Bobby and caption of a table

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 5, 2004.

  1. Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 5, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:

    > Do you understand this? I don´t.
    > "If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a caption.


    That comes after the "you need to determine manually whether they apply and,
    if applicable, whether your page meets the requirements".

    <em>manually</em>

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
    David Dorward, Jul 5, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:15:31 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >Do you understand this? I don´t.
    >"If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a caption. (2
    >instances)
    >Lines 147, 211-212 "


    That is within the user checks - as you already have one it isn't a
    problem. However, the other stuff means provide a summary for every
    table etc.

    <table summary="Layout Table" ------ for layout

    <table summary="Main menu" ------ for a menu table

    <table summary="Price List Comparison" ------ for a price list
    comparison

    etc....

    >http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bo...n3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=#g250
    >I think that I already have a caption between line 210 and line 212


    Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    You may find it easier.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 5, 2004
    #3
  4. "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:15:31 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Do you understand this? I don´t.
    > >"If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a caption.

    (2
    > >instances)
    > >Lines 147, 211-212 "

    >
    > That is within the user checks - as you already have one it isn't a
    > problem. However, the other stuff means provide a summary for every
    > table etc.
    >
    > <table summary="Layout Table" ------ for layout
    >
    > <table summary="Main menu" ------ for a menu table
    >
    > <table summary="Price List Comparison" ------ for a price list
    > comparison
    >
    > etc....


    Well, the table with the pictures and the area of each room has already a
    summary. I tried to write another one but I am not sure which is better.
    The same table also has <TH scope="col" and <td scope="row">
    The table for the search engine has not yet.
    There is one point about whether
    the foreground and background colors contrast sufficiently with each other.
    Is it the contrast within the colours in the photo or between the background
    of the page and the colours of the photos which is meant?
    >
    >http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http://www.scaiecat

    -spa-gigi.com%2Fsv%2Flagenhetitalien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=#
    g250
    > >I think that I already have a caption between line 210 and line 212

    >
    > Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    > You may find it easier.


    Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.
    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/faktaomitalien.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 5, 2004
    #4
  5. On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:43:30 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >Well, the table with the pictures and the area of each room has already a
    >summary. I tried to write another one but I am not sure which is better.
    >The same table also has <TH scope="col" and <td scope="row">
    >The table for the search engine has not yet.


    Every table should have 1 and only 1 summary. Nested tables included.

    >There is one point about whether
    > the foreground and background colors contrast sufficiently with each other.
    >Is it the contrast within the colours in the photo or between the background
    >of the page and the colours of the photos which is meant?

    Contrast in or around photos do not count as the alt tag and/or D link
    should be sufficient to explain the picture in full. Lets face it,
    not everyone has photos turned on anyway.

    Contrast counts when text is on the screen or when colour means
    something ie if each row of text (or numbers etc) alternates colour to
    show that the rows have changed then the contrast between the text,
    rows and background need to be sufficient to be able to read the text
    - Try printing on a black and white printer at draft resolution to see
    if you can read all of it and that the change of contrast is
    sufficient.

    At the end of the day, it is extremely nice to have AAA (Level 3)
    however, it is not meant as a restriction to asthetics.

    In UK, the legal minimum requirement is single A (yet to be tested in
    a court of Law though the RNIB keep promising).

    My interpretation is as follows:
    A - Must do.
    AA - Should do.
    AAA - IF you can do.

    You are testing with AAA turned on and this is the hardest to correct.
    Customise your test to just do A or AA and go onto AAA when you have
    mastered the lower levels.
    >>http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http://www.scaiecat

    >-spa-gigi.com%2Fsv%2Flagenhetitalien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=#
    >g250


    >> Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    >> You may find it easier.

    >Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.

    I use it all the time, it is owned and run by the same people that
    have Bobby. It is easier, more informative and faster than Bobby.


    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 6, 2004
    #5
  6. "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:43:30 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Well, the table with the pictures and the area of each room has already a
    > >summary. I tried to write another one but I am not sure which is better.
    > >The same table also has <TH scope="col" and <td scope="row">
    > >The table for the search engine has not yet.

    >
    > Every table should have 1 and only 1 summary. Nested tables included.

    I have put a summary on that table too.
    > >There is one point about whether
    > > the foreground and background colors contrast sufficiently with each

    other.
    > >Is it the contrast within the colours in the photo or between the

    background
    > >of the page and the colours of the photos which is meant?

    > Contrast in or around photos do not count as the alt tag and/or D link
    > should be sufficient to explain the picture in full. Lets face it,
    > not everyone has photos turned on anyway.
    >
    > Contrast counts when text is on the screen or when colour means
    > something ie if each row of text (or numbers etc) alternates colour to
    > show that the rows have changed then the contrast between the text,
    > rows and background need to be sufficient to be able to read the text

    What about those who find it difficult to see some colours?
    > - Try printing on a black and white printer at draft resolution to see
    > if you can read all of it and that the change of contrast is
    > sufficient.

    Is it possible to customize a printer Canon BJC 250 to let it print in black
    and white?
    >
    > At the end of the day, it is extremely nice to have AAA (Level 3)
    > however, it is not meant as a restriction to asthetics.
    >
    > In UK, the legal minimum requirement is single A (yet to be tested in
    > a court of Law though the RNIB keep promising).
    >
    > My interpretation is as follows:
    > A - Must do.
    > AA - Should do.
    > AAA - IF you can do.
    >
    > You are testing with AAA turned on and this is the hardest to correct.
    > Customise your test to just do A or AA and go onto AAA when you have
    > mastered the lower levels.

    How do I customize that?
    >>http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http://www.scaieca

    t
    >
    >-spa-gigi.com%2Fsv%2Flagenhetitalien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1-aaa&test=

    #
    > >g250

    >
    > >> Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    > >> You may find it easier.

    > >Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.

    > I use it all the time, it is owned and run by the same people that
    > have Bobby. It is easier, more informative and faster than Bobby.

    But I do not need use any Java script for the other.
    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.italymap.dk/italien-karta.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/ferienwohnung-sizilien.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 6, 2004
    #6
  7. Luigi Donatello Asero

    rf Guest

    Luigi Donatello wrote

    > "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    > <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    > > On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 22:43:30 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Well, the table with the pictures and the area of each room has already

    a
    > > >summary. I tried to write another one but I am not sure which is

    better.
    > > >The same table also has <TH scope="col" and <td scope="row">
    > > >The table for the search engine has not yet.

    > >
    > > Every table should have 1 and only 1 summary. Nested tables included.

    > I have put a summary on that table too.
    > > >There is one point about whether
    > > > the foreground and background colors contrast sufficiently with each

    > other.
    > > >Is it the contrast within the colours in the photo or between the

    > background
    > > >of the page and the colours of the photos which is meant?

    > > Contrast in or around photos do not count as the alt tag and/or D link
    > > should be sufficient to explain the picture in full. Lets face it,


    .... stops reading here...

    LDA: Do you think that you could make it any harder for me to find out which
    parts of this post belong to the poster you are replying to and which parts
    belong to you?

    Hint: Look at the above: my newsreader has wrapped things, other peoples
    newsreaders have wrapped thing, most of them have added a >, Now, Which of
    the above words are yours?

    I for one have no bloody idea!

    Please format your posts so that I at least can read them.

    Unreadable posts == nobody pays any attention to them.

    Do you wonder I gave up on you the other day...

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Jul 6, 2004
    #7
  8. On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:40:53 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:


    >> Every table should have 1 and only 1 summary. Nested tables included.

    >I have put a summary on that table too.

    No problem then.

    >> >There is one point about whether
    >> > the foreground and background colors contrast sufficiently with each

    >other.
    >> >Is it the contrast within the colours in the photo or between the

    >background
    >> >of the page and the colours of the photos which is meant?

    >> Contrast in or around photos do not count as the alt tag and/or D link
    >> should be sufficient to explain the picture in full. Lets face it,
    >> not everyone has photos turned on anyway.
    >> Contrast counts when text is on the screen or when colour means
    >> something ie if each row of text (or numbers etc) alternates colour to
    >> show that the rows have changed then the contrast between the text,
    >> rows and background need to be sufficient to be able to read the text

    >What about those who find it difficult to see some colours?

    There are some colour combinations to avoid and you will need to
    research this if it interests you. Remember that every viewer has the
    option to turn off colour, font and font size if they wish. They can
    also use their own CSS.


    >> - Try printing on a black and white printer at draft resolution to see
    >> if you can read all of it and that the change of contrast is
    >> sufficient.

    >Is it possible to customize a printer Canon BJC 250 to let it print in black
    >and white?

    ? Don't know, try looking for greyscale as an option.

    >> Customise your test to just do A or AA and go onto AAA when you have
    >> mastered the lower levels.

    >How do I customize that?

    go to http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/html/en/advanced.jsp and choose
    level 1, 1&2 or 3. 1=A 2=AA 3=AAA.
    You may be surprised by the results.

    >> >> Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    >> >> You may find it easier.
    >> >Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.

    >> I use it all the time, it is owned and run by the same people that
    >> have Bobby. It is easier, more informative and faster than Bobby.

    >But I do not need use any Java script for the other.

    ??? I do not use any java script myself - it does all the testing
    itself.

    Try Bobby and Webxact on www.bolton-community-college.ac.uk.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 6, 2004
    #8
  9. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:

    > Do you understand this? I don´t.


    I think I understand what they're saying _and_ why that's wrong.

    > "If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a
    > caption. (2 instances)


    Bobby is making its own rules. Do you wish to comply with Bobby rules, or
    with the W3C WAI rules, or do you wish to create accessible pages? Three
    different objectives, though somewhat correlated.

    > Lines 147, 211-212 "
    > http://bobby.watchfire.com/bobby/bobbyServlet?URL=http://www.sca
    > iecat-spa-gigi.com%2Fsv%2Flagenhetitalien3.html&output=Submit&gl=wcag1
    > -aaa&test=#g250 I think that I already have a caption between line
    > 210 and line 212 --


    Indeed. So the "checking tool" is just confusing here. It performs some
    fairly trivial checks and then spits out some "manual checks" stuff about
    matters it does not check - even for things that _could_ be checked
    automatically to some extent.

    There's not much point in those "manual checks" messages. If you know
    what they really aim at, you knew what needs to be done before you used
    the "tool". If you don't know, you'll just get confused - or even start
    writing worse than useless captions and summaries without paying
    attention to _why_ they might (or might not) be useful.

    Your table might have some accessibility problems, but Bobby is not of
    any help in idenfifying them. The caption you have is just fine. Don't
    ask _me_ why Bobby babbles about potential need for a <caption> element
    in a case that clearly has one; _I_ didn't recommend using Bobby, and
    won't.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 6, 2004
    #9
  10. "Jukka K. Korpela" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:Xns951EE2DCD48EFjkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    >
    > > Do you understand this? I don´t.

    >
    > I think I understand what they're saying _and_ why that's wrong.
    >
    > > "If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a
    > > caption. (2 instances)

    >
    > Bobby is making its own rules. Do you wish to comply with Bobby rules, or
    > with the W3C WAI rules, or do you wish to create accessible pages? Three
    > different objectives, though somewhat correlated.


    I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.

    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeisverige.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 6, 2004
    #10
  11. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Karl Groves Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    news:ISFGc.98013$...
    >
    > "Jukka K. Korpela" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:Xns951EE2DCD48EFjkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Do you understand this? I don´t.

    > >
    > > I think I understand what they're saying _and_ why that's wrong.
    > >
    > > > "If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a
    > > > caption. (2 instances)

    > >
    > > Bobby is making its own rules. Do you wish to comply with Bobby rules,

    or
    > > with the W3C WAI rules, or do you wish to create accessible pages? Three
    > > different objectives, though somewhat correlated.

    >
    > I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.


    Then do not measure your level of accessibility by whether it passes muster
    with an automated checking tool.


    -Karl
    Karl Groves, Jul 7, 2004
    #11
  12. "Karl Groves" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:ccfavd$gb9$...
    >
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    > news:ISFGc.98013$...
    > >
    > > "Jukka K. Korpela" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > > news:Xns951EE2DCD48EFjkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > > > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Do you understand this? I don´t.
    > > >
    > > > I think I understand what they're saying _and_ why that's wrong.
    > > >
    > > > > "If this is a data table (not used for layout only), provide a
    > > > > caption. (2 instances)
    > > >
    > > > Bobby is making its own rules. Do you wish to comply with Bobby rules,

    > or
    > > > with the W3C WAI rules, or do you wish to create accessible pages?

    Three
    > > > different objectives, though somewhat correlated.

    > >
    > > I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.

    >
    > Then do not measure your level of accessibility by whether it passes

    muster
    > with an automated checking tool.
    >
    >
    > -Karl


    Automated checking tools are certainly not the only thing I use to try to
    reach
    accessibility: they are useful but they have limits.
    The guidelines from W3 are no automated checking tools.
    http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/
    Bobby and the HTML validator are checking tools
    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeisverige.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jul 7, 2004
    #12
  13. Luigi Donatello Asero

    Andy Dingley Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message news:<ISFGc.98013$>...

    > I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.


    So far you're failing badly.

    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/faktaomitalien.html
    is a page that's poorly laid out, unstructured, hard to follow and
    basically _ugly_. You have become so wrapped up in catching that
    Bobby icon that you've lost the big picture.

    Go away and read Tufte or someone. Then start that page again from
    scratch, and give it some coherent top-level structure before you
    start to worry about the details.

    If the page is poorly designed, it becomes inaccessible to _everyone_.

    Bobby icons are a guarantee of poor page design and the resultant poor
    accessibility. They're the spoor of a web coder who is so focused on
    the small picture that they've forgotten the important stuff.
    Andy Dingley, Jul 7, 2004
    #13
  14. "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > At the end of the day, it is extremely nice to have AAA (Level 3)
    > however, it is not meant as a restriction to asthetics.
    >
    > In UK, the legal minimum requirement is single A (yet to be tested in
    > a court of Law though the RNIB keep promising).


    I would be happy with an A rating for now.

    > My interpretation is as follows:
    > A - Must do.
    > AA - Should do.
    > AAA - IF you can do.


    I 'think' I am ok for A, my sites passes the automatic tests, but
    I am not 100% sure about the manual ones (I am a bit biased!),
    where is the best place to get some kind person to check the
    results and give me advice on fixing any problems? I would like
    to put the little bobby logo on my site, but don't want to until I
    am 100% sure its ok.

    > >> Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    > >> You may find it easier.

    > >Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.

    > I use it all the time, it is owned and run by the same people that
    > have Bobby. It is easier, more informative and faster than Bobby.


    It does seem better than the 'normal' Bobby one.

    > --
    > It will be a great day when our schools have
    > all the money they need and the Air Force
    > has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.


    Very true

    > It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and

    write.

    My 6 year old can read and write quite well, but I don't know
    how much of that is the school and how much is us teaching her
    at home.

    --
    Dean / Psyonic
    www.aspexdesign.co.uk Free graphics files and more
    Psyonicdreams, Jul 8, 2004
    #14
  15. "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    news:ccfavd$gb9$...
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    > news:ISFGc.98013$...
    > > I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.


    Same here.

    > Then do not measure your level of accessibility by whether it passes

    muster
    > with an automated checking tool.


    The problem is that a lot of people think that if its looks ok to
    them then it is ok, I would love to see a really good accessability
    checker that was completely automated. I have read the WAI
    rules and find them hard to work out perfectly by hand, its too
    easy for most to look at dark green text on a black background
    and think "I can read it, it must be fine"

    --
    Dean / Psyonic
    www.aspexdesign.co.uk Free graphics files and more
    Psyonicdreams, Jul 8, 2004
    #15
  16. Psyonicdreams wrote:

    > I 'think' I am ok for A, my sites passes the automatic tests, but
    > I am not 100% sure about the manual ones (I am a bit biased!),
    > where is the best place to get some kind person to check the
    > results and give me advice on fixing any problems?


    alt.html.critique.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
    Toby A Inkster, Jul 8, 2004
    #16
  17. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:59:26 +0100, "Psyonicdreams" <>
    wrote:

    >"Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> At the end of the day, it is extremely nice to have AAA (Level 3)
    >> however, it is not meant as a restriction to asthetics.
    >>
    >> In UK, the legal minimum requirement is single A (yet to be tested in
    >> a court of Law though the RNIB keep promising).

    >
    >I would be happy with an A rating for now.

    What is the URL?

    >> My interpretation is as follows:
    >> A - Must do.
    >> AA - Should do.
    >> AAA - IF you can do.

    >
    >I 'think' I am ok for A, my sites passes the automatic tests, but
    >I am not 100% sure about the manual ones (I am a bit biased!),
    >where is the best place to get some kind person to check the
    >results and give me advice on fixing any problems? I would like
    >to put the little bobby logo on my site, but don't want to until I
    >am 100% sure its ok.

    <Grin> You would be surprised by the number of sites claiming to be
    Bobby compliant and failing to add an alt to the Bobby logo thereby
    invalidating their claim.</Grin>

    >> >> Try testing it with this http://webxact.watchfire.com/
    >> >> You may find it easier.
    >> >Unfortunately, it seems to use javascript which I do not like.

    >> I use it all the time, it is owned and run by the same people that
    >> have Bobby. It is easier, more informative and faster than Bobby.

    >
    >It does seem better than the 'normal' Bobby one.

    It also advises about other things such as meta tags etc....

    >> --
    >> It will be a great day when our schools have
    >> all the money they need and the Air Force
    >> has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.

    >
    >Very true
    >
    >> It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and

    >write.
    >
    >My 6 year old can read and write quite well, but I don't know
    >how much of that is the school and how much is us teaching her
    >at home.

    I agree, as a child of 6, I helped my 9 year old brother to read.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #17
  18. On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:08:01 +0100, "Psyonicdreams" <>
    wrote:

    >"Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    >news:ccfavd$gb9$...
    >> "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in message
    >> news:ISFGc.98013$...
    >> > I want to create pages which are as accessible as possible.

    >
    >Same here.
    >
    >> Then do not measure your level of accessibility by whether it passes

    >muster
    >> with an automated checking tool.

    >
    >The problem is that a lot of people think that if its looks ok to
    >them then it is ok, I would love to see a really good accessability
    >checker that was completely automated. I have read the WAI
    >rules and find them hard to work out perfectly by hand, its too
    >easy for most to look at dark green text on a black background
    >and think "I can read it, it must be fine"

    Provided you have stuck to the guidelines, the user should be able to
    change the colours as they see fit using their own css. However, the
    normal punter does not and will not want to know how.

    Now, turn off your monitor.

    Can you now navigate your system?

    I can mine - though mine is on an intranet that the public cannot
    access - mine is also aimed primarily at blind people.
    --
    It will be a great day when our schools have
    all the money they need and the Air Force
    has to hold a car boot sale to buy a new bomber.
    -
    It will be an even better day when schools teach children to read and write.
    Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I, Jul 8, 2004
    #18
  19. "Titus A Ducksass - Gran stopped chastising me so I changed back."
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:59:26 +0100, "Psyonicdreams" <>
    > wrote:
    > >I would be happy with an A rating for now.

    >
    > What is the URL?


    http://www.aspexdesign.co.uk

    Any constructive comments on accessability are VERY
    welcome. The site is not perfect, but its just my little home
    page. Accessabilty is important to me, I am physically
    disabled and I have just spent the last year learning sign
    language and studying "deaf community and culture", so I
    do worry about access.

    > >I 'think' I am ok for A, my sites passes the automatic tests, but
    > >I am not 100% sure about the manual ones (I am a bit biased!),
    > >where is the best place to get some kind person to check the
    > >results and give me advice on fixing any problems? I would like
    > >to put the little bobby logo on my site, but don't want to until I
    > >am 100% sure its ok.

    > <Grin> You would be surprised by the number of sites claiming to be
    > Bobby compliant and failing to add an alt to the Bobby logo thereby
    > invalidating their claim.</Grin>


    I can believe it, its the sort of stupid mistake I make when
    working on my site at 3am in the morning. Closest thing I did
    recently was to make my site 100% valid xhtml, put the logos
    on, then add a banner using somebody elses invalid code and
    forgot to revalidate it, doh! I felt very stupid when it was
    pointed out.

    Dean
    Psyonicdreams, Jul 8, 2004
    #19
  20. Luigi Donatello Asero

    jake Guest

    In message <cck6ln$c0i$>, Psyonicdreams
    <> writes
    [snip]

    >
    >http://www.aspexdesign.co.uk
    >
    >Any constructive comments on accessability are VERY
    >welcome. The site is not perfect, but its just my little home
    >page. Accessabilty is important to me, I am physically
    >disabled and I have just spent the last year learning sign
    >language and studying "deaf community and culture", so I
    >do worry about access.
    >

    [snip]

    >
    >Dean
    >
    >


    Just a few thoughts:

    (a) Don't set the size of paragraph text in 'pt' units; if you do, users
    of MS IE won't be able to (easily) increase the size of the text. Use
    "%".

    'font-size:100%;' will ensure that the user sees the text in the size
    s/he wishes to see it.

    (b) Put a 'skip to main content' link at the start of each page so the
    user of assistive technology (AT) -- screen-readers, talking browsers,
    etc. -- can bypass the navigation at the start of each page. The link
    can be visible or invisible as you wish.

    (b) On each page, disable the link for that page in the navigation list.
    e.g. On the 'free stuff' page, disable the 'free stuff' link.

    (c) Many AT UAs rely on page mark-up and punctuation to decide how to
    pause reading, change tone, etc.

    (i) You need an additional 'accessible' page for your poems, where the
    poems contain the appropriate punctuation, otherwise the words will just
    run into one another.
    (ii) Similar. On pages like 'info', the sentences could do with
    full-stops (periods).

    (d) On each page, before supplying links to external sites that open in
    a new window -- warn people that the link(s) open in a new window.

    (e) On the 'photos' page, provide the correct mark-up for the data
    table.

    (f) On the 'links' page, set the alternative text of *all* occurrences
    of 'gold.gif' to alt=""

    (g) On the 'links' page you have "...If you want to link to me then
    please use one of these banners: ...", but the alternative text on the
    following banner images are set to alt="". Set the alternative text to
    reflect the content of the banners, otherwise it makes no sense to AT
    users.

    (h) On your home page, you have a "...[Make payments with PayPal - it's
    fast, free and secure!: Image Button.] ..." link.

    Either this should be preceded by a suitable header, or the link should
    be to be moved further down the following paragraph.

    (i) Things that might be nice if you get the time:
    A. Put titles on your links
    B. Mark-up the first occurrence of an abbreviation on a page e.g. ICQ
    C. Put 'You are here: ' at the start of the crumb trail


    Anyway ......just a few thoughts.

    regards.
    --
    Jake
    jake, Jul 9, 2004
    #20
    1. Advertising

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