<body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Hi to all,

    whats the best way for that
    <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    without validation errors?
    Rightmargin is not working with (normally I would use strict)

    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
    it is working with
    <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

    but with validation errors for color value and rightmargin?

    Regards Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. Knut Krueger

    Els Guest

    Knut Krueger wrote:

    > whats the best way for that
    > <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    > without validation errors?


    <body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">

    Pay attention to the " :)

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
     
    Els, Feb 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Els schrieb:
    > Knut Krueger wrote:
    >
    >> whats the best way for that
    >> <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    >> without validation errors?

    >
    > <body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">
    >
    > Pay attention to the " :)


    The same validation error http://www.briefwexl.at/index.php
    Regards Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Knut Krueger

    Els Guest

    Knut Krueger wrote:

    > Els schrieb:
    >> Knut Krueger wrote:
    >>
    >>> whats the best way for that
    >>> <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    >>> without validation errors?

    >>
    >> <body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">
    >>
    >> Pay attention to the " :)

    >
    > The same validation error http://www.briefwexl.at/index.php


    The same code as you wrote. The code I wrote for you is not in the
    page.

    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
     
    Els, Feb 27, 2008
    #4
  5. Scripsit Knut Krueger:

    >>> whats the best way for that
    >>> <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    >>> without validation errors?

    >>
    >> <body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">
    >>
    >> Pay attention to the " :)

    >
    > The same validation error http://www.briefwexl.at/index.php


    What? You did _not_ apply the suggestion that you quoted.

    The markup is so confused that you should really restart from scratch,
    using HTML 4.01 Strict and delegating presentational issues to CSS. And
    don't forget to set text and link colors and background-image (usually
    to none) when you set background-color.

    --
    Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Feb 27, 2008
    #5
  6. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Jukka K. Korpela schrieb:
    > Scripsit Knut Krueger:
    >
    >>>> whats the best way for that
    >>>> <body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
    >>>> without validation errors?
    >>>
    >>> <body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">
    >>>
    >>> Pay attention to the " :)

    >>
    >> The same validation error http://www.briefwexl.at/index.php

    >
    > What? You did _not_ apply the suggestion that you quoted.


    uups sorry I moved the new file to the wrong webbpage ....

    Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008
    #6
  7. Knut Krueger wrote:

    > uups sorry I moved the new file to the wrong webbpage ....


    You might also want to correct the CSS errors.

    For example, removing the # where it doesn't belong:

    #display: block;
    # float: left;
    # clear: left;
    # margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 300px;

    If the intent there was to comment them out, a CSS comment is:

    /* display: block; */

    Move the sans-serif to the end of the selection of font families.

    And:
    margin-top: 0em;
    margin-bottom: 0em;
    margin-right: 0em;
    margin-left: 0em;

    can be written as: margin: 0;

    Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
    http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 27, 2008
    #7
  8. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest


    > If the intent there was to comment them out, a CSS comment is:


    Thats terrible with the comments. I always struggle with the different
    comments in R-Statistic, C, Pascal, HTML, CSS, PHP, CGI :-( I am using
    all laguages sometimes all together at one day ...)

    > Move the sans-serif to the end of the selection of font families.


    > And:
    > margin-top: 0em;
    > margin-bottom: 0em;
    > margin-right: 0em;
    > margin-left: 0em;
    >
    > can be written as: margin: 0;

    I will change this if the page is ready but during building the page i
    can change it more easy.
    >
    > Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
    > http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html


    But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
    Whats wrong if is not 100%?

    I must discuss this with the owner of the page ...
    Regards Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008
    #8
  9. Knut Krueger wrote:

    > [Beauregard wrote:] <-- please do not strip attributes
    >> Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
    >> http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

    >
    > But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
    > Whats wrong if is not 100%?


    100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size. If you think it
    looks too large in your browser, adjust your own default to something
    comfortable for your eyes. In the meantime, allow your visitors to do
    the same.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 27, 2008
    #9
  10. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:
    > Knut Krueger wrote:
    >
    >> [Beauregard wrote:] <-- please do not strip attributes
    >>> Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
    >>> http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

    >> But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
    >> Whats wrong if is not 100%?

    >
    > 100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size.


    I will try to convince them ...

    It's always the problem between illustrator and web developing.
    Most of them prefer a fixed layout, and on my screen I have about 60%
    empty space if it is at fixed 1024*768. I feel that the amount of pages
    with fixed layout is growing instead decreasing.

    Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Feb 27, 2008
    #10
  11. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Re: Fontsize 100%

    Knut Krueger schrieb:

    >> 100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size.

    >


    Hi to all,
    again the question to the fontsize,
    like fixed layout there are a rising pages with a default fontsise
    smaller than 100%
    I found most of that pages from uninversity.
    f.e http://www.cornell.edu/

    body {
    font-family : verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    font-size : 100%;
    ....
    is 100% but they are not using the default very often, mostly small
    sizes sizes.

    Using the default fonsize makes the pages "old fashioned" - not only my
    words - but the words of other useres

    What the solution for that in your opinion.

    Regards Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Mar 10, 2008
    #11
  12. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Knut Krueger wrote:

    > Knut Krueger schrieb:
    > [Knut did not write the following line.]
    >>> 100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size.

    >
    > Hi to all,
    > again the question to the fontsize,
    > like fixed layout there are a rising [number of] pages with a default
    > fontsise smaller than 100% I found most of that pages from
    > uninversity.
    > f.e http://www.cornell.edu/
    >
    > body {
    > font-family : verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
    > font-size : 100%;
    > ...
    > is 100% but they are not using the default very often, mostly small
    > sizes sizes.


    Perhaps everyone who attends, or expects to attend, Cornell University
    has better-than-perfect vision. I had to increase my browser's font size
    to about 120% just to read the main content. At that point, the design
    layout starts to fall apart.

    The CSS for this site is overly-complicated, and a poor example.

    > Using the default fonsize makes the pages "old fashioned" - not only
    > my words - but the words of other useres
    >
    > What the solution for that in your opinion.


    Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 10, 2008
    #12
  13. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Re: Fontsize 100%

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:

    > Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?
    >


    Please do not missunderstand me.
    I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
    layout is dominating the feeling of the users.

    > Perhaps everyone who attends, or expects to attend, Cornell University
    > has better-than-perfect vision.

    I was at nearly 200 University Homepages the last week, most of them
    have very small fonts, and I hate them too.


    The problem is that you are outside of the "society" if you are using
    the 100% font. In the mind of lto of users your homepage looks outmoded.

    Thats whate customers and users are telling you.

    The question is what are you doing against those arguments..

    Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Mar 10, 2008
    #13
  14. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Knut Krueger wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:
    >> Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?

    >
    > Please do not missunderstand me.
    > I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
    > layout is dominating the feeling of the users.


    Sorry, that sentence does not translate well. Are you saying that using
    *my* default font size is wrong? For what degree of wrong?

    >> Perhaps everyone who attends, or expects to attend, Cornell
    >> University has better-than-perfect vision.

    >
    > I was at nearly 200 University Homepages the last week, most of them
    > have very small fonts, and I hate them too.


    Yes, it is a common mistake, and not only among university web sites.

    > The problem is that you are outside of the "society" if you are using
    > the 100% font. In the mind of lto of users your homepage looks
    > outmoded.


    ...but they can read it.

    > Thats whate customers and users are telling you.


    I have never had a visitor to any of my sites complain that the font
    size was outmoded.

    > The question is what are you doing against those arguments..


    Me, personally? I'm doing nothing, other than using 100% for all
    content, other than headings and footers.

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 10, 2008
    #14
  15. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Knut Krueger wrote:

    > again the question to the fontsize,
    > like fixed layout there are a rising pages with a default fontsise
    > smaller than 100%
    > I found most of that pages from uninversity.
    > f.e http://www.cornell.edu/


    Most colleges and universities have horrible websites, but then again
    the courses they teach in computer science department on web design is
    usually of a ripe old mid-90s vintage or just plainly put "bad".

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 10, 2008
    #15
  16. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Knut Krueger wrote:
    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:
    >
    >> Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?
    >>

    >
    > Please do not missunderstand me.
    > I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
    > layout is dominating the feeling of the users.


    Well a website is about communication, and if the user cannot read the
    content... well?

    Yes, the user usually (except IE users with fonts set in PXs) can adjust
    the font size, but I will give an analogy of why "body != 100%" is bad.

    When you watch TV you set the volume to a level that is comfortable for
    *your* hearing. This may not be the same for everyone. It depending on
    preference and capabilities. Now here in the US, advertisers have a
    nasty habit of over compressing the audio on their commercials resulting
    a *dramatic* increase in overall volume level for the commercial in
    contrasted to the regular programs. Either you watch you program and
    then get blasted by the commercials, or turn it down for the commercials
    and then need closed captions to view the program! Yes you can keep
    adjusting the volume now with the power of the remote, which I do, but
    it is a pain! Rude ain't it?

    Well, that is what it like for browsers of the Internet when they have
    to adjust their text size up and down constantly (if they are savvy
    enough to realize that they can) as they go from site to site. But what
    usually happens when someone stumbles upon your site with microtext is
    they hit the back button.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 10, 2008
    #16
  17. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    > Knut Krueger wrote:
    >
    >> again the question to the fontsize,
    >> like fixed layout there are a rising pages with a default fontsise
    >> smaller than 100%
    >> I found most of that pages from uninversity.
    >> f.e http://www.cornell.edu/

    >
    > Most colleges and universities have horrible websites, but then again
    > the courses they teach in computer science department on web design
    > is usually of a ripe old mid-90s vintage or just plainly put "bad".


    From my local community college adult education courses:

    <quote>
    Creating Web Pages II

    Are you using HTML to its fullest potential? In this practical,
    project-oriented course, you'll discover how you can use tables to
    create fresh, innovative, and unconventional arrangements of text,
    colors and graphics. You'll become skilled at incorporating audio into
    your site, and you'll find out how frames can improve site navigation
    and turn otherwise drab pages into stunning works of art. Find out how
    to make your site more interactive through the use of forms, and learn
    how formatting your pages with Cascading Style Sheets can literally save
    you hours of time and effort.
    </quote>

    There are other courses with equally perplexing descriptions.

    But at least they have "modernized" somewhat. A couple of years ago, the
    basic web courses had a requirement that the student own a copy of
    FrontPage.

    --
    -bts
    -frames are stunning works of art
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 10, 2008
    #17
  18. Re: Fontsize 100%

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > <quote>
    > Creating Web Pages II
    >
    > Are you using HTML to its fullest potential? In this practical,
    > project-oriented course, you'll discover how you can use tables to
    > create fresh, innovative, and unconventional arrangements of text,
    > colors and graphics. You'll become skilled at incorporating audio into

    ...<snip>

    > There are other courses with equally perplexing descriptions.
    >
    > But at least they have "modernized" somewhat. A couple of years ago, the
    > basic web courses had a requirement that the student own a copy of
    > FrontPage.
    >


    OOOOOOO! Table layouts! Cutting edge!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 10, 2008
    #18
  19. Knut Krueger

    Neredbojias Guest

    Re: Fontsize 100%

    On 10 Mar 2008, Jonathan N. Little wrote:

    > Knut Krueger wrote:
    >> Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:
    >>
    >>> Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Please do not missunderstand me.
    >> I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
    >> layout is dominating the feeling of the users.

    >
    > Well a website is about communication, and if the user cannot read the
    > content... well?
    >
    > Yes, the user usually (except IE users with fonts set in PXs) can
    > adjust the font size, but I will give an analogy of why "body != 100%"
    > is bad.
    >
    > When you watch TV you set the volume to a level that is comfortable
    > for *your* hearing. This may not be the same for everyone. It
    > depending on preference and capabilities. Now here in the US,
    > advertisers have a nasty habit of over compressing the audio on their
    > commercials resulting
    > a *dramatic* increase in overall volume level for the commercial in
    > contrasted to the regular programs. Either you watch you program and
    > then get blasted by the commercials, or turn it down for the
    > commercials and then need closed captions to view the program! Yes you
    > can keep adjusting the volume now with the power of the remote, which
    > I do, but it is a pain! Rude ain't it?


    Great analogy and explanation. For my own tuppence, I can't stand
    commercials, anyway, and quit watching network tv at all sometime in the
    '80s. Now what do you think I do when I hit a web site with too small a
    font size?

    > Well, that is what it like for browsers of the Internet when they have
    > to adjust their text size up and down constantly (if they are savvy
    > enough to realize that they can) as they go from site to site. But
    > what usually happens when someone stumbles upon your site with
    > microtext is they hit the back button.


    A large part of the problem as Mr. Krueger explains it is the staid
    design approach of many so-called "cool" websites. Few designers are
    actually capable of designing a site effectively with 100% font size so
    we have what we have today. It's quite logical.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.com/
    Great sights and sounds
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 10, 2008
    #19
  20. Knut Krueger

    Knut Krueger Guest

    Re: Fontsize 100%

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty schrieb:

    > Sorry, that sentence does not translate well. Are you saying that using
    > *my* default font size is wrong?


    No not your default font size.
    The major problem is that websites are more a showroom for a
    presentation of a company than a medium to present information.

    And the sites are looking cool (Neredbojias thank you for the words)
    with small fontsize and they look antiquated with default size.

    The commercial aspect to present the research or the company is as
    important as the possibility to read the words.
    But the first view of the user is the layout means the site is a "cool
    site" or not.

    I changed one site p,ul,ol,li,div,td,th,address,blockquote from 92% back
    to 100% and one of the users which were familiar with the smaller fonts
    wrote me an email why I am using so big fonts now - terrible please
    change it ...
    I changed it back to 92%

    But the example of Cornell and many others are using fonts down to 75%

    But that`s OT
    Maybe the user will force the webdesigner to lower the default fontsize
    in the future


    Regards Knut
     
    Knut Krueger, Mar 10, 2008
    #20
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