Browser behaviour

W

WebMaster

C.W. said:
C.W. said:
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
WebMaster wrote:

[snip]
Later that day, when they are finished browsing, they *might* find
your site still in that hidden window. That is ... if they didn't
just
reach over and turn off the power.

[1] Unfortunately, this even includes people (programmers, sysops,
bosses) in the IT department of the company I recently retired from.
The sales and clerical staff was even worse.

as I pointed out in other posts, if you don't learn something so easy
like that after it happenend once (or, okay, a few times), well, then
you probably lost your brain somewhere...

Depends on if the fault lays at the user beign felt "inadequate" or
"lacking a clue or two" when the person behind the said site set a
pop-up window to a specific size - particularly 800 x 600 in hopes of
covering at least one screen size.

This would not be readily "as apparent" if the user had their browser
originally open to 800 x 600 unless they looked at the tool bar on
their desktop. If they had more than just their browser open this may
not have it apparent, even iwth the toolbar, at first glance that
another application [a new browser window] was open.

If the pop-up had been sized to being something like 350 x 350 then I
could agree with the argumentation attempt of the user being the one
totally clueless.

I can go along with that, isofar that it is possible to overlook the fact
that a new window is opened. After all, we are only human. But, if, for
instance, you try the backbutton, and it doesn't seem to work, that should
put your mind back in gear, no? Even if you are an inexperienced user, you
should notice that the original site is still open when you close the new
window. That also should ring a bell somewhere.

All the inexperienced user will notice is that the original site is
still open but that may not explain to them that a full screen pop-up
was the fault for that extra window still being open.

And then maybe not the first
time, but the fifth or so should at least make you wonder... And then again,
there is also the toolbar, as you pointed out. I agree with your arguments
there too, but then again, it is an extra signal. You may miss it once, or
twice, but if you never see it, then maybe a checkup of your eyes is
needed...

Everyone is on a different level of "expertise" on the Web. Some
people may look at the toolbar while surfing - some may only look it
periodically - while others may not give it a second thought.

You may be trying to use your own surfing habits as a basis for how
other people "should" react. That may be partial fault of the
argumentation of the user being the one at fault for not picking up
that a pop-up window had been triggered.

Recall the pop-up in question uses a common resolution size [800 x
600] so is meant to present a 'full page' of information ... that
information is presented by the user clicking on a link that triggers
the said pop-up window. All the user may know is that they clicked on
a link offered and had a page of info appear, but not pick up on it
covering the original page.

If using the thought of an inexperienced user - then that user may not
even try using the BACK function but look for a link... if none is
provided to help them return 'from whence they came' then that reduces
the number of clues given to them about that new page being a new
browser window. In a tabbed browser it may not be as apparent either.
Then one should recall the pop-under [generally used for ads but not
100% of the time] of all various sizes that people did not always
realize were triggered since they loaded 'under' the other windows.
All they know is somewhere along the line a pop-under had been
triggered - and, if using pop-up blocking software, that maybe one
just somehow 'got past' their program.

The flaw in the argumentation attempt of the 'user' being the one
where fault lays at [for not picking up on a new window being opened]
is the notion that the user of the site should be the one keeping
their eyes peeled for new tabs or windows or the BACK button not
'highlighting' for their ease in using the said site. Which the
presented argumentations about "users" lacking a clue is only trying
to shift the blame from the person behind the site, and how they opted
to present content to those users, and nothing more than that -
particularly if the site is not trying to target just the
"experienced" or "knowledgeable" web user.

Sorry, but the user is not always the person where one can point to
as where the fault lies; and then there is that phrase about when you
point to someone else as to being the one at fault [in this case, the
user of a site] ... remember that at least three fingers are pointing
back to yourself [the person responsible for how the content was
presented to that user].

Like I said, if the user-activated pop-up window had been set to a
much smaller size [so more obvious] - then that would been something I
considered on my side. In this instance, the person wanted to present
a full page [at least 800 x 600] of content via a pop-up and I see no
harm in the person in being warned about considering other
alternatives - especially if presenting content that way to help guide
users into making a purchase.


I can follow your argumentation, and I do agree with most of it. Still,
I'm convinced that most people are smart enough to see popups, at least
after having had some experience. Even a full screen popup. Those with
less experience will learn it. Those who don't manage that, well... not
everyone is fit to make, say, a good medical doctor or an architect
either...

As someone else here pointed out, it is a common practice, and it is
not the work of the devil (nice way to put it) :)

And I do not mind the pointing out of alternatives. What I do mind is
the general "I know best, I'm the specialist" attitude of some people
in this group (although I'm even willing to grant to some of them that
they do know a lot). Oh well, my writings won't change that :)
Rudy
 
W

WebMaster

Beauregard said:
Way ahead of you. Already did that, to no avail. Big red arrows drawn
on the pages...

"Type it HERE <red>------></red>" No joy.

Hm, still convinced he will get it sooner or later :)
I wish you luck in your educational quest :)
Rudy

 

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