Blue Screen Python

Discussion in 'Python' started by mikcec82, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. mikcec82

    mikcec82 Guest

    Hallo to all,

    I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
    and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.

    Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
    http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg

    Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?

    If you need more info I'm available.

    Thank you so much,
    Michele
     
    mikcec82, Sep 21, 2012
    #1
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  2. On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 12:04 AM, mikcec82 <> wrote:
    > Hallo to all,
    >
    > I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
    > and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >
    > Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
    > http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
    >
    > Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
    >
    > If you need more info I'm available.


    Ouch, that's not fun. I've never actually seen Python bsod by itself.
    My first guesses are:

    1) It's a buggy library that you're using with Python. Do you know
    what modules your code calls on? Mainly ones that aren't part of the
    standard library.

    2) It's unrelated, but maybe triggered somehow. For instance, your
    Python program might be consuming a lot of RAM, which causes a problem
    when you make use of a faulty bit of memory somewhere in the higher
    addresses.

    Have you run a RAM test on that machine? This is a well-respected one:
    http://www.memtest.org/

    Alternatively, can you narrow the problem down to a particular script
    that will repeatedly cause the BSOD?

    ChrisA
     
    Chris Angelico, Sep 21, 2012
    #2
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  3. On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <> wrote:
    > Hallo to all,
    >
    > I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
    > -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >
    > Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this
    > blue screen:
    > http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
    >
    > Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?


    IMO, the easiest waht to avoid those is by not running Windows. ;)

    Python is a user-space application. User-space applications can't
    cause blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS
    kernel, or device driver.

    The solution is usually to fix the hardware, OS, or device driver.

    --
    Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I'm having an
    at emotional outburst!!
    gmail.com
     
    Grant Edwards, Sep 21, 2012
    #3
  4. mikcec82

    Dave Angel Guest

    On 09/21/2012 12:01 PM, Alister wrote:
    > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 15:14:53 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
    >
    >> On 2012-09-21, mikcec82 <> wrote:
    >>> Hallo to all,
    >>>
    >>> I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit and an Intel Core i3
    >>> -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >>>
    >>> Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this

    >> Python is a user-space application. User-space applications can't cause
    >> blue-screens unless they manage to trigger a bug in hardware, OS kernel,
    >> or device driver.


    True. Too bad there are so many of those bugs.

    > But Windows does not have any true concept of user-space (although it
    > does make an almost convincing pretence) it has been hacked up from an
    > operating system that's original security model was "Lock the door when
    > you leave the office"
    >


    That's not true at all. You're thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
    and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS. But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
    XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.

    NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
    they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
    And who knows what's happened since then.



    --

    DaveA
     
    Dave Angel, Sep 21, 2012
    #4
  5. mikcec82

    Dave Angel Guest

    On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
    > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
    >
    >> <SNIP>
    >>
    >> That's not true at all. You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,
    >> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS. But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,
    >> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.
    >>
    >> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,
    >> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.
    >> And who knows what's happened since then.

    > Although NT upwards has tried to introduce


    Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
    earlier MS product. It was written from scratch by a team recruited
    mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
    experienced in VMS development. The names escape me right now. But
    there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
    outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.

    > user-space requirements the
    > need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.
    > it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's
    > attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)
    >
    >

    I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
    user security models.

    --

    DaveA
     
    Dave Angel, Sep 22, 2012
    #5
  6. Dave Angelæ–¼ 2012å¹´9月22日星期六UTC+8下åˆ7時44分54秒寫é“:
    > On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    > >> <SNIP>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> That's not true at all. You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,

    >
    > >> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS. But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,

    >
    > >> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,

    >
    > >> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.

    >
    > >> And who knows what's happened since then.

    >
    > > Although NT upwards has tried to introduce

    >
    >
    >
    > Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
    >
    > earlier MS product. It was written from scratch by a team recruited
    >
    > mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
    >
    > experienced in VMS development. The names escape me right now. But
    >
    > there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
    >
    > outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
    >
    >
    >
    > > user-space requirements the

    >
    > > need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.

    >
    > > it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's

    >
    > > attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
    >
    > user security models.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >
    > DaveA


    I tested MS NT in 1998-2002. I was pleased by the results to run real
    multi-tasking processes at that time. I ran some linux machines
    at that time, too.

    Anyway the heap walker problems in all the unix and linux systems
    were very obvious in those years.

    My conclusion at that time was people from DEC were really good in the OS.
     
    88888 Dihedral, Sep 22, 2012
    #6
  7. Dave Angelæ–¼ 2012å¹´9月22日星期六UTC+8下åˆ7時44分54秒寫é“:
    > On 09/22/2012 06:53 AM, Alister wrote:
    >
    > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:47:57 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

    >
    > >

    >
    > >> <SNIP>

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> That's not true at all. You'd re thinking of Windows 3, Windows 95, 98,

    >
    > >> and ME, which were hacked on top of MSDOS. But Windows NT3.5, 4, 2000,

    >
    > >> XP, Vista and Windows 7 have an entirely different bloodline.

    >
    > >>

    >
    > >> NT 3.51 was actually very robust, but in 4.0 to gain better performance,

    >
    > >> they apparently did some compromising in the video driver's isolation.

    >
    > >> And who knows what's happened since then.

    >
    > > Although NT upwards has tried to introduce

    >
    >
    >
    > Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
    >
    > earlier MS product. It was written from scratch by a team recruited
    >
    > mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
    >
    > experienced in VMS development. The names escape me right now. But
    >
    > there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
    >
    > outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
    >
    >
    >
    > > user-space requirements the

    >
    > > need to maintain backwards compatibility has compromised these efforts.

    >
    > > it is not helped by the end user's (just look at what happened to Vista's

    >
    > > attempt to make users authorise any changes to the system)

    >
    > >

    >
    > >

    >
    > I don't see any connection between memory address space user models and
    >
    > user security models.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >
    >
    > DaveA


    I tested MS NT in 1998-2002. I was pleased by the results to run real
    multi-tasking processes at that time. I ran some linux machines
    at that time, too.

    Anyway the heap walker problems in all the unix and linux systems
    were very obvious in those years.

    My conclusion at that time was people from DEC were really good in the OS.
     
    88888 Dihedral, Sep 22, 2012
    #7
  8. On 22/09/2012 12:44, Dave Angel wrote:

    >
    > Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
    > earlier MS product. It was written from scratch by a team recruited
    > mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
    > experienced in VMS development. The names escape me right now. But
    > there were a couple of books, by Helen someone, I think, which helped us
    > outsiders understand some of the philosophies of the development.
    >


    IIRC many of the people involved had VMS experience. Apparantly M$
    decided they needed a team who knew something about designing and
    implementing operating systems :)

    --
    Cheers.

    Mark Lawrence.
     
    Mark Lawrence, Sep 22, 2012
    #8
  9. On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 07:44:24 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:

    [...]
    > Your wording seems to imply that you still think NT was built on some
    > earlier MS product. It was written from scratch by a team recruited
    > mostly from outside MS, including the leader, a guy who was I think
    > experienced in VMS development.


    I believe you are thinking of Dave Cutler, who wasn't just experienced in
    VMS development, he invented VMS. He also helped design the VAX, hated
    Unix with a passion, and killed off the RSTS operating system. He's now
    working on the Xbox.

    Windows NT was one of the reasons the IBM and Microsoft fell out. IBM and
    Microsoft partnered to build a new generation operating system, OS/2.
    Microsoft blew through a whole lot of IBM's money, produced something
    that they called version 1 but was more like version 0.1 (it only did
    text applications and had no GUI). They did eventually bring out a 1.1
    version with a GUI, a year later.

    As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2
    version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was
    significantly improved over the 1.x series.

    Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and
    instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit
    of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that
    Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.


    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Sep 22, 2012
    #9
  10. On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
    <> wrote:
    > As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2
    > version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was
    > significantly improved over the 1.x series.
    >
    > Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and
    > instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit
    > of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that
    > Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.


    And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
    By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
    scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
    succeed...

    OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards FTW.

    ChrisA
     
    Chris Angelico, Sep 22, 2012
    #10
  11. Chris Angelicoæ–¼ 2012å¹´9月22日星期六UTC+8下åˆ10時10分12秒寫é“:
    > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2

    >
    > > version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was

    >
    > > significantly improved over the 1.x series.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and

    >
    > > instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit

    >
    > > of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that

    >
    > > Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.

    >
    >
    >
    > And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
    >
    > By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
    >
    > scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
    >
    > succeed...
    >
    >
    >
    > OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards so .
    >
    >
    >
    > ChrisA


    This is off topic in this forum. But we are getting so far at the MMU part.
    A cpu with an L1 and an L2 caches of large sizes is better to be
    equipped with a VMS like OS in the thread and the heap managements.


    But if the situation is different, some other alternative approaches
    might be more appropriate.
     
    88888 Dihedral, Sep 23, 2012
    #11
  12. Chris Angelicoæ–¼ 2012å¹´9月22日星期六UTC+8下åˆ10時10分12秒寫é“:
    > On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
    >
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > As per their partnership agreement, IBM took over development of OS/2

    >
    > > version 2 while Microsoft worked on developing version 3. OS/2 2.0 was

    >
    > > significantly improved over the 1.x series.

    >
    > >

    >
    > > Then Microsoft reneged on the agreement to release OS/2 version 3, and

    >
    > > instead re-badged it as Windows NT. One might say there was a little bit

    >
    > > of bad blood over this, especially as IBM had good reason to think that

    >
    > > Microsoft had been spending IBM's money on NT.

    >
    >
    >
    > And ever since then, Microsoft's been doing its best to kill OS/2 off.
    >
    > By the look of the database server sitting next to me, and the clients
    >
    > scattered throughout the building, it seems they have yet to
    >
    > succeed...
    >
    >
    >
    > OS/2 and Linux interoperate quite happily, too. Standards so .
    >
    >
    >
    > ChrisA


    This is off topic in this forum. But we are getting so far at the MMU part.
    A cpu with an L1 and an L2 caches of large sizes is better to be
    equipped with a VMS like OS in the thread and the heap managements.


    But if the situation is different, some other alternative approaches
    might be more appropriate.
     
    88888 Dihedral, Sep 23, 2012
    #12
  13. mikcec82

    mikcec82 Guest

    Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
    > Hallo to all,
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
    >
    > and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >
    >
    >
    > Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
    >
    > http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
    >
    >
    >
    > Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
    >
    >
    >
    > If you need more info I'm available.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you so much,
    >
    > Michele


    Hi to all,
    and thanks for your answers.

    I'm not using a buggy library.
    Yesterday I have another BSOD...but I was using only "OS" library.

    I have also tested memory using memtest, but there wasn't errors.

    In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?

    Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?

    Thank you very much to you.

    Have a good day,
    Michele
     
    mikcec82, Oct 9, 2012
    #13
  14. On 10/09/2012 09:37 AM, mikcec82 wrote:
    > In my script I open and close an html (in a FOR cycle); could be this the problem?

    Unless you're running your Python script as a kernel driver (and you
    can't do that accidentally), there is no way that your user-space
    program should cause a bluescreen. This is an error in Windows (or one
    of the drivers), not in Python or your program.

    What you can do is insert your Windows DVD, boot from it, and click Repair.

    > Or is it possible that Python 2.7 is not compatible with Win7?

    No, even if a user-space program could legitimately cause a bluescreen,
    Python 2.7 still works fine one thousands of Win7 machines.

    Cheers,

    Philipp


    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

    iEYEAREKAAYFAlBz/SgACgkQ9eq1gvr7CFyKFgCgp+QYYeOQ+qKHF/ACiplH32yy
    IHoAn3E2CA/WD/+shMOacC/GLOxA5QsP
    =c2R5
    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
     
    Philipp Hagemeister, Oct 9, 2012
    #14
  15. mikcec82

    mikcec82 Guest

    Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
    > Hallo to all,
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
    >
    > and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >
    >
    >
    > Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
    >
    > http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
    >
    >
    >
    > Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
    >
    >
    >
    > If you need more info I'm available.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you so much,
    >
    > Michele


    Thank you so much Philipp.
    Now I am at work and I can't insert Windows DVD, but as soon as possible I'll done as you said and report you if the problem is solved or not.

    Best regards,
    Michele
     
    mikcec82, Oct 9, 2012
    #15
  16. mikcec82

    mikcec82 Guest

    Il giorno venerdì 21 settembre 2012 16:04:48 UTC+2, mikcec82 ha scritto:
    > Hallo to all,
    >
    >
    >
    > I'm using Python 2.7.3 with Windows 7 @ 64 bit
    >
    > and an Intel Core i3 -2350M CPU @2.30GHz 2.3GHz.
    >
    >
    >
    > Sometimes, when I'm programming in Python on my screen compare this blue screen:
    >
    > http://imageshack.us/a/img228/8352/48579647436249494527021.jpg
    >
    >
    >
    > Can you help on what is the issue, and how I can solve it?
    >
    >
    >
    > If you need more info I'm available.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you so much,
    >
    > Michele


    Hi to all.

    I solved the problem by creating a WINDOWS XP Virtual Machine (by installing Windows Remote Pc). In this way I have no more problems.

    I hope this could be helpful to other people.

    Have a nice day,
    Michele
     
    mikcec82, Oct 22, 2012
    #16
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