ASP vs ASP.NET development time

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of thumb,
    between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you more
    productive? Well, by how much?

    I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But if
    anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question, please
    do.
    =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=, Apr 17, 2005
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=

    Mark Rae Guest

    "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    > thumb,
    > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
    > more
    > productive? Well, by how much?
    >
    > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
    > if
    > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    > please
    > do.


    It largely depends what you're doing. The web controls themselves increase
    productivity dramatically. A good example of this is paging and sorting data
    in tabular form. This was a real chore in ASP classic whereas the
    <asp:DataGrid> control makes it a breeze in ASP.NET
    Mark Rae, Apr 17, 2005
    #2
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  3. Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with consulting
    firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
    hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.

    "Mark Rae" wrote:

    > "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    > > thumb,
    > > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
    > > more
    > > productive? Well, by how much?
    > >
    > > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    > > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
    > > if
    > > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    > > please
    > > do.

    >
    > It largely depends what you're doing. The web controls themselves increase
    > productivity dramatically. A good example of this is paging and sorting data
    > in tabular form. This was a real chore in ASP classic whereas the
    > <asp:DataGrid> control makes it a breeze in ASP.NET
    >
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=, Apr 17, 2005
    #3
  4. =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=

    Mark Rae Guest

    "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with
    > consulting
    > firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
    > hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.


    15%, 20%, 25% - who cares? They're just meaningless numbers.

    In my opinion, any consulting firm who had actually taken a "reasonable"
    sample of typical web projects (at least 10 to make a fair sample) and had
    timed how long they had taken to write them in ASP and then in ASP.NET
    *really* has nothing better to do, and you might wonder why they have so
    little real work on their books... :)
    Mark Rae, Apr 17, 2005
    #4
  5. ASP.NET is:

    1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
    statements
    2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
    3. More completely integrated with IIS
    4. More integrated with the operating system

    Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP and
    ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
    project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time making
    the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
    ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.

    I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
    shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely hold
    on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
    namespace) and practices.

    --
    Gregory A. Beamer
    MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA

    ***********************************************
    Think outside the box!
    ***********************************************
    "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    > thumb,
    > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
    > more
    > productive? Well, by how much?
    >
    > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
    > if
    > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    > please
    > do.
    Cowboy \(Gregory A. Beamer\), Apr 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Yes, I agree the number is meaningless, seemed to me also.

    Btw, I found the rest of your comment very amusing - I don't think any
    consulting firm has taken the time to do this, they'd rather quote you the
    80/20 rule. That was sort of my point.

    Maybe someone from MS can come back to us with a controlled study they have
    done to answer this question - same set of requirements being implemented
    with ASP and with ASP.Net. By controlled I mean keeping as many of the
    variables the same as possible, same developer, same set of reqs, same
    platforms, just this one difference. Anyhow, I dont know why I am saying
    this, it's almost as amusing as your comment was to me.

    thanks.

    "Mark Rae" wrote:

    > "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > Yes, I agree it is a tough generalization. Yet when I talk with
    > > consulting
    > > firms giving me the comparison between ASP and ASP.NET one of the things I
    > > hear is 20% difference in coding time. They want to 80/20 everything.

    >
    > 15%, 20%, 25% - who cares? They're just meaningless numbers.
    >
    > In my opinion, any consulting firm who had actually taken a "reasonable"
    > sample of typical web projects (at least 10 to make a fair sample) and had
    > timed how long they had taken to write them in ASP and then in ASP.NET
    > *really* has nothing better to do, and you might wonder why they have so
    > little real work on their books... :)
    >
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=, Apr 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Good points, thanks.

    "Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" wrote:

    > ASP.NET is:
    >
    > 1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
    > statements
    > 2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
    > 3. More completely integrated with IIS
    > 4. More integrated with the operating system
    >
    > Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP and
    > ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
    > project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time making
    > the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
    > ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.
    >
    > I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
    > shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely hold
    > on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
    > namespace) and practices.
    >
    > --
    > Gregory A. Beamer
    > MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA
    >
    > ***********************************************
    > Think outside the box!
    > ***********************************************
    > "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    > > thumb,
    > > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
    > > more
    > > productive? Well, by how much?
    > >
    > > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    > > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc. But
    > > if
    > > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    > > please
    > > do.

    >
    >
    >
    =?Utf-8?B?d2hvZHVuaXQ=?=, Apr 17, 2005
    #7
  8. I don't agree... In any language or development platform, there are good
    coding practices and bad ones. I was forced to learn C# and I'm happy that
    I did as it make my skills more valuable, but the language itelf does not
    suggest the quality of your code. You can learn C# and still have bad
    coding practices. I see it all over the internet in coding samples, just as
    well as I see good samples in VB.

    Bottom line, don't get hung up on the language. It's much easier to learn
    ..NET if you don't have to learn another language syntax on top of it. Keep
    in mind, however, that regardless of the fact that both languages use the
    same CLR, C# developers typically get paid more.

    If you do plan to transfer your skills to C# this book helped me
    tremendously: C# & VB.NET Conversion Pocket Reference (Paperback) by Jose
    Mojica

    Andrea


    "Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > ASP.NET is:
    >
    > 1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
    > statements
    > 2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command, etc.
    > 3. More completely integrated with IIS
    > 4. More integrated with the operating system
    >
    > Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP

    and
    > ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
    > project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time

    making
    > the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
    > ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.
    >
    > I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
    > shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely

    hold
    > on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
    > namespace) and practices.
    >
    > --
    > Gregory A. Beamer
    > MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA
    >
    > ***********************************************
    > Think outside the box!
    > ***********************************************
    > "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    > > thumb,
    > > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes you
    > > more
    > > productive? Well, by how much?
    > >
    > > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    > > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc.

    But
    > > if
    > > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    > > please
    > > do.

    >
    >
    Andrea L. Williams, Apr 18, 2005
    #8
  9. I believe what Greg was saying is that when one is new to .Net, it helps to
    change the way one thinks about programming, and learning a different syntax
    may help one to think differently as well. I don't believe he meant to
    belittle VB.Net.

    The thing that surprises me is that so many VB developers are so touchy
    about their favorite language. Methinks they doth protest too much.

    --
    HTH,

    Kevin Spencer
    Microsoft MVP
    ..Net Developer
    What You Seek Is What You Get.

    "Andrea L. Williams" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I don't agree... In any language or development platform, there are good
    > coding practices and bad ones. I was forced to learn C# and I'm happy
    > that
    > I did as it make my skills more valuable, but the language itelf does not
    > suggest the quality of your code. You can learn C# and still have bad
    > coding practices. I see it all over the internet in coding samples, just
    > as
    > well as I see good samples in VB.
    >
    > Bottom line, don't get hung up on the language. It's much easier to learn
    > .NET if you don't have to learn another language syntax on top of it.
    > Keep
    > in mind, however, that regardless of the fact that both languages use the
    > same CLR, C# developers typically get paid more.
    >
    > If you do plan to transfer your skills to C# this book helped me
    > tremendously: C# & VB.NET Conversion Pocket Reference (Paperback) by Jose
    > Mojica
    >
    > Andrea
    >
    >
    > "Cowboy (Gregory A. Beamer)" <> wrote
    > in
    > message news:...
    >> ASP.NET is:
    >>
    >> 1. Easier to debug - No more Response.Write(variableWhereItBlewUp)
    >> statements
    >> 2. Easier to do basic tasks - set up database connection and command,
    >> etc.
    >> 3. More completely integrated with IIS
    >> 4. More integrated with the operating system
    >>
    >> Now, in order to compare speed of development, you have to know both ASP

    > and
    >> ASP.NET. If you only know ASP, you have a learning curve, so your first
    >> project will take longer. In addition, if you do not spend some time

    > making
    >> the paradigm shift, you will write ASP in ASP.NET, which equates to bad
    >> ASP.NET. You may write it faster, but it is still bad code.
    >>
    >> I suggest to ASP developers to switch to C#. Then, you make the paradigm
    >> shift with the code style shift. If you stay in VB.NET, you will likely

    > hold
    >> on to your crutches (Items in the Microsoft.VisualBasic.Compatibility
    >> namespace) and practices.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Gregory A. Beamer
    >> MVP; MCP: +I, SE, SD, DBA
    >>
    >> ***********************************************
    >> Think outside the box!
    >> ***********************************************
    >> "whodunit" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > What is the difference in development time, if you can use a rule of
    >> > thumb,
    >> > between ASP and ASP.NET? I have read many places that ASP.NET makes
    >> > you
    >> > more
    >> > productive? Well, by how much?
    >> >
    >> > I hear all the time that ASP.NET improves development time by 20%. I
    >> > realize there are many factors to consider, the type of project, etc.

    > But
    >> > if
    >> > anyone can generalize without losing the value to answer my question,
    >> > please
    >> > do.

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Kevin Spencer, Apr 18, 2005
    #9
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