Becoming a C++ guru

Discussion in 'C++' started by Singulus, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. Singulus

    Singulus Guest

    Hello all,
    I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    the point here) become C++ gurus?
    I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    way. So here is my plan (draft):

    - Read and study the book "The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and
    Reference" by Nicolai M. Josuttis. In this case I mean exercising any
    function of every class of the C++ Standard Library, like some sort of
    unit tests, in order to become proficient and knowledgeable what can
    be done with the library, how, the common idioms, etc. This includes
    the small (and some not so small) programs using the specific classes
    and/or part of the library focused to increase understanding.

    - After reading the fore-mentioned book I plan to begin to read the
    book "Exceptional C++: 47 Engineering Puzzles, Programming Problems,
    and Solutions" by Herb Sutter, trying to solve thoroughly all
    questions and problems, let's say one per day or so, to keep up my
    form and constantly improving. After that naturally comes the other
    two book by Sutter, "More Exceptional C++" and "Exceptional C++ Style:
    40 New Engineering Puzzles, Programming Problems, and Solutions".

    - There are numerous books about C++ that comes to mind in order I
    want to improve myself (after reading the fore-mentioned already
    ones), but here I don't know the exact order of reading/exercising the
    material in the books. These books are:

    - "Large-Scale C++ Software Design" by John Lakos

    - "C++ Common Knowledge: Essential Intermediate Programming" by
    Stephen C. Dewhurst

    - "C++ Gotchas: Avoiding Common Problems in Coding and Design" by
    Stephen C. Dewhurst

    - "Imperfect C++: Practical Solutions for Real-Life Programming" by
    Matthew Wilson

    - "C++ Templates: The Complete Guide" by David Vandevoorde

    - "The C++ Programming Language" by Bjarne Stroustrup (I've read this
    one, but not with the my current understanding of the things around
    and about C++, so I think the re-read will be beneficial).

    - "Effective STL: 50 Specific Ways to Improve Your Use of the
    Standard Template Library" by Scott Meyers

    - Re-read the "Effective C++" also by Scott Meyers

    - "Modern C++ Design: Generic Programming and Design Patterns
    Applied" by Andrei Alexandrescu

    - "C++ Template Metaprogramming: Concepts, Tools, and Techniques from
    Boost and Beyond" - David Abrahams and Aleksey Gurtovoy

    - "Beyond the C++ Standard Library: An Introduction to Boost" by
    Björn Karlsson

    - "Inside the C++ Object Model" by Stanley B. Lippman

    - "The Design and Evolution of C++" by Bjarne Stroustrup

    This is vast amount of books, no doubt about that, and I'm thinking
    whether is appropriate and/or possible to get and instill that
    knowledge in myself. It's not impossible, I think I'm determined to do
    that because I will feel better for myself, that's the most important
    thing after all.

    All suggestions for books, reordering the list of the books, practical
    tips, and whatever concerning <Becoming C++ guru> "problem" are
    appreciated.
     
    Singulus, Apr 12, 2007
    #1
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  2. Singulus

    Zeppe Guest

    Singulus wrote:
    > Hello all,
    > I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    > here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    > can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    > the point here) become C++ gurus?
    > I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    > be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    > want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    > way. So here is my plan (draft):


    Just my two cents (I have just one and an half year of experience in
    C++, anyway): I would forget about reading the Josuttis book, and more
    in general any STL book, from the beginning to the end. Thios kind of
    books are more a refernece in my opinion, and you should be and become
    even more proficient with the STL through the experience: there is no
    point in reading about tons of clesses that you are not going to use.
    Of course, there are conceptually relevant things in the STL, like for
    example smart pointers, exceptions, function objects, binders, traits,
    but you should focus on the concept instead of the specific STL
    implementation that is explained and discussed in the STL books.

    So, that what just to say that the most important books should be:

    * stroustrup: if you read this book *carefully* you will end up with a
    deep C++ knowledge (i've marked the word carefully, because the book is
    quite difficult to read, in the sense that there is a lot of
    information, but in my opinion, and not only in my opinion, that
    information is often not given the amount of discussion it should
    deserve, even if the book is 800 pages long or so.

    * Exceptional and more exceptional C++ to address particularly
    error-prone common situations and topics.

    * a good book on template metaprogramming (maybe alexandrescu will do
    the job well).

    The others will follow. Of course, it's obvious to say that a good C++
    programmer should be at first a good software engineer, otherwise you
    will be able to solve very complicated template metaprogramming puzzles
    but without being able to apply them properly to an accurate software
    design, so it's important to focus the attention on the design as well
    (and patterns, and so on).

    And, of course, programming alot and applying what you are learning :p

    This is what I would do.

    Regards,

    Zeppe
     
    Zeppe, Apr 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. Zeppe wrote:
    > Singulus wrote:
    >> [..]So,
    >> how can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion,
    >> this is the point here) become C++ gurus?
    >> [..]

    >
    > Just my two cents (I have just one and an half year of experience in
    > C++, anyway): [.. useful information redacted ..]


    One cannot become a guru by setting and achieving the goal of becoming
    a guru. Live your [professional] life, do your best, and if others
    see you as a source of wisdom, they might [eventually] call you "guru".
    By that time you've most likely transcended the desire of becoming
    a guru. You just share what you know in some form acceptable for those
    who want to learn.

    Just my two cents...

    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
     
    Victor Bazarov, Apr 12, 2007
    #3
  4. Singulus wrote:

    > Hello all,
    > I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    > here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    > can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    > the point here) become C++ gurus?
    > I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    > be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    > want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    > way. So here is my plan (draft):


    [snipped awfully long list of literature]

    Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering the C++
    programming language with all its features may be a good thing to boast with at
    some college party, but it won't get you a job. Real life projects seldom use
    all the fancy stuff C++ is offering for various reasons (one of them is that
    often not all members of a programming team have the same amount of experience
    with C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator). Becoming a
    C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer will be more interested
    in whether you are able to solve some real-life problem with any programming
    language instead of whether you know C++ pretty well. I have seen a lot of
    projects messing with templates and whatnot that were given up because they were
    too bad documented and too confusing for following programmers. If you plan to
    get paid for your efforts, I'd rather advise you to read about software
    management and to widen you horizont by learning other languages. Only if you're
    getting to a point where you spend too much time with some standard task you
    should think about which programming technique would be more suitable to solve
    the problem at hand.

    Regards,
    Stuart
     
    Stuart Redmann, Apr 12, 2007
    #4
  5. Singulus

    Zeppe Guest

    Victor Bazarov wrote:

    > One cannot become a guru by setting and achieving the goal of becoming
    > a guru. Live your [professional] life, do your best, and if others
    > see you as a source of wisdom, they might [eventually] call you "guru".
    > By that time you've most likely transcended the desire of becoming
    > a guru. You just share what you know in some form acceptable for those
    > who want to learn.


    I interpreted the question more as something like: "how can I
    effectively improve my C++ skills" (given that he's a programmer).
    Anyway, I agree with you, that "wanna-be-a-guru" thing it's kinda funny
    (and naive) idea ;)

    Zeppe
     
    Zeppe, Apr 12, 2007
    #5
  6. Zeppe wrote:
    > Victor Bazarov wrote:
    >
    >> One cannot become a guru by setting and achieving the goal of
    >> becoming a guru. Live your [professional] life, do your best, and
    >> if others see you as a source of wisdom, they might [eventually]
    >> call you "guru". By that time you've most likely transcended the
    >> desire of becoming
    >> a guru. You just share what you know in some form acceptable for
    >> those who want to learn.

    >
    > I interpreted the question more as something like: "how can I
    > effectively improve my C++ skills" (given that he's a programmer).


    And you answered it well. I just added my two cents /in case/ the
    OP did want to actually become a guru.

    > Anyway, I agree with you, that "wanna-be-a-guru" thing it's kinda
    > funny (and naive) idea ;)


    I think that we all at some point want to be somebody or something
    we admire or respect. Through that we develop the desire to study
    the subject, the field, the people around us, in order to improve
    ourselves. And through those studies we outgrow the desire to be
    anything in particular and become somebody/something different from
    anybody/anything else. That's when one may be recognized as "guru"
    if what one has is useful not just for oneself, but for others as
    well...

    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
     
    Victor Bazarov, Apr 12, 2007
    #6
  7. Stuart Redmann wrote:
    > Singulus wrote:
    >
    >> Hello all,
    >> I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    >> here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So,
    >> how can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion,
    >> this is the point here) become C++ gurus?
    >> I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    >> be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    >> want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    >> way. So here is my plan (draft):

    >
    > [snipped awfully long list of literature]
    >
    > Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering
    > the C++ programming language with all its features may be a good
    > thing to boast with at some college party, but it won't get you a
    > job. Real life projects seldom use all the fancy stuff C++ is
    > offering for various reasons (one of them is that often not all
    > members of a programming team have the same amount of experience with
    > C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator).
    > Becoming a C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer
    > will be more interested in whether you are able to solve some
    > real-life problem with any programming language instead of whether
    > you know C++ pretty well. I have seen a lot of projects messing with
    > templates and whatnot that were given up because they were too bad
    > documented and too confusing for following programmers. If you plan
    > to get paid for your efforts, I'd rather advise you to read about
    > software management and to widen you horizont by learning other
    > languages. Only if you're getting to a point where you spend too much
    > time with some standard task you should think about which programming
    > technique would be more suitable to solve the problem at hand.


    Oversimplification or substitution of goals doesn't necessarily serve
    a good purpose. Becoming a guru in something is never about material
    compensation. "Guruness" is not a set of skills or ability to work
    long hours or a way to get ahead in life (whatever that means). It
    is a state of mind, a way of life. Being a guru and earning a decent
    living are orthogonal. They are not the same, but neither they are
    opposites.

    Nobody becomes a guru as a task. Nobody works their whole life in
    pursuit of a "lifetime achievement award". Such award, prize, simply
    finds one at some point, as a recognition of one's peers, and *not*
    as a promised pay-off. Having such award as a goal will most likely
    mean a huge disappontment later in life...

    V
    --
    Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
    I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask
     
    Victor Bazarov, Apr 12, 2007
    #7
  8. Singulus

    Greg Comeau Guest

    In article <>,
    Singulus <> wrote:
    >...How can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion,
    >this is the point here) become C++ gurus?
    >...I've come to the point where I
    >want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    >way. So here is my plan (draft):
    >
    > - Read and study the book "The C++ Standard Library: A Tutorial and
    >Reference" by Nicolai M. Josuttis. In this case I mean exercising any
    >function of every class of the C++ Standard Library, like some sort of
    >unit tests, in order to become proficient and knowledgeable what can
    >be done with the library, how, the common idioms, etc. This includes
    >the small (and some not so small) programs using the specific classes
    >and/or part of the library focused to increase understanding.
    >
    >... "Exceptional C++: 47 Engineering Puzzles, Programming Problems,
    >and Solutions" by Herb Sutter, trying to solve thoroughly all
    >questions and problems, let's say one per day or so, to keep up my
    >form and constantly improving. After that naturally comes the other
    >two book by Sutter, "More Exceptional C++" and "Exceptional C++ Style:
    >40 New Engineering Puzzles, Programming Problems, and Solutions".
    >
    > - There are numerous books about C++ that comes to mind in order I
    >want to improve myself ....
    >
    >This is vast amount of books, no doubt about that, and I'm thinking
    >whether is appropriate and/or possible to get and instill that
    >knowledge in myself. It's not impossible, I think I'm determined to do
    >that because I will feel better for myself, that's the most important
    >thing after all.
    >...


    Re your raw question, I would probably bubble up The C++ Programming
    Language and C++ Templates. But then, it depends upon what your
    goals are.

    It's unclear what you're trying to accomplish, so this may be
    somewhat in left field, but I'll step back and offer it anyway
    even if it does nto apply to you. And this is to say that
    "Becoming a guru" is rather fuzzy. And IMO is probably not something
    to make a goal in and of itself. Personally, I wouldn't.

    Also, you are setting goals which are too C++ centric. I think you
    are also probably getting into a forest vs trees situation.

    This is not to say you should not read all those books, and that
    you should not focus on C++, but there is more out there than
    just that, despite it being a handful already.

    Circa 2001, I was the PTA President of my daughter's school.
    On one occasion the principal and I went to here some talks
    about something. One speaker was a previous NY City Teacher of the
    Year. He went on and one about how this and that were important.
    But then mid way throough his talk, he completely took a turn
    and began discussing how everything he just said didn't matter
    if the kids didn't know how to use the stuff they were learning,
    didn't have time for play, didn't learn it as play, couldn't solve
    real problems, were taught as zombies, etc. He was exactly right.

    So balance it out. It can be an ambiguous thing, but it's also
    more than that. And remember to enjoy yourself. We do need
    to structure thing, but also, don't hesitate to let nature
    take its course. Myself, I've learned as much unexpectedly
    as I've planned for. Let all the possibilities happen.
    And stay broadminded even on specific topics.
    --
    Greg Comeau / 4.3.9 with C++0xisms now in beta!
    Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
    World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
    Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
     
    Greg Comeau, Apr 12, 2007
    #8
  9. On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:32:57 +0200, Stuart Redmann wrote:
    >Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering the C++
    >programming language with all its features may be a good thing to boast with at
    >some college party, but it won't get you a job. Real life projects seldom use
    >all the fancy stuff C++ is offering for various reasons (one of them is that
    >often not all members of a programming team have the same amount of experience
    >with C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator). Becoming a
    >C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer will be more interested
    >in whether you are able to solve some real-life problem with any programming
    >language instead of whether you know C++ pretty well. I have seen a lot of
    >projects messing with templates and whatnot that were given up because they were
    >too bad documented and too confusing for following programmers. If you plan to
    >get paid for your efforts, I'd rather advise you to read about software
    >management and to widen you horizont by learning other languages. Only if you're
    >getting to a point where you spend too much time with some standard task you
    >should think about which programming technique would be more suitable to solve
    >the problem at hand.


    To the point!


    --
    Roland Pibinger
    "The best software is simple, elegant, and full of drama" - Grady Booch
     
    Roland Pibinger, Apr 12, 2007
    #9
  10. Singulus

    Andre Kostur Guest

    Stuart Redmann <> wrote in
    news:evlfmh$7ph$:

    > Singulus wrote:
    >
    >> Hello all,
    >> I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    >> here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So,
    >> how can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion,
    >> this is the point here) become C++ gurus?
    >> I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    >> be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    >> want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    >> way. So here is my plan (draft):

    >
    > [snipped awfully long list of literature]
    >
    > Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering
    > the C++ programming language with all its features may be a good thing
    > to boast with at some college party, but it won't get you a job. Real
    > life projects seldom use all the fancy stuff C++ is offering for
    > various reasons (one of them is that often not all members of a
    > programming team have the same amount of experience with C++, so
    > you'll have to settle for the least common denominator). Becoming a


    No... Where I am, I'm the C++ Guru. I develop using newer/more advanced
    techniques, and then use that development as a showcase of how the
    technique makes things easier to maintain/easier to develop/etc. Then the
    less experienced see this benefit and become encouraged to learn the new
    technique so they can then use it in their own tasks. (And in one case,
    someone took my development in a completely different direction than I had
    intended it to, and the knowledge transfer went the other direction. My
    phrase was "That's not supposed to be used like that! But I like it. I'm
    going to have to incorporate that into my own work....").
     
    Andre Kostur, Apr 12, 2007
    #10
  11. Singulus

    Greg Comeau Guest

    In article <evle0f$7b3$>,
    Victor Bazarov <> wrote:
    >Stuart Redmann wrote:
    >> Singulus wrote:
    >>> I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    >>> here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So,
    >>> how can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion,
    >>> this is the point here) become C++ gurus?
    >>> I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    >>> be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    >>> want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    >>> way. So here is my plan (draft):

    >>
    >> [snipped awfully long list of literature]
    >>
    >> Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering
    >> the C++ programming language with all its features may be a good
    >> thing to boast with at some college party, but it won't get you a
    >> job. Real life projects seldom use all the fancy stuff C++ is
    >> offering for various reasons (one of them is that often not all
    >> members of a programming team have the same amount of experience with
    >> C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator).
    >> Becoming a C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer
    >> will be more interested in whether you are able to solve some
    >> real-life problem with any programming language instead of whether
    >> you know C++ pretty well. I have seen a lot of projects messing with
    >> templates and whatnot that were given up because they were too bad
    >> documented and too confusing for following programmers. If you plan
    >> to get paid for your efforts, I'd rather advise you to read about
    >> software management and to widen you horizont by learning other
    >> languages. Only if you're getting to a point where you spend too much
    >> time with some standard task you should think about which programming
    >> technique would be more suitable to solve the problem at hand.

    >
    >Oversimplification or substitution of goals doesn't necessarily serve
    >a good purpose. Becoming a guru in something is never about material
    >compensation. "Guruness" is not a set of skills or ability to work
    >long hours or a way to get ahead in life (whatever that means). It
    >is a state of mind, a way of life. Being a guru and earning a decent
    >living are orthogonal. They are not the same, but neither they are
    >opposites.
    >
    >Nobody becomes a guru as a task. Nobody works their whole life in
    >pursuit of a "lifetime achievement award". Such award, prize, simply
    >finds one at some point, as a recognition of one's peers, and *not*
    >as a promised pay-off. Having such award as a goal will most likely
    >mean a huge disappontment later in life...


    And usually sooner. And then again later.
    --
    Greg Comeau / 4.3.9 with C++0xisms now in beta!
    Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
    World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
    Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
     
    Greg Comeau, Apr 12, 2007
    #11
  12. Singulus wrote:
    > Hello all,
    > I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    > here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    > can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    > the point here) become C++ gurus?
    > I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    > be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    > want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    > way. So here is my plan (draft):

    [snip]

    My suggestion: Create a project for yourself and implement it.

    Also spend time on this newsgroup answering questions. If your
    answer is incorrect, other more knowlegeable people will
    correct you.

    These are some of the methods that I became a "guru" in the language.
    I am not a full guru, as there are people in this newsgroup with
    more knowledge than I. ;-)

    Once you know the language well, you will need to know techniques
    of programming, such as design patterns, containers, functors,
    and other paradigms.

    --
    Thomas Matthews

    C++ newsgroup welcome message:
    http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
    C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c -faq-lite
    C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
    alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq:
    http://www.comeaucomputing.com/learn/faq/
    Other sites:
    http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book
    http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library
     
    Thomas Matthews, Apr 13, 2007
    #12
  13. Singulus

    James Kanze Guest

    On Apr 12, 3:32 pm, Stuart Redmann <> wrote:
    > Singulus wrote:
    > > I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    > > here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    > > can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    > > the point here) become C++ gurus?
    > > I have 5 years of working experience with C/C++, I know that this can
    > > be very ambiguous thing, but anyway...I've come to the point where I
    > > want to structure and organize my further learning in C/C++ in a new
    > > way. So here is my plan (draft):


    > [snipped awfully long list of literature]


    > Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru?
    > Mastering the C++ programming language with all its features
    > may be a good thing to boast with at some college party, but
    > it won't get you a job.


    It depends. C++ has a reputation for having a lot of traps, and
    many companies do like to have a C++ "guru" on hand.

    > Real life projects seldom use all the fancy stuff C++ is
    > offering for various reasons (one of them is that often not
    > all members of a programming team have the same amount of
    > experience with C++, so you'll have to settle for the least
    > common denominator).


    Real life projects are implemented by teams, and it's frequent
    for the company to try and have one "guru" on the team, just in
    case, and to consult about things like coding guidelines, or the
    likelyhood that something they want to try will work with future
    compilers. Also, having a guru present in code review, to
    suggest better ways of using the language, tends to raise
    everyone's level.

    > Becoming a C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any
    > employer will be more interested in whether you are able to
    > solve some real-life problem with any programming language
    > instead of whether you know C++ pretty well.


    Just being a guru isn't enough. You have to know how to program
    as well. On the other hand, no one person can know everything.
    Our banking experts come to me for help with C++, Unix or
    software engineering and design; I go to them if I have problems
    with what the program should actually do (i.e. what makes sense
    from the domain point of view).

    > I have seen a lot of projects messing with templates and
    > whatnot that were given up because they were too bad
    > documented and too confusing for following programmers.


    Being a guru entails knowing when to use what feature. A
    template that is instantiated just once is a programming error.
    Confusing and undocumented code is an even worse programming
    error. Someone who makes those errors is NOT a guru, just a
    show-off who knows how to spout the latest buzzwords.

    --
    James Kanze (GABI Software) email:
    Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
    Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
    9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, +33 (0)1 30 23 00 34
     
    James Kanze, Apr 13, 2007
    #13
  14. Singulus

    Guest

    On Apr 12, 4:00 am, "Singulus" <> wrote:
    > Hello all,
    > I've searched for similar threads, I've found some bit of useful info
    > here and there, but nevertheless I want to post my questions...So, how
    > can I (we, in fact the forum can benefit from the discussion, this is
    > the point here) become C++ gurus?


    Come to my house at 6:00 a.m. You'll begin with painting my fence,
    and then move on to the deck, washing and waxing all my cars, etc.

    Wait, that's how you learn Karate.
     
    , Apr 13, 2007
    #14
  15. Singulus

    Guest

    On Apr 12, 9:32 am, Stuart Redmann <> wrote:

    >
    > Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering the C++
    > programming language with all its features may be a good thing to boast with at
    > some college party, but it won't get you a job. Real life projects seldom use
    > all the fancy stuff C++ is offering for various reasons (one of them is that
    > often not all members of a programming team have the same amount of experience
    > with C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator). Becoming a
    > C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer will be more interested
    > in whether you are able to solve some real-life problem with any programming
    > language


    Moreso frameworks/libraries/technologies. I encourage the OP to check
    out Dice.com job listings. Job requirements don't enumerate language
    features, but rather experience in MFC, DCOM, TCP/IP, multi-threaded
    programming, XML, IPC, etc. Ditto with Java, where they want XML,
    Struts, Hibernate, Spring, etc.
     
    , Apr 13, 2007
    #15
  16. Singulus

    marius lazer Guest

    "Guru"-ness is relative. Become the best in your team (problem solving
    design and language techniques whatever the language), share your
    knowledge, help your teammates grow and they'll call you "guru".

    My 2 cents,
    Marius
     
    marius lazer, Apr 14, 2007
    #16
  17. On Apr 13, 8:45 am, wrote:
    > On Apr 12, 9:32 am, Stuart Redmann <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Just out of interest: Why do you want to become a C++ guru? Mastering the C++
    > > programming language with all its features may be a good thing to boast with at
    > > some college party, but it won't get you a job. Real life projects seldom use
    > > all the fancy stuff C++ is offering for various reasons (one of them is that
    > > often not all members of a programming team have the same amount of experience
    > > with C++, so you'll have to settle for the least common denominator). Becoming a
    > > C++ guru seems like a futile task to me as any employer will be more interested
    > > in whether you are able to solve some real-life problem with any programming
    > > language

    >
    > Moreso frameworks/libraries/technologies. I encourage the OP to check
    > out Dice.com job listings. Job requirements don't enumerate language
    > features, but rather experience in MFC, DCOM, TCP/IP, multi-threaded
    > programming, XML, IPC, etc. Ditto with Java, where they want XML,
    > Struts, Hibernate, Spring, etc.


    argh
     
    Diego Martins, Apr 18, 2007
    #17
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