BARRIER - json, thin, eventmachine - do not install on windows

[Ilias Lazaridis]

I use a fresh installation of ruby 1.9.2p180 to make some tests with
web-frameworks on a windows machine.

Most installation of libraries went through without problems.

Except: json and thin (the eventmachine part)

"
Fetching: eventmachine-0.12.10.gem (100%)
ERROR: Error installing thin:
The 'eventmachine' native gem requires installed build tools.
"

for JSON there is a json_pure replacement (gem install json_pure).

is there any replacement for "eventmachine"?

Requirement:

installation without any (either manual or automatic) compilation
steps.

..

 

[Steve Klabnik]

[Note: parts of this message were removed to make it a legal post.]

There isn't, EventMachine is written in C++, for performance.

 

[Christopher Dicely]

I use a fresh installation of ruby 1.9.2p180 to make some tests with
web-frameworks on a windows machine.

Most installation of libraries went through without problems.

Except: json and thin (the eventmachine part)

"
Fetching: eventmachine-0.12.10.gem (100%)
ERROR: =C2=A0Error installing thin:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The 'eventmachine' native gem requires instal= led build tools.
"

for JSON there is a json_pure replacement (gem install json_pure).

is there any replacement for "eventmachine"?

No, thin requires eventmachine. There are, of course, many Ruby web
servers besides thin. Making a recommendation as to which would best
serve your needs requires knowing more about you needs than what
you've stated.

Requirement:

installation without any (either manual or automatic) compilation

Why is this a requirement? Why can't you just use devkit on windows?
It works quite well.

 

[Luis Lavena]

I use a fresh installation of ruby 1.9.2p180 to make some tests with
web-frameworks on a windows machine.

Please: stop adding "BARRIER" to your posts, it is clear you're having
problems and there is no need to overstate them.

Most installation of libraries went through without problems.

Except: json and thin (the eventmachine part)

The binaries for JSON ddin't work across versions of Ruby (1.8.x and
1.9.x) and that is the reason these binaries were requested to be
removed:

http://help.rubygems.org/discussions/problems/541-the-case-about-yanking-json-windows-binaries

In the current version of EventMachine there is no binaries, but pre-
release version (1.0.x) does provides binaries, so does Thin:

https://rubygems.org/gems/thin/versions/1.2.11-x86-mingw32
https://rubygems.org/gems/eventmachine/versions/1.0.0.beta.3-x86-mingw32

"
Fetching: eventmachine-0.12.10.gem (100%)
ERROR:  Error installing thin:
        The 'eventmachine' native gem requires installed build tools.
"

You're removing the part that state how to install development tools
to be able to successfully compile it.

It was intentional?

If you're working on other platform than Windows, it will be required
for you to have development tools to compile these gems. In this case,
and by current releases, it is required, but newer releases might not
require them.

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Please: stop

[...] - (subjecting personal writing style )

The binaries for JSON
[...] - (complex information)

In the current version of EventMachine
[...] - (complex information)

-

May someone can tell me:

Who can provide / upload the native gems (windows binaries) of the
"eventmachine"?

And who could provide / upload an automated fall-back to the
"json_pure" if "json" cannot be build locally?

..

 

[Johnny Morrice]

Please: stop adding "BARRIER" to your posts, it is clear you're having

problems and there is no need to overstate them.

Um, it's Ilias. He's trolling.

All he is going to do is to flame you for making "off-topic remarks".

Pretty much he's going to annoy the list with pointless trolling, and
then he will write an angry review of ruby, just to piss people off
more.

On the last "BARRIER" a few folk mentioned that he is a well known
idiot. It's true! He does this to many lists.

P.S. here is some hilarious reading, it has a section on Ilias
http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html

P.S.S. Sorry for my angriness, nice people

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

[...] - (off topic, off line, personal)

Mr. Morrice.

I hope you are aware that you have already crossed moral and legal
lines.

-

Note to readers:

I evaluated ruby 5 years before, and I have chosen it now for my
projects, in order to implement the 1.0 line (before I switch one day
to C++ for the 2.0 line).

http://dev.lazaridis.com/case/wiki/RubyAudit
http://dev.lazaridis.com/case/wiki/CoreLiveEval

I hope that the professionals within this group will intervene at some
point, if the "attacks" on my person continue.

And of course I hope that there are still people on this group which
are professional enough to simply reply based on a given requirement,
instead of starting to discuss the requirement.

..

 

[Peter Hickman]

[...] - (off topic, off line, personal)

Mr. Morrice.

I hope you are aware that you have already crossed moral and legal
lines.

Would you care to enumerate the legal lines that have been crossed?

Thought not :0

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

[...] - (off topic, off line, personal)

Mr. Morrice.

I hope you are aware that you have already crossed moral and legal
lines.

Would you care to enumerate the legal lines that have been crossed?

Thought not :0

You may want to research for "Defamation" / "Defamation of Character".

-

So, I like to repeat:

"I hope that the professionals within this group will intervene at
some
point, if the "attacks" on my person continue."

..

 

[Jason Roelofs]

[...] - (off topic, off line, personal) =20
Mr. Morrice. =20
I hope you are aware that you have already crossed moral and legal
lines.

=20
Would you care to enumerate the legal lines that have been crossed?
=20
Thought not :0

=20
You may want to research for "Defamation" / "Defamation of Character".
=20
-
=20
So, I like to repeat:
=20
"I hope that the professionals within this group will intervene at
some
point, if the "attacks" on my person continue."
=20
.
=20

HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!

You've "defamed" yourself enough over the past 10+ YEARS that we don't =
have to do any more of it.

Your brain would be fascinating to dissect to try to figure out how one =
single individual could be so deluded that even after over a decade of =
trolling, being called a troll, being ridiculed for repeated attempts at =
trolling, to not realize that yes, you actually are a troll.

You, sir, have NO character to speak of, other than the one you keep =
getting called; that of a TROLL. Thus there is no defamation of =
character if what we're saying is the truth.

Now go away or we shall taunt you a second time. Your presence here, and =
our responses, are not harming Ruby in the slightest.

Jason

 

[Luis Lavena]

The binaries for JSON
[...] - (complex information)

In the current version of EventMachine
[...] - (complex information)

What you consider "complex" information is needed information.

May someone can tell me:

Who can provide / upload the native gems (windows binaries) of the
"eventmachine"?

Gem authors.

And this has already been covered in newer versions of these
libraries,at least the EventMachine one.

Since thin depends on >= version of EventManchine, you can try
installing the pre-release version:

gem install eventmachine --pre

And then try to install Thin.

And who could provide / upload an automated fall-back to the
"json_pure" if "json" cannot be build locally?

There is no possible fallback in that scenario, you need to code in
your application/library/whatever you're writing this fallback.

Also, if you want this attempt to be solved in each of the libraries
you mention, patches are welcome.

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

The binaries for JSON
[...] - (complex information)

In the current version of EventMachine
[...] - (complex information)

What you consider "complex" information is needed information.

What can I say. Possibly: thank you for providing the information, I
am sure that other readers have reviewed it (or will review it).

May someone can tell me:

Who can provide / upload the native gems (windows binaries) of the
"eventmachine"?

Gem authors. [...]

ok

And who could provide / upload an automated fall-back to the
"json_pure" if "json" cannot be build locally?

There is no possible fallback in that scenario, you need to code in
your application/library/whatever you're writing this fallback.

something like (pseudocode)
try:
require gem "json" version ...
catch:
require gem "json_pure" version ... # fallback to json_pure, thus
gem retrieval does not abort.

Also, if you want this attempt to be solved in each of the libraries
you mention, patches are welcome.

I understand that "patches are welcome", as those are open source
projects.

(You really don't have to mention it every time.)

-

The "thin" / "eventmachine" issue is trivial:

* thin should require only "eventmachine" versions which have native
gems available.

The "json" issue:

The author
* should provide native gems, or
* should provide "json_pure" as a pseudo-native-gem for windows (or
as a general fallback)

The "gem" issue:

The gem team should provide a mechanism for "fallbacks", in order to
ensure that cases like "json" can be resolved immediately without user
interventions (instead of aborting the gem installation sequence which
is triggered by a gem with dependencies).

Some gems are far to important, and they can mess up the user-
experience completely.

-

I have understood the issues now.

Thank you very much for your time!

..

 

[Luis Lavena]

I understand that "patches are welcome", as those are open source
projects.

(You really don't have to mention it every time.)

And you don't have to prepend every single thread as "BARRIER", but
you still does, so I guess is fair, right?

-

The "thin" / "eventmachine" issue is trivial:

 * thin should require only "eventmachine" versions which have native
gems available.

The "json" issue:

The author
 * should provide native gems, or
 * should provide "json_pure" as a pseudo-native-gem for windows (or
as a general fallback)

Awesome, bring this to the gem authors, even better, work with them in
coordinate two projects different release schedules so these situation
gets satisfied.

The "gem" issue:

The gem team should provide a mechanism for "fallbacks", in order to
ensure that cases like "json" can be resolved immediately without user
interventions (instead of aborting the gem installation sequence which
is triggered by a gem with dependencies).

gem installation is aborted because there is no development tools
available in your system to compile the gem.

That is way better than the failure message that was previously
displayed.

Some gems are far to important, and they can mess up the user-
experience completely.

Please see the entire thread I referred before, what you consider
complex information indeed included important information for YOU to
understand the JSON situation.

Is not that nobody have tried, but is still a complex situation.

I have understood the issues now.

Thank you very much for your time!

You're welcome.

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Summarizing:

[...]

The "thin" / "eventmachine" issue is trivial:

 * thin should require only "eventmachine" versions which have native
gems available.

The "json" issue:

The author
 * should provide native gems, or
 * should provide "json_pure" as a pseudo-native-gem for windows (or
as a general fallback)

[...]

The "gem" issue:

The gem team should provide a mechanism for "fallbacks", in order to
ensure that cases like "json" can be resolved immediately without user
interventions (instead of aborting the gem installation sequence which
is triggered by a gem with dependencies).

[...]

..

 

[Luis Lavena]

Summarizing:

That is your summary only quoting your own statements, which is unfair
having considered the time I spent providing your useful information.

Seems you only want to see what you only want to see and consider
these facts or partial appreciations of reality the only valid and
valuable information.

A shame.

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

[...] - (suggesting which information I should prioritize)

Sorry, no further comments.

 

[John W Higgins]

Wow - talk about a Greek God complex.....

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

[...] - (suggesting which information I should prioritize)

Sorry, no further comments.

Wow - talk about a Greek God complex.....

No - talk about a "Limited Time" context.

..

 

[Christopher Dicely]

I understand that "patches are welcome", as those are open source
projects.

Actually, "open source" projects and "patches are welcome" projects
aren't the same thing at all, though the two groups have considerable
overlap. Its quite possible for something to be released under an open
source license but not be particularly welcoming of community patches.

The "thin" / "eventmachine" issue is trivial:

=C2=A0* thin should require only "eventmachine" versions which have nativ= e
gems available.

Which eventmachine versions (if any) have pre-compiled native gems
available will depend on which platform you are using Ruby on, though
AFAIK is mostly an issue on Windows platforms, which are the main
platforms where a Ruby developer (using the main, C-based
implementation) may not have a usable environment to build native
extensions. But I don't think that gem developers should avoid relying
on C-based extensions that don't have pre-built Windows binaries
available just to suit Windows users anymore than they should avoid
relying (or creating) C-based extensions entirely just to suit users
of other Ruby implementations (e.g., JRuby, MagLev, whatever) that
don't support C-based extensions in the first place.

At any rate, the place to address this issue is by filing a bug report
on the thin projects issue tracker.

The "json" issue:

The author
=C2=A0* should provide native gems, or
=C2=A0* should provide "json_pure" as a pseudo-native-gem for windows (or
as a general fallback)

Generally, as above, except for which project's issue tracker this
should be filed with if you want it changed.

The "gem" issue:

The gem team should provide a mechanism for "fallbacks", in order to
ensure that cases like "json" can be resolved immediately without user
interventions (instead of aborting the gem installation sequence which
is triggered by a gem with dependencies).

I actually agree that or-based (rather than only and-based)
dependencies for gems is a really good idea.

Again, the place for this is, first-and-foremost, the RubyGems project.

Some gems are far to important, and they can mess up the user-
experience completely.

Developers ought to be able to read the docs of gems they might depend
on and figure out if they are right for their work (including
consideration of the platform on which they are working and the
availability of build tools; or, where appropriate, considering which
platform is appropriate given what they want to be building.)

Users that are not developers ought to be insulated from this issue by
application developers consideration toward end users, including
things like delivering prepackaged apps that include all dependencies,
for which end there are a variety of tools (e.g., Bundler) available
in the Ruby ecosystem.

 

[David Masover]

[...] - (suggesting which information I should prioritize)
=20
Sorry, no further comments.

=20
Wow - talk about a Greek God complex.....

=20
No - talk about a "Limited Time" context.

Clearly, this isn't an issue for you, as you've been posting pretty much al=
l=20
day today. You've already spent more time than it would take to actually=20
attempt to read and understand what people are telling you.

You've also been pretty fantastically rude to a community which is genuinel=
y=20
trying to help you, from what I can see. You are acting as though you were =
our=20
manager -- and a pretty poor one at that, one who clearly wouldn't listen t=
o=20
his own employees -- rather than as an equal, or dare I say, an adult.

If you want your time here to be productive, I would strongly suggest=20
investing some time reading this:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Some of it is dated, but it's still mostly stayed relevant and generally go=
od=20
advice. In particular, these sections apply to you:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal

Your "requirements" sections in particular come to mind. What, exactly, is =
the=20
problem with installing dev tools? Are you aware that you can build your ow=
n=20
binary gems?

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#urgent

The fact that you flagged your mail as "BARRIER" is already a red flag. The=
=20
fact that you refuse to read responses because you "don't have time" is=20
downright insulting, which brings us to:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#courtesy
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#not_losing

These things have been pointed out to you, yet you've reacted, again, with=
=20
threats of legal action when people describe you as a troll. That's pretty=
=20
discourteous, to say the least.

=46inally, while I don't know you well enough to know whether you're actual=
ly an=20
idiot, if complex things bother you, why are you a programmer? And if you a=
re=20
not a programmer, do you realize that your developer(s) would be a lot more=
=20
productive if they could talk to us directly, without you as an intermediar=
y?