Best Practice for page coding

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Justin.Voelker, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Hello Everyone:

    I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    design. My newest website, www.Base2WebDesign.com has a simple
    layout. The reason for my posting here is that when you visit a page
    on the site for the first time, the whole site flashes to a blank
    white background then loads the page. When returning to that page
    later, it loads just fine. As you can see from the site, the black/
    blue top bar, the links on the side, and the gray background do not
    ever change. What would be the best practice for loading a page such
    as this (since almost all of my development involves this same idea of
    a very static look to a page, but different content in the "main
    body." I currently use php and use includes to include the top and
    bottoms of the pages since they are the same. Should not be doing
    this? Is there an easier way to have those pieces of the page stay
    exactly where they are without having to reload/request them from the
    server each time? Thank you so much for your help!!!
    Justin.Voelker, Apr 2, 2007
    #1
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  2. Justin.Voelker

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    > Hello Everyone:
    >
    > I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > design. My newest website, www.Base2WebDesign.com has a simple
    > layout. The reason for my posting here is that when you visit a page
    > on the site for the first time, the whole site flashes to a blank
    > white background then loads the page.



    If that is the reason, there is nothing to worry about. In fact,
    it does not do this on any of my browsers on my broadband
    connection.


    > What would be the best practice for loading a page such
    > as this (since almost all of my development involves this same idea of
    > a very static look to a page, but different content in the "main
    > body." I currently use php and use includes to include the top and
    > bottoms of the pages since they are the same. Should not be doing
    > this? Is there an easier way to have those pieces of the page stay
    > exactly where they are without having to reload/request them from the
    > server each time?


    In respect to the php, this seems fine and is as good a practice
    if not better, all things considered, than any other.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Apr 2, 2007
    #2
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  3. Justin.Voelker

    andrew Guest

    On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    > Hello Everyone:
    >
    > I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > design. My newest website, www.Base2WebDesign.com has a simple
    > layout.


    [...]

    Hello Justin,

    A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    declaration in your source code:

    > <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > unless otherwise stated. -->


    and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    adviseability of placing such declarations.

    Andrew


    --
    Andrew's Corner
    http://people.aapt.net.au/~adjlstrong/
    andrew, Apr 3, 2007
    #3
  4. Justin.Voelker

    al jones Guest

    On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:02:30 +1000, andrew wrote:

    > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hello Everyone:
    >>
    >> I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    >> practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    >> design. My newest website, www.Base2WebDesign.com has a simple
    >> layout.

    >
    > [...]
    >
    > Hello Justin,
    >
    > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > declaration in your source code:
    >
    >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    >> unless otherwise stated. -->

    >
    > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > adviseability of placing such declarations.
    >
    > Andrew


    Off the cuff here, since it's not displayed and not in the proper format
    per copyright specs -enforcibility would probably be zilch!

    I was more amused by the fixed width which 'flutters' back and forth as one
    page is long enough to force a vertical scroll bar while the others aren't
    (on my display of course...)

    --
    //al
    al jones, Apr 3, 2007
    #4
  5. On Apr 2, 8:02 pm, andrew <> wrote:
    > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    >
    > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:
    > > Hello Everyone:

    >
    > > I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > > practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > > design. My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.comhas a simple
    > > layout.

    >
    > [...]
    >
    > Hello Justin,
    >
    > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > declaration in your source code:
    >
    > > <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > > property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > > distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > > without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > > unless otherwise stated. -->

    >
    > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > adviseability of placing such declarations.
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    > --
    > Andrew's Cornerhttp://people.aapt.net.au/~adjlstrong/


    The copyright piece was actually left in there from another website
    that I developed for a customer. Will it stand up in court? No.
    Will an issue ever get that far? Probably not. It was just a small
    piece of mind sort of thing so they would hopefully look at it and say
    "ok, I can't give away this code."
    Justin Voelker, Apr 3, 2007
    #5
  6. On Apr 2, 9:14 pm, al jones <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:02:30 +1000, andrew wrote:
    > > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    > > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    >
    > >> Hello Everyone:

    >
    > >> I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > >> practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > >> design. My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.comhas a simple
    > >> layout.

    >
    > > [...]

    >
    > > Hello Justin,

    >
    > > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > > declaration in your source code:

    >
    > >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > >> unless otherwise stated. -->

    >
    > > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > > adviseability of placing such declarations.

    >
    > > Andrew

    >
    > Off the cuff here, since it's not displayed and not in the proper format
    > per copyright specs -enforcibility would probably be zilch!
    >
    > I was more amused by the fixed width which 'flutters' back and forth as one
    > page is long enough to force a vertical scroll bar while the others aren't
    > (on my display of course...)
    >
    > --
    > //al


    I develop using firefox and IE and I have implemented a "fix" that
    displays the vertical scroll bar in firefox even if one is not
    necessary to stop that exact shift. And it IE, the bar is always
    there anyways. I would be interested to know what browser you were
    using to determine why this solution was not working in that
    particular browser. Also, if you have a fix for that sideways shift
    that you have used that works on all browsers (more so than the fix I
    have already used) I would appreciate your sharing it. Thanks!
    Justin Voelker, Apr 3, 2007
    #6
  7. Justin.Voelker

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Justin Voelker wrote:
    > On Apr 2, 9:14 pm, al jones <> wrote:
    > > On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:02:30 +1000, andrew wrote:
    > > > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    > > > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    > >
    > > >> Hello Everyone:

    > >
    > > >> I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > > >> practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > > >> design. My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.comhas a simple
    > > >> layout.

    > >
    > > > [...]

    > >
    > > > Hello Justin,

    > >
    > > > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > > > declaration in your source code:

    > >
    > > >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > > >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > > >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > > >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > > >> unless otherwise stated. -->

    > >
    > > > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > > > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > > > adviseability of placing such declarations.

    > >
    > > > Andrew

    > >
    > > Off the cuff here, since it's not displayed and not in the proper format
    > > per copyright specs -enforcibility would probably be zilch!
    > >
    > > I was more amused by the fixed width which 'flutters' back and forth as one
    > > page is long enough to force a vertical scroll bar while the others aren't
    > > (on my display of course...)
    > >
    > > --
    > > //al

    >
    > I develop using firefox and IE and I have implemented a "fix" that
    > displays the vertical scroll bar in firefox even if one is not
    > necessary to stop that exact shift. And it IE, the bar is always
    > there anyways. I would be interested to know what browser you were
    > using to determine why this solution was not working in that
    > particular browser. Also, if you have a fix for that sideways shift
    > that you have used that works on all browsers (more so than the fix I
    > have already used) I would appreciate your sharing it. Thanks!

    He already gave you the answer to the problem. If you can't work out
    why it is the case with the scroll bars, then you probably should not
    be chargeing people for web design work.
    To give you a hint, your site does not fit on smaller view ports. Oh
    and you should also not be useing fixxed font-sizes as IE6 users can't
    re-size them and more to the point, it will make your design break in
    ways that you don't want. In fact the only thing you should specify in
    a fixxed size is images and borders around parts of a page.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
    Chaddy2222, Apr 3, 2007
    #7
  8. On Apr 3, 9:48 am, "Chaddy2222" <spamlovermailbox-
    > wrote:
    > Justin Voelker wrote:
    > > On Apr 2, 9:14 pm, al jones <> wrote:
    > > > On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:02:30 +1000, andrew wrote:
    > > > > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    > > > > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    >
    > > > >> Hello Everyone:

    >
    > > > >> I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > > > >> practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > > > >> design. My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.comhasa simple
    > > > >> layout.

    >
    > > > > [...]

    >
    > > > > Hello Justin,

    >
    > > > > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > > > > declaration in your source code:

    >
    > > > >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > > > >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > > > >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > > > >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > > > >> unless otherwise stated. -->

    >
    > > > > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > > > > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > > > > adviseability of placing such declarations.

    >
    > > > > Andrew

    >
    > > > Off the cuff here, since it's not displayed and not in the proper format
    > > > per copyright specs -enforcibility would probably be zilch!

    >
    > > > I was more amused by the fixed width which 'flutters' back and forth as one
    > > > page is long enough to force a vertical scroll bar while the others aren't
    > > > (on my display of course...)

    >
    > > > --
    > > > //al

    >
    > > I develop using firefox and IE and I have implemented a "fix" that
    > > displays the vertical scroll bar in firefox even if one is not
    > > necessary to stop that exact shift. And it IE, the bar is always
    > > there anyways. I would be interested to know what browser you were
    > > using to determine why this solution was not working in that
    > > particular browser. Also, if you have a fix for that sideways shift
    > > that you have used that works on all browsers (more so than the fix I
    > > have already used) I would appreciate your sharing it. Thanks!

    >
    > He already gave you the answer to the problem. If you can't work out
    > why it is the case with the scroll bars, then you probably should not
    > be chargeing people for web design work.
    > To give you a hint, your site does not fit on smaller view ports. Oh
    > and you should also not be useing fixxed font-sizes as IE6 users can't
    > re-size them and more to the point, it will make your design break in
    > ways that you don't want. In fact the only thing you should specify in
    > a fixxed size is images and borders around parts of a page.
    > --
    > Regards Chad.http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc


    I thank you for your comments Chaddy. As per your recommendation I
    will change the fixed font sizes so they can be resized in IE6.
    However, I will not change the fixed-width of the page. My page can
    be viewed on an 800x600 monitor just fine and I am currently not
    concerned with anything smaller. Is that the right choice? Maybe
    not. Is it my choice to not design websites that fit every possible
    screen resolution that someone might have on a 15 year old "view
    port"? Absolutely.
    Justin Voelker, Apr 3, 2007
    #8
  9. Justin.Voelker

    Chaddy2222 Guest

    Justin Voelker wrote:
    > On Apr 3, 9:48 am, "Chaddy2222" <spamlovermailbox-
    > > wrote:
    > > Justin Voelker wrote:
    > > > On Apr 2, 9:14 pm, al jones <> wrote:
    > > > > On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:02:30 +1000, andrew wrote:
    > > > > > On 2 Apr 2007 08:46:02 -0700
    > > > > > "Justin.Voelker" <> wrote:

    > >
    > > > > >> Hello Everyone:

    > >
    > > > > >> I have numerous website, each one with slightly better html coding
    > > > > >> practices. What I am looking for is the "best practice" sort of page
    > > > > >> design. My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.comhasa simple
    > > > > >> layout.

    > >
    > > > > > [...]

    > >
    > > > > > Hello Justin,

    > >
    > > > > > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > > > > > declaration in your source code:

    > >
    > > > > >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    > > > > >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    > > > > >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    > > > > >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    > > > > >> unless otherwise stated. -->

    > >
    > > > > > and I was a little curious about your thoughts in placing this in your
    > > > > > site? I guess I am asking about effectiveness, enforceability and even
    > > > > > adviseability of placing such declarations.

    > >
    > > > > > Andrew

    > >
    > > > > Off the cuff here, since it's not displayed and not in the proper format
    > > > > per copyright specs -enforcibility would probably be zilch!

    > >
    > > > > I was more amused by the fixed width which 'flutters' back and forth as one
    > > > > page is long enough to force a vertical scroll bar while the others aren't
    > > > > (on my display of course...)

    > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > //al

    > >
    > > > I develop using firefox and IE and I have implemented a "fix" that
    > > > displays the vertical scroll bar in firefox even if one is not
    > > > necessary to stop that exact shift. And it IE, the bar is always
    > > > there anyways. I would be interested to know what browser you were
    > > > using to determine why this solution was not working in that
    > > > particular browser. Also, if you have a fix for that sideways shift
    > > > that you have used that works on all browsers (more so than the fix I
    > > > have already used) I would appreciate your sharing it. Thanks!

    > >
    > > He already gave you the answer to the problem. If you can't work out
    > > why it is the case with the scroll bars, then you probably should not
    > > be chargeing people for web design work.
    > > To give you a hint, your site does not fit on smaller view ports. Oh
    > > and you should also not be useing fixxed font-sizes as IE6 users can't
    > > re-size them and more to the point, it will make your design break in
    > > ways that you don't want. In fact the only thing you should specify in
    > > a fixxed size is images and borders around parts of a page.
    > > --
    > > Regards Chad.http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

    >
    > I thank you for your comments Chaddy. As per your recommendation I
    > will change the fixed font sizes so they can be resized in IE6.
    > However, I will not change the fixed-width of the page. My page can
    > be viewed on an 800x600 monitor just fine and I am currently not
    > concerned with anything smaller. Is that the right choice? Maybe
    > not. Is it my choice to not design websites that fit every possible
    > screen resolution that someone might have on a 15 year old "view
    > port"? Absolutely.

    Fine.
    You should probably remember then that Mobile devices don't always
    have very good scrolling functions.
    PDA's and mobile phones are becomeing more and more popular and so you
    still need to think about how your site looks below 600PX, you should
    at least make sure that all content is visible at such low
    resolutions.
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc
    Chaddy2222, Apr 3, 2007
    #9
  10. On 2007-04-03, Justin Voelker wrote:
    >
    > I thank you for your comments Chaddy. As per your recommendation I
    > will change the fixed font sizes so they can be resized in IE6.
    > However, I will not change the fixed-width of the page. My page can
    > be viewed on an 800x600 monitor just fine and I am currently not
    > concerned with anything smaller. Is that the right choice? Maybe
    > not. Is it my choice to not design websites that fit every possible
    > screen resolution that someone might have on a 15 year old "view
    > port"? Absolutely.


    I design my pages so that they work in any size of window because
    I'm lazy. It takes more work to create a fixed-width page than a
    flexible one.

    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ========= Do not reply to the From: address; use Reply-To: ========
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Apr 3, 2007
    #10
  11. Justin.Voelker

    Bergamot Guest

    Justin Voelker wrote:
    >
    >> > > >> My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.com

    > Is it my choice to not design websites that fit every possible
    > screen resolution that someone might have on a 15 year old "view
    > port"? Absolutely.


    You are apparently assuming that everyone uses full-size browser
    windows. That's an incorrect assumption.

    My screen size is 1600x1200 but my browser window takes a little less
    than half the width, and the full height. Thus I get horizontal
    scrollbars on your site *plus* a vertical scrollbar even with a big
    empty space at the bottom of the page. To me, that looks amateurish.

    If you did a little research, you might discover you can have a flexible
    design that adapts to browser settings like mine as well as those
    running full screen on monitors 800px wide and up. Look up "max-width".
    For a 2-column layout such as yours, max-width:45em could do quite well.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Apr 3, 2007
    #11
  12. Justin.Voelker

    Bergamot Guest

    Justin Voelker wrote:
    > On Apr 3, 1:03 pm, Bergamot <> wrote:
    >> Justin Voelker wrote:
    >>
    >> >> > > >> My newest website,www.Base2WebDesign.com

    >>
    >> Look up "max-width".

    >
    > Berg, Thank you for your comments.


    Justin, please post to the group. If you want a private consultation
    with me, I'll have to bill you for it.

    > I have it coded to always show the
    > vertical bar (in Firefox) because I absolutely hate the page shift
    > that happens when you go from a page that needs one to a page that
    > doesn't.


    I bet most users don't care. You could ask some if you really want to
    know. Personally, I find the superfluous vertical scrollbar more
    annoying. It makes me think there should be something farther down the
    page so it looks broken when I don't find anything there.

    > If you know of a better way to stop that page shift,


    You can always just ignore it. ;)

    > Next, I love the idea of a max-width but
    > for some reason I recall that and min-width not working the same way
    > in Firefox and IE.


    IE7 supports max-width, though it isn't perfect. There are JavaScript
    methods to get it to work in earlier versions. I'm sure a few minutes
    searching google you'll find out how.

    > Also on that topic, what do I do about the image
    > that contains my slogan at the top?


    Why should you do anything special there? The banner is not one big
    graphic, but 2 separate ones on a solid color background.

    > Also, what about the "contact us" form.


    textarea {width:100%}

    BTW, if you're really looking for best practices, you should stop with
    all the divs and start using more semantic HTML. Using real heading
    markup would be a good place to start, then list markup for the
    navigation menu. See
    http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Apr 4, 2007
    #12
  13. andrew wrote:

    > A little sideways of your question: I noticed a copyright
    > declaration in your source code:
    >
    >> <!-- The source code and design of this website remain
    >> property of the developer and any reproduction, modification,
    >> distribution, transmission, republication or display of said items
    >> without prior written consent of the developer is strictly prohibited
    >> unless otherwise stated. -->


    And this appears to "strictlt prohibit" the viewing the website (as that
    is a "display of" the "source code and design") without "prior written
    consent of the developer".

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Geek of ~ HTML/SQL/Perl/PHP/Python*/Apache/Linux

    * = I'm getting there!
    Toby A Inkster, Apr 4, 2007
    #13
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