<body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">

K

Knut Krueger

Hi to all,

whats the best way for that
<body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
without validation errors?
Rightmargin is not working with (normally I would use strict)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">
it is working with
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

but with validation errors for color value and rightmargin?

Regards Knut
 
E

Els

Knut said:
whats the best way for that
<body style=background-color:#FED501; rightmargin="0">
without validation errors?
Click to expand...

<body style="background-color:#FED501; margin-right:0;">

Pay attention to the " :)
 
J

Jukka K. Korpela

Scripsit Knut Krueger:
The same validation error http://www.briefwexl.at/index.php
Click to expand...

What? You did _not_ apply the suggestion that you quoted.

The markup is so confused that you should really restart from scratch,
using HTML 4.01 Strict and delegating presentational issues to CSS. And
don't forget to set text and link colors and background-image (usually
to none) when you set background-color.
 
K

Knut Krueger

Jukka said:
Scripsit Knut Krueger:


What? You did _not_ apply the suggestion that you quoted.
Click to expand...

uups sorry I moved the new file to the wrong webbpage ....

Knut
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Knut said:
uups sorry I moved the new file to the wrong webbpage ....
Click to expand...

You might also want to correct the CSS errors.

For example, removing the # where it doesn't belong:

#display: block;
# float: left;
# clear: left;
# margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 300px;

If the intent there was to comment them out, a CSS comment is:

/* display: block; */

Move the sans-serif to the end of the selection of font families.

And:
margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
margin-right: 0em;
margin-left: 0em;

can be written as: margin: 0;

Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
 
K

Knut Krueger

If the intent there was to comment them out, a CSS comment is:
Click to expand...

Thats terrible with the comments. I always struggle with the different
comments in R-Statistic, C, Pascal, HTML, CSS, PHP, CGI :-( I am using
all laguages sometimes all together at one day ...)
Move the sans-serif to the end of the selection of font families.
Click to expand...
And:
margin-top: 0em;
margin-bottom: 0em;
margin-right: 0em;
margin-left: 0em;

can be written as: margin: 0;
Click to expand...
I will change this if the page is ready but during building the page i
can change it more easy.
Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
Click to expand...

But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
Whats wrong if is not 100%?

I must discuss this with the owner of the page ...
Regards Knut
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Knut said:
[Beauregard wrote:] <-- please do not strip attributes
Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
Click to expand...

But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
Whats wrong if is not 100%?
Click to expand...

100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size. If you think it
looks too large in your browser, adjust your own default to something
comfortable for your eyes. In the meantime, allow your visitors to do
the same.
 
K

Knut Krueger

Beauregard said:
Knut said:
[Beauregard wrote:] <-- please do not strip attributes
Please set your content font size to 100%. See:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
Click to expand...
But If I would get the basic font smaller than default 100$ ?
Whats wrong if is not 100%?
Click to expand...

100% is *everyone's* default and preferred font size.
Click to expand...

I will try to convince them ...

It's always the problem between illustrator and web developing.
Most of them prefer a fixed layout, and on my screen I have about 60%
empty space if it is at fixed 1024*768. I feel that the amount of pages
with fixed layout is growing instead decreasing.

Knut
 
K

Knut Krueger

Hi to all,
again the question to the fontsize,
like fixed layout there are a rising pages with a default fontsise
smaller than 100%
I found most of that pages from uninversity.
f.e http://www.cornell.edu/

body {
font-family : verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size : 100%;
....
is 100% but they are not using the default very often, mostly small
sizes sizes.

Using the default fonsize makes the pages "old fashioned" - not only my
words - but the words of other useres

What the solution for that in your opinion.

Regards Knut
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Knut said:
Knut Krueger schrieb:
[Knut did not write the following line.]
Hi to all,
again the question to the fontsize,
like fixed layout there are a rising [number of] pages with a default
fontsise smaller than 100% I found most of that pages from
uninversity.
f.e http://www.cornell.edu/

body {
font-family : verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size : 100%;
...
is 100% but they are not using the default very often, mostly small
sizes sizes.
Click to expand...

Perhaps everyone who attends, or expects to attend, Cornell University
has better-than-perfect vision. I had to increase my browser's font size
to about 120% just to read the main content. At that point, the design
layout starts to fall apart.

The CSS for this site is overly-complicated, and a poor example.
Using the default fonsize makes the pages "old fashioned" - not only
my words - but the words of other useres

What the solution for that in your opinion.
Click to expand...

Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?
 
K

Knut Krueger

Beauregard said:
Tell those other useres how to adjust their own browsers?
Click to expand...

Please do not missunderstand me.
I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
layout is dominating the feeling of the users.
Perhaps everyone who attends, or expects to attend, Cornell University
has better-than-perfect vision.
Click to expand...
I was at nearly 200 University Homepages the last week, most of them
have very small fonts, and I hate them too.


The problem is that you are outside of the "society" if you are using
the 100% font. In the mind of lto of users your homepage looks outmoded.

Thats whate customers and users are telling you.

The question is what are you doing against those arguments..

Knut
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Knut said:
Please do not missunderstand me.
I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
layout is dominating the feeling of the users.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that sentence does not translate well. Are you saying that using
*my* default font size is wrong? For what degree of wrong?
I was at nearly 200 University Homepages the last week, most of them
have very small fonts, and I hate them too.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a common mistake, and not only among university web sites.
The problem is that you are outside of the "society" if you are using
the 100% font. In the mind of lto of users your homepage looks
outmoded.
Click to expand...

...but they can read it.
Thats whate customers and users are telling you.
Click to expand...

I have never had a visitor to any of my sites complain that the font
size was outmoded.
The question is what are you doing against those arguments..
Click to expand...

Me, personally? I'm doing nothing, other than using 100% for all
content, other than headings and footers.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Knut said:
again the question to the fontsize,
like fixed layout there are a rising pages with a default fontsise
smaller than 100%
I found most of that pages from uninversity.
f.e http://www.cornell.edu/
Click to expand...

Most colleges and universities have horrible websites, but then again
the courses they teach in computer science department on web design is
usually of a ripe old mid-90s vintage or just plainly put "bad".
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Knut said:
Please do not missunderstand me.
I try speak against intros, flashplayer fixed layout, but the "wrong"
layout is dominating the feeling of the users.
Click to expand...

Well a website is about communication, and if the user cannot read the
content... well?

Yes, the user usually (except IE users with fonts set in PXs) can adjust
the font size, but I will give an analogy of why "body != 100%" is bad.

When you watch TV you set the volume to a level that is comfortable for
*your* hearing. This may not be the same for everyone. It depending on
preference and capabilities. Now here in the US, advertisers have a
nasty habit of over compressing the audio on their commercials resulting
a *dramatic* increase in overall volume level for the commercial in
contrasted to the regular programs. Either you watch you program and
then get blasted by the commercials, or turn it down for the commercials
and then need closed captions to view the program! Yes you can keep
adjusting the volume now with the power of the remote, which I do, but
it is a pain! Rude ain't it?

Well, that is what it like for browsers of the Internet when they have
to adjust their text size up and down constantly (if they are savvy
enough to realize that they can) as they go from site to site. But what
usually happens when someone stumbles upon your site with microtext is
they hit the back button.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Jonathan said:
Most colleges and universities have horrible websites, but then again
the courses they teach in computer science department on web design
is usually of a ripe old mid-90s vintage or just plainly put "bad".
Click to expand...

From my local community college adult education courses:

<quote>
Creating Web Pages II

Are you using HTML to its fullest potential? In this practical,
project-oriented course, you'll discover how you can use tables to
create fresh, innovative, and unconventional arrangements of text,
colors and graphics. You'll become skilled at incorporating audio into
your site, and you'll find out how frames can improve site navigation
and turn otherwise drab pages into stunning works of art. Find out how
to make your site more interactive through the use of forms, and learn
how formatting your pages with Cascading Style Sheets can literally save
you hours of time and effort.
</quote>

There are other courses with equally perplexing descriptions.

But at least they have "modernized" somewhat. A couple of years ago, the
basic web courses had a requirement that the student own a copy of
FrontPage.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Beauregard said:
<quote>
Creating Web Pages II

Are you using HTML to its fullest potential? In this practical,
project-oriented course, you'll discover how you can use tables to
create fresh, innovative, and unconventional arrangements of text,
colors and graphics. You'll become skilled at incorporating audio into
Click to expand...
... said:
There are other courses with equally perplexing descriptions.

But at least they have "modernized" somewhat. A couple of years ago, the
basic web courses had a requirement that the student own a copy of
FrontPage.
Click to expand...

OOOOOOO! Table layouts! Cutting edge!
 
N

Neredbojias

Well a website is about communication, and if the user cannot read the
content... well?

Yes, the user usually (except IE users with fonts set in PXs) can
adjust the font size, but I will give an analogy of why "body != 100%"
is bad.

When you watch TV you set the volume to a level that is comfortable
for *your* hearing. This may not be the same for everyone. It
depending on preference and capabilities. Now here in the US,
advertisers have a nasty habit of over compressing the audio on their
commercials resulting
a *dramatic* increase in overall volume level for the commercial in
contrasted to the regular programs. Either you watch you program and
then get blasted by the commercials, or turn it down for the
commercials and then need closed captions to view the program! Yes you
can keep adjusting the volume now with the power of the remote, which
I do, but it is a pain! Rude ain't it?
Click to expand...

Great analogy and explanation. For my own tuppence, I can't stand
commercials, anyway, and quit watching network tv at all sometime in the
'80s. Now what do you think I do when I hit a web site with too small a
font size?
Well, that is what it like for browsers of the Internet when they have
to adjust their text size up and down constantly (if they are savvy
enough to realize that they can) as they go from site to site. But
what usually happens when someone stumbles upon your site with
microtext is they hit the back button.
Click to expand...

A large part of the problem as Mr. Krueger explains it is the staid
design approach of many so-called "cool" websites. Few designers are
actually capable of designing a site effectively with 100% font size so
we have what we have today. It's quite logical.
 
K

Knut Krueger

Beauregard said:
Sorry, that sentence does not translate well. Are you saying that using
*my* default font size is wrong?
Click to expand...

No not your default font size.
The major problem is that websites are more a showroom for a
presentation of a company than a medium to present information.

And the sites are looking cool (Neredbojias thank you for the words)
with small fontsize and they look antiquated with default size.

The commercial aspect to present the research or the company is as
important as the possibility to read the words.
But the first view of the user is the layout means the site is a "cool
site" or not.

I changed one site p,ul,ol,li,div,td,th,address,blockquote from 92% back
to 100% and one of the users which were familiar with the smaller fonts
wrote me an email why I am using so big fonts now - terrible please
change it ...
I changed it back to 92%

But the example of Cornell and many others are using fonts down to 75%

But that`s OT
Maybe the user will force the webdesigner to lower the default fontsize
in the future


Regards Knut
 

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