.

I wonder if it's true that driving an old gas guzzler is still overall
environmentally more friendly than a new hyper-efficient vehicle,
because the production of a vehicle is so wasteful.

Anyway, riding a bicycle when you can is a nice way to save money,
save energy, and get in better shape =)
 
M

Martin Gregorie

IIRC UK petrol tax brings in enough money to cover maintaining the
highway system and passes a surplus into general government revenue.
However its hard to tell what any individual government department
spends because the treasury bungs it all into one pot and complains like
hell if anybody tries to introduce separately allocated and budgeted
funds.
Then again, interstate highways are at least partially federally
funded, and we don't pay a car property tax to the federal government.
...and don't forget that the Interstate system was built on the military
budget following WW2 - it was transport difficulties during WW2 that
convinced the military that it needed good coast to coast roads. To give
you an idea of just what roads were like in the early/mid 40s, Richard
Feynman mentioned getting three punctures just driving from Los Alamos
to Santa Fee.
I wonder if it's true that driving an old gas guzzler is still overall
environmentally more friendly than a new hyper-efficient vehicle,
because the production of a vehicle is so wasteful.
I think that depends on whether its recyclable, but I don't think cars
like the Prius are nearly as fuel-efficient as it could be.
 
D

Danno

Smokes pot and tobacco on the trains?

Like Jules Winfield says "Im fucking going, that's all there is to it"
;)
 
R

Roedy Green

Smokes pot and tobacco on the trains?

It is strange. Since nearly everyone of all ages bikes, they are all
remarkably fit and healthy. The food, even at fast food stands, is
superb. Yet they go and smoke. It just seems so incongruous.

They are such a happy people, calling out "Haloo" to each other as
they bomb around on their bicycles.

I'm hoping the end of oil will make North America more like the
Netherlands.

If people tended to stay home, or work close to home, that might
develop more of a community spirit. Increased transportation costs and
better telecommuting technology could push that along.
 
M

Monique Y. Mudama

It is strange. Since nearly everyone of all ages bikes, they are all
remarkably fit and healthy. The food, even at fast food stands, is
superb. Yet they go and smoke. It just seems so incongruous.

Not too strange, if the ultimate goal is a good life, not just health.
(Personally I can't stand cigarette smoke, so regardless of how
wonderful the life might be, and how fun it sounds to ride a bicycle
everywhere and eat great food, the presence of cigarette fumes
everywhere would completely ruin it for me.)
 
H

Hendrik Maryns

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Hash: SHA1

Roedy Green schreef:
when I was last there they had their mini rush hour traffic jams, but
nothing like the ones I've see in the USA and Canada.

Only in Paris :p
The big difference is the train system. I burst out laughing at the
announcements that came over the PA in a John Cleese deeply serious
voice "We deeply regret that the train to Twickenham on Entwhistle
will be a minute and 30 seconds late." The trains are huge, spacious,
frequent, safe and comfortable. That is how you would get to work.

I’ve never been on your side, so I can’t compare, but being stuffed into
a train where you can’t even have a seat for 1 and a half hour isn’t all
that comfortable either.
The people silently read newspapers. In the Netherlands the trains
are rolling parties. Everyone talks to everyone and smokes, both pot
and tobacco.

That is a /slight/ exaggeration. Before you go about smoking hash on
the train, you should a) be in a smoking department b) at least ask your
fellow travellers whether they object to it. b) is of course not
official, but you’ll very probably get angry looks if you don’t.

H.
- --
Hendrik Maryns

==================
http://aouw.org
Ask smart questions, get good answers:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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D

derek

The people silently read newspapers. In the Netherlands the trains
That is a /huge/ exaggeration.

All trains in The Netherlands are no-smoking-areas, even the station itself is.
All public places in The Netherlands are no-smoking-areas.

Not *everyone* in The Netherlands is smoking pot. In fact, only a very small
minority does. Most people in The Netherlands don't want to have anyting to
do with smoking, smoking pot and/or doing drugs.
 
L

Lion-O

Just saw this interesting opinion article about how abusive Linux snobs are
to Linux newbies who want to give the OS a chance.

Well, being one of those snobs I consider the article very biased, it also
totally ignores the background as to why some of these people present
themselves in the way they do and also seems to totally ignore the actual
conversation.

On the topic of Linux its safe to say that many of the bigger distributions
come with many documentation. Not all of this is of high quality but when it
comes to basic issues like starting/stopping programs, logging in, selecting
window managers, etc. you can find it all in either the userguides or the many
FAQs out there. A key issue to this mentioned problem is that many people are
willing to try another OS (especially since they obviously heard many good
stories about it) but don't seem to be willing to spend much time on learning
it.

While that is their own choice to make its becoming annoying when it becomes
obvious that they're trying to use other people as a substitute for spending
the time, and in many cases get totally outraged when someone suggest that they
actually spend some time on their basic skills.

When taking a look at that example about the webserver ("how do I start process
daemons like a web server" / "Hi jackass, RTFM and stop wasting our time trying
to help you children learn."). Starting to call people names like this is
something I wouldn't approve off, but in many cases I would also respond in an
RTFM type of answer. Probably in the likes of "use one of the rc.d scripts
found in /etc/init.d/ RTFM". There are many people who don't like such an
answer and immediatly feel highly insulted.

In most cases, but thats just my opinion, the problem starts the moment that
someone starts asking about certain issues while clearly showing that he hasn't
spend one minute on reading / looking for any basics. That is an absolute basis
for snappy remarks. Some start scolding, others become cynical... Personally I
can understand this quite well; some people spend quite some time on writing
and maitaining documentation and these days its rather common for newbies to
start by totally ignoring this. Ofcourse not everytime, but from a personal
observation I do see a growing amount of people who approach it this way.

While I respect the "linux snobs" I also can understand the motivation behind
some of the newbies. They're obviously used to Windows-like environments where
most things can be done without the need for any manual. When it comes to user
interfaces I think that Microsoft has done a remarkable job; its IMO undenyable
that whenever you put a newbie behind an environment like Windows XP or the
likes it doesn't take them too long to grasp its basics. And when you read many
stories about how great and easy Linux is (www.linspire.com -> 'what is Linux'
-> "Linux is... Virus & Spyware Free! Ultra Affordable! Super Stable! There is
a growing interest in using Linux on the desktop computer, and these days it's
easier than ever to try.".

Lets say I'm a little better than the average newbie and I actually use Google
to get more information: (http://www.google.com/search?q=linux. I get
linux.org, linux.com, redhat.com, debian.org, etc.). Let the confusion begin!
Linux is a free unix-like OS. Good, Linux OS. But I have RedHat Linux, Debian
Linux, Linux Linux....

By the time they finally found a distribution and managed to burn it to CD I'm
also quite sure they lost all the will to do any more reading and would prefer
some actual action :)


So concluding: I don't think it is fair to speak of "Linux snobs" and "Linux
newbies/cluebies" per facto. It depends on simply way too much different
factors. And for the record; I too think that the 'smart questions page' is an
excellent piece of work.
I hope no one here ventures into that much rudeness when it comes to java.

Rudeness is in the eyes of the beholder. These days people can get upset when
you point them to the documentation. But I do agree that some of the examples
pointed out on that website are over the top. Still, I am a bit sceptical about
the whole story.


The reason why I don't think this will happen in the Java groups, at least not
in that extend, is that Java is already something beyond your Joe Doe computer
user. Its not about someone who bought a PC, learned his way around Windows and
now wants something "better" and expects it to be just as Windows.

Instead your target audience is now a group of people who are mostly a little
further with computer knowledge than that. Ofcourse that too is generalizing,
even with Java you encounter people who want to to "do Java" but immediatly
display a total lack of understanding and willingless.

Perhaps the approach is still friendlier in here, in most cases they tend to
get ignored. I'm pretty positive that in other groups / forums such people
might also get a little other response.
 
R

Roedy Green

at least ask your
fellow travellers whether they object to it.

I remember that. I was so puzzled. I remember thinking "who do they
think I am that I have the power to give permission for an illegal
act?"

It is hard to get away from tobacco there. The only other negative
thing I have to say about the Netherlands is the compete lack of
public washrooms. The for pay ones are sort of like going to a
Catholic school, lorded over by a nun-like being eyeing everyone
suspiciously and handing out squares of toilet paper.
 
R

Roedy Green

Not *everyone* in The Netherlands is smoking pot. In fact, only a very small
minority does. Most people in The Netherlands don't want to have anyting to
do with smoking, smoking pot and/or doing drugs.

Tobacco smoking is rampant, not pot smoking. The pot smoking is
confined to "coffee shops". I went to one coffee shop and ordered
coffee. They said they had run out, but they might have some if I came
back in a few hours. "coffee shop" means pot shop.

The image I had was there would be people lolling about on all manner
of drugs. The reality is there is almost no sign of drug use on the
streets. It is quite different from a North American city.
 
D

derek

The only other negative thing I have to say about the
Netherlands is the compete lack of public washrooms.

I agree, that is a bit of a problem over here. Fortunatly,
some big stores like V&D and Bijenkorf have public toilets.
 
R

Roedy Green

The most positive thing is the beauty of the canals and the giant elm
tree lined streets. It is just breathtaking. I was really quite
surprised how beautiful the cities of Europe were. Why on earth did we
North Americans design such relatively ugly ones with models like that
we could have copied? I asked that question before, and the answer
was "for the convenience of automobiles. European cities were
designed for the convenience of people and carts." The design makes
such a HUGE difference to livability. I would never dream of living
downtown in a North American city, but I would be completely happy to
live in downtown in a European city (if I could afford it).
 
O

Oliver Wong

Chris Smith said:
I took a shot at:


It's not complete. It's on a Wiki though, so feel free to contribute.

I added some stuff there. I noticed that words with PascalCase are
automatically turned into wiki links. In my case, this is "lucky" in that
all the stuff I wrote in PascalCase turned out to be exception names (e.g.
NullPointerException, ClassNotFoundException), and it might be handy to have
seperate pages on that topic. However, I was too lazy to actually bother to
explain what these exceptions mean and how one could resolve them, so
there's now a few extra dead links on the above mentioned page.

- Oliver
 
C

Chris Smith

Oliver Wong said:
I added some stuff there. I noticed that words with PascalCase are
automatically turned into wiki links. In my case, this is "lucky" in that
all the stuff I wrote in PascalCase turned out to be exception names (e.g.
NullPointerException, ClassNotFoundException), and it might be handy to have
seperate pages on that topic. However, I was too lazy to actually bother to
explain what these exceptions mean and how one could resolve them, so
there's now a few extra dead links on the above mentioned page.

Thanks.

Dead links are not bad on JINX. In fact, there's a script that scans
through and generates a list of them whenever I run it, and posts it as
a recommendation for anyone looking to contribute. That page is at:

http://riters.com/JINX/index.cgi/MissingPages

--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way To Train Anyone... Anywhere.

Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation
 

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