BEST PERL BOOK FOR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION UNIX

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by KDOSS_PERL, Dec 23, 2006.

  1. KDOSS_PERL

    KDOSS_PERL Guest

    Greetings to PERL Programmers:

    I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.

    Regards,
    -Kennedy
    KDOSS_PERL, Dec 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. KDOSS_PERL

    John Bokma Guest

    "KDOSS_PERL" <> wrote:

    > Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    >
    > I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    > the past 15 years.


    Must have been a case insensitive Unix system then...

    --
    John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

    Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
    John Bokma, Dec 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. KDOSS_PERL

    Ric Guest

    KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
    > Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    >
    > I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    > the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    > with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    > was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    > of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.


    You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
    Learning Perl O'Reilly

    Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large
    scale applications with perl, so it should be fairly easy for you to get
    into it.


    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Regards,
    > -Kennedy
    >
    Ric, Dec 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Ric wrote:
    > KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
    > > Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    > >
    > > I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    > > the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    > > with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    > > was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    > > of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.

    >
    > You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
    > Learning Perl O'Reilly
    >
    > Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large
    > scale applications with perl, so it should be fairly easy for you to get
    > into it.
    >
    >


    Yes, basic Perl s fairly easy. However, the funky Perl is about as
    enjoyable as wearing pantyhose to work when it's like 90 degrees
    outside. Seriously, let's try to break this down....

    1)Objects in Perl. This can sort of blow monkey's butt if you've never
    really done OOP or dealt with pointers in C.

    2)regular expressions. I liken this to a bad hangover.

    3)Pipes in Perl. This only really starts to make sense if you've
    written pipes on Linux, BSD, or any other kind of half baked,
    delinquent descent of the UNIX Operating system.

    4)Back to Objects in Perl. Somewhere in the 10,000 pages of internal
    Perl documents, there is a section on how Perl has no kind of privacy
    thingy. It goes on to say that one way to enforce privacy in Objects is
    to use closures. I'm sure closures make sense if you are computer
    science major.

    5)Fork() and pseudo tty's. Just the thought alone inspires fear and
    awe.

    And of course, I've dealt with this all for writing small/dirty scripts
    on my OS. For anything else, there is either C, Java (ughhh...), or
    FORTRAN (leet).

    Chad
    grocery_stocker, Dec 23, 2006
    #4
  5. >>>>> "grocery" == grocery stocker <> writes:

    grocery> Yes, basic Perl s fairly easy. However, the funky Perl is about as
    grocery> enjoyable as wearing pantyhose to work when it's like 90 degrees
    grocery> outside. Seriously, let's try to break this down....

    A guy named "Chad" knows about this. Hmm. :)

    grocery> 1)Objects in Perl. This can sort of blow monkey's butt if you've
    grocery> never really done OOP or dealt with pointers in C.

    Yeah, Objects *require* references, and the average docs on references and
    objects suggest that you know objects and pointers from other languages.

    grocery> 2)regular expressions. I liken this to a bad hangover.

    The important thing to keep in mind is that they're an entirely separate part
    of the language, unlike anything else in Perl, but luckily like lots of other
    tools.

    grocery> 3)Pipes in Perl. This only really starts to make sense if you've
    grocery> written pipes on Linux, BSD, or any other kind of half baked,
    grocery> delinquent descent of the UNIX Operating system.

    Perl has no native "pipes". Not sure what you're saying here.

    grocery> 4)Back to Objects in Perl. Somewhere in the 10,000 pages of internal
    grocery> Perl documents, there is a section on how Perl has no kind of privacy
    grocery> thingy. It goes on to say that one way to enforce privacy in Objects
    grocery> is to use closures. I'm sure closures make sense if you are computer
    grocery> science major.

    Or use one of the many "Inside Out Objects" modules on the CPAN, where most of
    the magic is hidden for you.

    grocery> 5)Fork() and pseudo tty's. Just the thought alone inspires fear and
    grocery> awe.

    Fork is standard Unix Fork. Pseudo TTYs ditto. Perl doesn't have anything
    weird to contribute here.

    print "Just another Perl hacker,"; # the original (# 0 ?)

    --
    Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
    <> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
    Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
    See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
    Randal L. Schwartz, Dec 24, 2006
    #5
  6. KDOSS_PERL <> wrote:

    > Subject: BEST PERL BOOK FOR SYSTEM ADMINISTRATION UNIX



    The one that suggests that you do not SHOUT AT PEOPLE.


    > I would like to use Perl scripts and
    > was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    > of back ground.



    Any of the tutorials mentioned in the Perl FAQ.

    perldoc -q book

    ...

    Tutorials
    Beginning Perl
    by James Lee
    ISBN 1â€59059â€391â€X [2nd edition August 2004]
    http://apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=344

    Elements of Programming with Perl
    by Andrew L. Johnson
    ISBN 1â€884777â€80â€5 [1st edition October 1999]
    http://www.manning.com/Johnson/

    Learning Perl
    by Randal L. Schwartz, Tom Phoenix, and brian d foy
    ISBN 0â€596â€10105â€8 [4th edition July 2005]
    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/learnperl4/

    Learning Perl Objects, References, and Modules
    by Randal L. Schwartz, with Tom Phoenix (foreword by Damian Conway)
    ISBN 0â€596â€00478â€8 [1st edition June 2003]
    http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lrnperlorm/


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Tad McClellan, Dec 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Ric <> wrote:
    > KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
    >> Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    >>
    >> I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    >> the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    >> with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    >> was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    >> of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.

    >
    > You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
    > Learning Perl O'Reilly



    One of those books is horrid, one of them is good...


    > Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large

    ^^^
    > scale applications with perl,



    Of course he doesn't, because he doesn't even know _any_ Perl yet!

    If your "you" was the general "you", then that's a lot of hooey.

    I've written several Perl projects that were sophisticated large
    scale applications (5-10k lines of code each).


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Tad McClellan, Dec 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
    > >>>>> "grocery" == grocery stocker <> writes:

    >
    > grocery> Yes, basic Perl s fairly easy. However, the funky Perl is about as
    > grocery> enjoyable as wearing pantyhose to work when it's like 90 degrees
    > grocery> outside. Seriously, let's try to break this down....
    >
    > A guy named "Chad" knows about this. Hmm. :)
    >


    Calm down.

    > grocery> 1)Objects in Perl. This can sort of blow monkey's butt if you've
    > grocery> never really done OOP or dealt with pointers in C.
    >
    > Yeah, Objects *require* references, and the average docs on references and
    > objects suggest that you know objects and pointers from other languages.
    >
    > grocery> 2)regular expressions. I liken this to a bad hangover.
    >
    > The important thing to keep in mind is that they're an entirely separate part
    > of the language, unlike anything else in Perl, but luckily like lots of other
    > tools.
    >
    > grocery> 3)Pipes in Perl. This only really starts to make sense if you've
    > grocery> written pipes on Linux, BSD, or any other kind of half baked,
    > grocery> delinquent descent of the UNIX Operating system.
    >
    > Perl has no native "pipes". Not sure what you're saying here.
    >


    I was thinking something like the following. Please note the script had
    been slightly modified to protect th person from who I duped the core
    code from.

    #!/usr/bin/perl
    use strict;
    use warnings;

    my @months = ("sep", "oct", "nov");
    my $value = scalar (@months);
    my $count = 0;

    my $test = "oct";
    my $bbs = "/usr/local/bin/bbs $test";

    open my $out, '|-', $bbs
    or die "cannot open pipe to bbsread: $!";


    print $out "find gay | wc -l \n";

    close $out
    or die "cannot close pipe to bbsread: $!";


    Let's pretend the bbs program runs on a Windows machine. Wouldn't
    Windows mimic the Unix pipe() functions in the above script? If that is
    the case, then wouldn't the behavior of the pipe() functions be similar
    the behavior of the Unix pipe() functions?

    > grocery> 4)Back to Objects in Perl. Somewhere in the 10,000 pages of internal
    > grocery> Perl documents, there is a section on how Perl has no kind of privacy
    > grocery> thingy. It goes on to say that one way to enforce privacy in Objects
    > grocery> is to use closures. I'm sure closures make sense if you are computer
    > grocery> science major.
    >
    > Or use one of the many "Inside Out Objects" modules on the CPAN, where most of
    > the magic is hidden for you.
    >
    > grocery> 5)Fork() and pseudo tty's. Just the thought alone inspires fear and
    > grocery> awe.
    >
    > Fork is standard Unix Fork. Pseudo TTYs ditto. Perl doesn't have anything
    > weird to contribute here.
    >


    Chad
    grocery_stocker, Dec 24, 2006
    #8
  9. > I was thinking something like the following. Please note the script had
    > been slightly modified to protect th person from who I duped the core
    > code from.


    Going slightly off topic. I really need to learn to proof read before I
    post.
    grocery_stocker, Dec 24, 2006
    #9
  10. KDOSS_PERL

    Peter Scott Guest

    On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 13:19:44 -0800, KDOSS_PERL wrote:
    > I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    > the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    > with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    > was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    > of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.


    There is a new book that I reviewed in the latest _Perl Review_ that is
    explicitly targeted at your niche. I suggest you look at it:
    http://www.amazon.com/Minimal-Perl-UNIX-Linux-People/dp/1932394508

    --
    Peter Scott
    http://www.perlmedic.com/
    http://www.perldebugged.com/
    Peter Scott, Dec 24, 2006
    #10
  11. KDOSS_PERL

    Ric Guest

    Tad McClellan schrieb:
    > Ric <> wrote:
    >> KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
    >>> Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    >>>
    >>> I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    >>> the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    >>> with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    >>> was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    >>> of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.

    >> You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
    >> Learning Perl O'Reilly

    >
    >
    > One of those books is horrid, one of them is good...
    >
    >
    >> Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large

    > ^^^
    >> scale applications with perl,

    >
    >
    > Of course he doesn't, because he doesn't even know _any_ Perl yet!
    >
    > If your "you" was the general "you", then that's a lot of hooey.


    Sure perl programmers tend to think that they know about software
    engineering:)

    >
    > I've written several Perl projects that were sophisticated large
    > scale applications (5-10k lines of code each).



    5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?

    Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
    around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
    about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.




    >
    >
    Ric, Dec 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Ric wrote:
    >
    > 5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?
    >
    > Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
    > around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
    > about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.
    >

    People still measure application size in terms of lines of code?

    Mark
    Mark Clements, Dec 24, 2006
    #12
  13. KDOSS_PERL

    Ric Guest

    l v schrieb:
    > Ric wrote:
    >> Tad McClellan schrieb:
    >>> Ric <> wrote:
    >>>> KDOSS_PERL schrieb:
    >>>>> Greetings to PERL Programmers:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I've been an Unix System Administrator writing crude shell scripts for
    >>>>> the past 15 years. I never got into writing sophisticated scripting
    >>>>> with multiple looks for my jobs. I would like to use Perl scripts and
    >>>>> was wondering if there are any recommendations for a guy with my kind
    >>>>> of back ground. Any input from your guys would be most appreciated.
    >>>> You probably want to use some beginners book, Perl in 21 days or
    >>>> Learning Perl O'Reilly
    >>>
    >>> One of those books is horrid, one of them is good...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Perl is fairly easy and usually you don't program sophisticated large
    >>> ^^^
    >>>> scale applications with perl,
    >>>
    >>> Of course he doesn't, because he doesn't even know _any_ Perl yet!
    >>>
    >>> If your "you" was the general "you", then that's a lot of hooey.

    >>
    >> Sure perl programmers tend to think that they know about software
    >> engineering:)
    >>
    >>> I've written several Perl projects that were sophisticated large
    >>> scale applications (5-10k lines of code each).

    >>
    >>
    >> 5-10k lines, you call that a large scale app?
    >>
    >> Dude I don't know where you work at, but large scale apps start at
    >> around 100k lines of code. I have written several apps in C++ that have
    >> about 50k loc and I wouldn't consider them as large scale apps.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>

    >
    > Oh, lets not start that war! I once had 2 COBOL programs that were 60K
    > lines *each* just to price invoices. Perhaps what is done in 50k of C++
    > can be done in 10k of Perl code????? :)
    >

    Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
    don't even try.
    Ric, Dec 24, 2006
    #13
  14. KDOSS_PERL

    John Bokma Guest

    Ric <> wrote:

    > Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
    > don't even try.


    Ah, the pissing contest! Remember Ric, you are not the language.

    Not understanding that a language like Perl has a place makes your
    software engineering skills doubtful, to say the least.

    --
    John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

    Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
    John Bokma, Dec 24, 2006
    #14
  15. Ric wrote:
    > Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,


    Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no difference
    between what you can do in each.

    > so don't even try.


    If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
    actually welcome those limitations.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Dec 24, 2006
    #15
  16. KDOSS_PERL

    Ric Guest

    John Bokma schrieb:
    > Ric <> wrote:
    >
    >> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl, so
    >> don't even try.

    >
    > Ah, the pissing contest! Remember Ric, you are not the language.
    >
    > Not understanding that a language like Perl has a place makes your
    > software engineering skills doubtful, to say the least.
    >


    If you comment on someones thread then first read the whole discussion,
    you obviously didn't read it.

    I started with the note, that perl is not designed to be used for large
    scale apps. Some folks didn't agree, that's their problem.

    Show me a large scale app like apache, mysql, word etc. that is written
    in perl and I will shut up:)
    Ric, Dec 24, 2006
    #16
  17. KDOSS_PERL

    Ric Guest

    Jürgen Exner schrieb:
    > Ric wrote:
    >> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,

    >
    > Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no difference
    > between what you can do in each.


    If we talk about functional requirements, then you may be right, but
    what about non funtional requirements.
    For example a high speed 3d engine or a maintainable gui application
    like openoffice

    If you can do everything in perl, why does everyone design and write
    large apps in C++, C# Java

    >
    >> so don't even try.

    >
    > If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
    > actually welcome those limitations.


    Yeah right!

    I do lots of perl programming and I have done lots of writing in C/C++
    and C#, buts that's the silliest argument I've heard so far.

    >
    > jue
    >
    >
    Ric, Dec 24, 2006
    #17
  18. Ric wrote:
    > Jürgen Exner schrieb:
    >> Ric wrote:
    >>> Perhaps some things are done in C++ you can't do at all in Perl,

    >>
    >> Hardly. Both languages are Turing complete, therefore there is no
    >> difference between what you can do in each.

    >
    > If you can do everything in perl, why does everyone design and write
    > large apps in C++, C# Java


    I don't know everyone, therefore I don't know if this claim is true.
    However many people probably write certain applications in other languages
    because they don't know about Perl, because of personal preference, because
    of corporate mandates, or even because that other language is better suited
    for that application.

    Non of this percludes that the application could not be written in Perl if
    you would want to.

    >> If Perl makes it more difficult to shoot yourself in the foot then I
    >> actually welcome those limitations.

    >
    > Yeah right!
    >
    > I do lots of perl programming and I have done lots of writing in C/C++
    > and C#, buts that's the silliest argument I've heard so far.


    If you like convoluted pointer arithmetic, doing garbage collection
    manually, and not having any operators on any compound data types, then that
    is certainly your choice. I for my part prefer programming languages that
    support my way of thinking, not hinder it with technical nonsense.

    jue
    Jürgen Exner, Dec 24, 2006
    #18
  19. KDOSS_PERL

    Puckdropper Guest

    Mark Clements <> wrote in news:458e7852
    $0$27366$:


    > People still measure application size in terms of lines of code?
    >
    > Mark


    Sure, what other metric is common to programs that's easily measured?

    It's bad, but it's the best they've got. I had probably 1000 LOC in a
    recent class project and probably wrote only 100 myself. Everything else
    was done by a GUI builder or by the UML tool I used. (It was Java, not
    Perl, but I constantly wished it was Perl. Does that count as on topic
    here? ;-))

    Puckdropper
    --
    Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

    To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
    Puckdropper, Dec 24, 2006
    #19
  20. KDOSS_PERL

    John Bokma Guest

    Ric <> wrote:

    > Show me a large scale app like apache, mysql, word etc. that is written
    > in perl and I will shut up:)


    Slashdot. But I am sure that you're going to tell "us" that Slashdot is
    not an application and more yada yada. Like I already said, pissing
    contest.

    --
    John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

    Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
    John Bokma, Dec 25, 2006
    #20
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