Borlang JBuilder gridbag layout madness

Discussion in 'Java' started by nukleus, Jan 31, 2007.

  1. nukleus

    nukleus Guest

    Finally, after waiting for three days for it to swap the
    Universe, I gathered enough courage to push that magic
    help button, trying to get an answer on why my buttons
    simply dissapear in run mode, while they are perfectly
    visible and of correct size in the design mode.

    Why by increasing some coefficients some GUI elements
    DECREASE their size?

    Why some of my text fields become even smaller than
    the Y size of the font?

    So...

    Here we go, the "explanation" from one of the leading
    players in the Java field, Borland...

    You just have to wait a couple of hours
    so that i could cut and paste the text directly
    from their "help" subsystem...

    :--}

    Ladies, Gents and assorted bio-robots,
    here is the holey word of Borland JBuilder:
    (The original text is idented)

    A component can completely fill up its display area

    [and we haven't even started yet.
    What OTHER areas does the component have?
    What DOES it mean a "display area" for a GUI element?
    Does it have some trans-galactic areas also?
    Hello, planet Mars.]

    (as with component "4" in the example above),
    or it can be smaller than its display area.

    Wut?

    Can any of the smart experts around here can
    please essplain to me how is it possible,
    even in principle, for something to have a smaller
    size than its "display area"?

    Then what IS this magic "display area" on the first place?

    WHat IS the difference between a button as a GUI element,
    and its "display area"?
    Are these people on drugs?

    Anybody has a clue what these "architects" are talking
    about? I just never heard of such things. Sorry.

    For example, in the following GridBagLayout container,
    the display area for component "3" consists of nine cells,
    three horizontally and three vertically.
    However, the component is smaller than the display area
    because it has insets which create a margin between the
    edges of the display area and the component

    Fine, we can swallow this much.
    But we are already wasting some time on this stupid lil thingy.

    Ok, and next?

    Even though this component has both horizontal and vertical
    fill constraints, since it also has insets on all four sides

    How can enlargement be called a constraint?
    Anybody has any clue?
    Constraint means limitation of scope.

    So, pretty much, from the second paragraph,
    we are asked to look at the world,
    standing upside down, and we haven't gotten
    a SINGLE piece of useful information so far.

    of the component (represented by the double blue nibs on each
    side of the display area),

    You know, mr. Borland, at this junction, the last thing
    i want to hear is this "double blue nibs", which is a
    completely insane trip on its own, cause i have a clue
    of what you are talking about. Just try to drag some of those
    lil square boxes. Your hair may stand up. Never seen anything
    like that. When you try to ENLARGE things, they become smaller.
    Sure, some super smart inter gallactic technology of suckology
    i guess.

    these take precedence over the fill constraints.

    WHO takes precedence over themselves?
    You are talking about those very fill constraints.
    Haven't you noticed?
    You must be smoking that strong grass from the
    Silicon Valley.

    Here is your first sentence:

    "Even though this component has both horizontal and vertical
    fill constraints"

    So, what are we talking about here again?

    Which constraints are taking a precedence over themselves again?

    Sorry, I can't grasp what you are talking about zo far.

    The result is

    The result of what?

    that the component only fills the display area

    Oh, thanks God!
    I was afraid its going to fill my entire room here.

    up to the insets.

    Oh yeah!
    Sure!
    If you are not going to touch those lil blue squares,
    and don't even think of touching those black lil squares,
    cause you puter may fry. And don't try to think that
    by dragging your window size to make it larger,
    it MUSt increase its size,
    just because you are dragging it to do so.
    You are simply unswivilized lil biorobot,
    thinking that if you add things the result becomes bigger.
    But not to worry. You'll learn how to see the world
    standing upside down.

    Fine.
    zo far,
    zo good.
    And then?

    If you try to make the component larger than its current
    display area,

    By doing what?
    By changing a sorce code?
    Or by dragging something on the GUI designer screen?

    GridBagLayout increases the size of the cells in the
    display area

    What is DISPLAY AREA?
    Display area of what?
    Do you mean the "display area" to be my puter's screen?
    Do you mean it to be the bother area of a stupid lil button?
    Do you mean the virtual, super-continental,
    fully "constrained", while at the same time, expanded
    something?

    Am i doing a graphical gui design
    or talking to a madman?

    to accommodate the new size of the component

    I mean are you people insane?
    Why do you need to put all these extra blabber words
    into something that OUGHT to be the simpliest thing
    imaginable.

    Why don't you say it like this:

    If you want to increase the size of you stupid lil
    button, just drag that lil blue square thing.

    Simple as that.

    You don't even have to say this stupid stuff
    you are saying, cause it ought to be simply
    obvious by the context of what you are doing.
    Do you have to tell people:

    If you want to walk, first, you have to lift
    your leg and than move it forward,
    and don't forget to put it back on the ground?

    Now, we are talking about the "display areas",
    and it isn't even clear if it is a button border
    boundary or your virtual and purely conceptual
    idea of some abstract "display area".

    and leaves space for the insets.

    Thanks God!

    Where does who leave what space?
    By doing what?
    It happens when?
    How do I enter that space?
    Where?
    When you modify your source code and that stupid
    annonymous thing you automatically generated?
    Or while you are dragging your button boundaries?

    A component can also be smaller than its display area

    How?

    How many joints did you smoke today?

    The component can not have size smaller than its
    "display area". It can ONLY be the size of that area.
    The "display area" you are talking about MUST be
    the grid bag constraint area for that particular cell,
    and if you are talking about a group of cells,
    than it can not be a component's display area,
    as, at that point, it isn't even clear what do you
    mean by "component".

    My table can not have smaller size than it actually
    has, regardless of your concept of "display area".

    How that area is defined on the first place?

    Are you familiar with the simpliest concepts
    of left, right, top and bottom margins,
    used by virtually any mortal on the planet Earth?

    Why do you need to invent this "display area" thing
    that it is not even clear what do you mean by that?

    when there are no insets,

    Uhu.
    Try to connect that with a previous sentence.
    You'll go nuts.

    Now, how can there be no insets,
    if i set those insets in your own dialog box?
    What happens to my insets parameters
    when i change what to what?

    Here is the beginning of your own sentence:

    "A component can also be smaller than its display area
    when there are no insets".

    Ok, but where did those insets go?
    Secondly, how can something become smaller
    than its "display area", when there are no margins?

    Are you on morphine, by ANY chance?

    Do you think people walk on their EARS?

    as with component "6" in the following example

    Well, if you look at that picture,
    your ear drums may be slighly popping.

    Even though the display area is only one cell,

    (This man must be obscessed with this magic "display area")

    there are no constraints that enlarge the component

    Huh?

    Does this suppose to actually mean something?

    beyond its minimum size.

    Fine. And where do i set the minimum size of it?
    You see, in your dialog box there isn't even a concept
    of a "minimu size" or "preferred size".
    There are only fill margins, and even that much isn't
    clear, cause those margins may or may not include the
    text X and Y size of the actual text that you want
    to be displayed as default in that component.
    Just try to change text of your button,
    and you'll see how, by some magic power, the button
    gets larger.

    So...
    Where do you enter that "minimum size"?
    You see, I am busy with all sorts of things
    up to my ears, and you are talking utter lunacy
    so far, and i have not a sligtest clue of what
    you are talking about.
    The things you claim exist, do not actually exist,
    at least in your own GUI design tools.
    And it is not clear which constraint parameters,
    that are not constraints on the first place,
    correspond to the minimal and preferred component sizes
    and how these things are rendered
    and what is relationship between the rendering
    size and the sizes you made while designing your frames.

    In my view, what you designed with a design tool,
    should look EXACTLY the same as when you run this
    code, which is not the case with your gadgets.
    When I design it, i see one thing,
    but when I execute the code, i see a TOTALLY
    different thing. Not only that, but some perfectly
    valid text fields, buttons, and you name it,
    simply dissapear, or become of a microscopic size.
    Why?
    What is the problem with all this stupid stuff
    on the first place?
    What kind of "technology" is this?

    In this case, the width of the display area is

    No wonder people go kill the innocent postmen!
    Hearing this "display area" trip about ten times
    in one sentence and not getting a SINGLE bit
    of useful information as to WHY in hell his
    buttons dissapear in run time, when they are
    perfectly visible and correct in design time,
    one may start thinking about greasing his
    good ole Colt 45.

    Why the hell is text fields are two microns in Y
    size? How can ANY text field in a world of anything,
    even remotely resembling sanity,
    be smaller than the size of a font?

    What kind of technology is this?
    How can you possibly make it smaller than
    the smallest thing there is, which is button
    label or text field text?

    WHERE did you learn this kind of "technology"?
    In a mad house?

    Sure, after reading all this "help",
    one may start thinking about his good ole Colt 45,
    sitting in his drawer, and about the first thing
    that comes to his mind, for some strange reason,
    is a postman!

    Wut?

    Yep, a POSTMAN!

    He wants to kill a postman,
    and not that sadist that created all this bloatware
    and all those "help" files.

    Why postman?

    Cause he can't get his hands on Willy's troath!

    determined by the larger components above

    Yup, Tell me about it.
    Just ten more times.
    Cause I feel bored like hell
    reading all this...

    Well...

    it in the same column.

    Hopefully.

    Component "6" is displayed at its minimum size,

    WHERE IS THAT MINIMUM SIZE SET?

    and since it is smaller than its display area,

    Jesus!
    Where is my gun?

    it is anchored at the west edge of the display area

    MAAAAAN!

    Ima gonna send a trans-continental-innerballistic,
    fully super-nukelar powered rocket of da biggest size
    there is to the places where you sit
    if i hear about this sub-idiotic "display area",
    not related to anything based in reality,
    one more time.

    with an anchor constraint.

    Uhu.
    And WHERE to you set that?

    As you can see,

    Yep.
    I am ALREADY seeing it.
    Holy ghost,
    holy ghost,
    anybody home?

    GridBagConstraints play a critical role in GridBagLayout.

    Yep, I do see that.
    Not only that, but they play a CRITICAL role
    in my personal life at this moment.

    Cause you are but a bunch of biorobots,
    brainwashed to oblivion, it seems.

    What planet are you from anyway?

    We'll look at these constraints

    What sucky constraints are you talking about?
    I haven't been able to connect a SINGLE word of
    yours to your own previous words.

    in detail in the next topic,

    Oh yes, I am sure of that.

    And then?

    "About GridBagConstraints".

    Hold on, you lil cockroach.
    Where is the information about da gridbags?

    What are you, a thief?

    That morphine is no good?

    I have waited for about three days
    till you swap da Universe itself,
    just to get "help" on this stupid lil thing
    you call gridbag, that should not be even mentioned
    in the modern technology of suckology,
    cause just about ALL you need to do,
    is click on things and drag their sizes,
    without even bothering about "constrains",
    that are not constrains on the first place,
    those "insets", which is a pile of horseshit,
    and of the lowest grade, as they are simply
    margins as known to mortals.

    I dont want to know about this "fill size" crap,
    which is about the sickest thing imaginable,
    as when you design things with your gui designer,
    you do not think of what is left after you type
    text into your button label or a text field.
    You think in terms of its size and proportions
    to other things in your design.

    And when you set something to 0,
    it means it does not exist,
    and when you set something to 1.0,
    it means that just about the only thing that exists
    is it. And when you reduce it from 1.0 to 0.9,
    you expect it to become smaller,
    and when you increase it from 0.0 to 0.1,
    you expect the opposite.

    Things like that.

    Why in hell do I have to bother about all this
    insanity even using the most "sophisticated"
    tools there are, as you claim?

    Why can't I simply drag and drop and forget about this thing?
    Why do I have to spend weeks on designing plain,
    ordinary GUI?

    Can't you just automatically generate the source
    code without even telling me all this crap?
    What is this farse about?

    WHERE IS THAT HELP YOU PROMISED ME?

    This utterly confused crap you call a description
    of one of the most complicated layout gadgets there are?

    And you expect to remain in business?
    For how long do you think?
    You are just a bunch of sadists.
    That is all.

    Nothing less.
    Nothing more...

    And you are not architects of ANY kind.
    My neighbor shue maker
    is a better architect then all of you combined.

    And you'd better take your technical writers
    off those heavy drugs.

    Summary: there isn't a single useful bit of information
    in all this "help" stuff.
    It isn't clea what is cell,
    what is button
    and what is what.

    Simple things are placed upside down.
    And description of one of the most complex things
    in layouts is virtually abscent.

    It is not clear what happens when you set
    the weights to 0 or 1.0.

    It isn't clear what happens when you set
    "Size padding" to N value, and what does that N
    value represent and how does it affect rendering.

    It isn't clear what happens when you enable
    X and Y fills and how does it affect rendering.

    In fact, there isn't even a SINGLE BIT of
    useful information that makes ANY sense
    in any world that even remotely resembles reality.

    Furthermore, when you try to compile that code,
    you may get an error message that your package
    name you declared in the beginning of your
    sorce file, does not exist! How could this possibly be?
    And even if it compiles, it may complain that
    it does not exist in the run time.
    But how did you compile it on the first place?
    Do the source files exist?
    Yup. They MUST be, otherwise you couln't compile.
    And if you finishe a compilation and claimed
    there are no errors, how come this thing
    does not run and you claim that the MAIN class
    does not even exist?
    I look at the source and it is there.
    I look at project configuration parameters
    and they are EXACTLY as you set in your own
    Welcome app.

    Zo...

    What am I supposed to do with this kind of
    "advanced technology", hailed by some as about
    the best thing there is under the Sun?

    How much you had to bribe those reviewers
    to write their ejaculating reviews about this crap?
    Or are they on a payroll?

    Zee ya.
    nukleus, Jan 31, 2007
    #1
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  2. On Jan 31, 11:07 am, (nukleus) wrote:
    > Finally, after waiting for three days for ...


    Finally, after waiting on severel threads for
    you to see some light on posting style, I
    will mention that..

    Few will wade through that tripe you posted,
    except for a laugh.

    But I will comment on one thing, in case
    you are having trouble understanding.***

    Do the Sun layout tutorial*, and most of what
    you seem** to be asking, will become clear.

    * instead of the damn IDE help - they are not
    generally geared to providing good layout
    tutorials, not with the Java Tutorial freely
    available.

    ** I could not be bothered reading beyond
    the first couple of pargraphs that you wrote.

    (medium snip)
    > What DOES it mean a "display area" for a GUI element?

    (*huge* snip)

    Run the example I posted on the other thread.
    All the JCheckBox's are in a single 'display area'
    that is formed by the panel they are added to.
    The JPanerl is the *display* *area* of the JCB's.

    Each JCheckBox has space around it, between
    it an JCB's beside, above and below it, as well
    as the sides of he JPanel.

    Resize the JFrame to see thow the JCB'c in the
    FlowLayout rewrap as required to fit the most JCB's
    in a row that will fit (with their padding) within the
    GUI.

    But please be clear that I am getting to the
    point where I will simply skim your posts.

    It seems as though your time would be better
    spent working through the layout tutorial,
    than drafting these long, rambling posts that
    people either do not read, or do not read carefully.

    Andrew T.
    Andrew Thompson, Jan 31, 2007
    #2
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  3. nukleus

    nukleus Guest

    In article <>, "Andrew Thompson" <> wrote:
    >On Jan 31, 11:07 am, (nukleus) wrote:
    >> Finally, after waiting for three days for ...


    >Few will wade through that tripe you posted,
    >except for a laugh.


    And that what it is meant for.

    >But I will comment on one thing, in case
    >you are having trouble understanding.***


    Yes I do.

    >Do the Sun layout tutorial*, and most of what
    >you seem** to be asking, will become clear.


    Thanks. That is what I realized I have to do.
    There is just no way around. I am too deep
    in all this jazz.

    >* instead of the damn IDE help - they are not
    >generally geared to providing good layout
    >tutorials, not with the Java Tutorial freely
    >available.


    >** I could not be bothered reading beyond
    >the first couple of pargraphs that you wrote.


    Thats up to you of course.
    The whole thing was just to illustrate
    the very language used in these "help" manuals.

    >(medium snip)
    >> What DOES it mean a "display area" for a GUI element?

    >(*huge* snip)


    >Run the example I posted on the other thread.
    >All the JCheckBox's are in a single 'display area'
    >that is formed by the panel they are added to.
    >The JPanerl is the *display* *area* of the JCB's.


    >Each JCheckBox has space around it, between
    >it an JCB's beside, above and below it, as well
    >as the sides of he JPanel.


    >Resize the JFrame to see thow the JCB'c in the
    >FlowLayout rewrap as required to fit the most JCB's
    >in a row that will fit (with their padding) within the
    >GUI.


    >But please be clear that I am getting to the
    >point where I will simply skim your posts.


    What to do? Such is life.

    >It seems as though your time would be better
    >spent working through the layout tutorial,
    >than drafting these long, rambling posts that
    >people either do not read, or do not read carefully.


    I was thinking that actually studying that
    tuturial is just about the only thing left.

    >Andrew T.
    >
    nukleus, Jan 31, 2007
    #3
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