browser list

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Jeff Thies, Jun 26, 2004.

  1. Jeff Thies

    Jeff Thies Guest

    Anyone have a list of modern browsers that are in circulation?

    Any that aren't in the Moz, IE, Safarai, Opera?
    family?

    Any that don't support javascript DOM manipulation?

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Thies, Jun 26, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jeff Thies

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <PoiDc.28902$>,
    says...
    > Anyone have a list of modern browsers that are in circulation?
    > Any that aren't in the Moz, IE, Safarai, Opera?
    > family?
    > Any that don't support javascript DOM manipulation?


    I forget the thread, but Toby listed all the ones he has, and it was a
    pretty extensive list.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 26, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jeff Thies

    Dylan Parry Guest

    Jeff Thies wrote:

    > Anyone have a list of modern browsers that are in circulation?


    Try: http://www.download.com/sort/3150-2356-0-1-1.html?

    They have just about every browser under the sun! 114 in total. Okay, so
    most of them probably have 1 person sitting in dark room as their user
    base, and a lot I imagine are MSIE in disguise, but it does give you an
    idea just how many browsers there are :)

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://www.webpageworkshop.co.uk - FREE Web tutorials and references
     
    Dylan Parry, Jun 26, 2004
    #3
  4. Whitecrest wrote:

    > I forget the thread, but Toby listed all the ones he has, and it was a
    > pretty extensive list.


    Here's what I have, as a pipe-seperated table:

    OS|Browser|Screen|Release Year|Rendering Engine|Key Browser?|Computer
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Amaya (GTK) 7.0|1280x1024x24|2002|Other||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Cello 1.01a|1024x768x24|1994|Other||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Dillo 0.8.0pre|1280x1024x24|2003|Other||ophelia
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|ELinks 0.9.1|80x24x4|2003|Text||ophelia
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Epiphany 1.0.7|1280x1024x24|2003|Gecko||ophelia
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Galeon 1.3.12|1280x1024x24|2003|Gecko||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|HotJava 3.0|1024x768x24|1999|Other||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 1|Internet Explorer 2.0|640x320x8|1995|Trident||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 1|Internet Explorer 3.02|640x320x8|1996|Trident||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 3|Internet Explorer 4.01|800x600x24|1997|Trident||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Internet Explorer 5.01|800x600x24|1998|Trident|key|polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Internet Explorer 5.5|800x600x24|2000|Trident|key|polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Internet Explorer 6.0|1024x768x24|2001|Trident|key|polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 9.2)|Konqueror 3.1.4|1024x768x24|2003|KHTML|key|polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Links 2.1pre13|80x24x4|2003|Text||ophelia
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Lynx 2.8.5|80x24x4|2004|Text|key|ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mosaic 0.6 Beta|1024x768x24|1992|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mosaic 1.0|1024x768x24|1993|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mosaic 2.1.1|1024x768x24|1996|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mosaic 3.0|1024x768x24|1997|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mozilla 1.0.2|1024x768x24|2002|Gecko||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 9.2)|Mozilla 1.4|1024x768x24|2003|Gecko|key|polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Mozilla 1.6|1280x1024x24|2004|Gecko||ophelia
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Mozilla Firebird 0.6.1|1280x1024x24|2003|Gecko||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Mozilla Firefox 0.8|1024x768x24|2004|Gecko||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Nautilus 2.4.2|1280x1024x24|2003|GtkHTML||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 1.1|1024x768x24|1995|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 2.02|1024x768x24|1996|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 3.04 Gold|1024x768x24|1996|Mosaic||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Netscape 4.8|1280x1024x24|1997|Mosaic||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 4.8|1024x768x24|2002|Mosaic|key|polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 6.23|1024x768x24|2002|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 7.1|1024x768x24|2003|Mosaic||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|OffByOne 3.4.a|1024x768x24|2002|Other||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 2.12|1024x768x24|1997|Opera||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 3.62|1024x768x24|1999|Opera||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 5.12|1024x768x24|2000|Opera||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 6.06|1024x768x24|2001|Opera||polonius
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 7.03|1024x768x24|2003|Presto|key|polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 9.2)|Opera 7.23|1024x768x24|2003|Presto||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|Opera 7.5|1280x1024x24|2004|Presto||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|UdiWWW 1.2.000|1024x768x24|1996|Other||polonius
    Linux (Mandrake 10.0)|w3m 0.4.2|80x24x4|2003|Text||ophelia
    Windows NT 4 SP 6|WebTV Viewer 2.8|1024x768x24|2003|Other||polonius

    Almost all of the above can be downloaded from http://browsers.evolt.org/

    I also have Opera 7.51 for Linux and Dillo 0.7.3 at work. On top of what I
    have, other browsers that I'd *like* to have in my arsenal are a few
    Mac-only browsers (e.g. IE/mac, Safari, iCab) and a few paid browsers that
    I've not gotten round to buying (e.g. HPR).

    I also have the source code for Arena, which is Amaya's predecessor, and
    for Tim Berners Lee's original WWW browser (which apparently won't compile
    on any modern operating system)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Jun 26, 2004
    #4
  5. Jeff Thies

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:21:14 +0100, Toby A Inkster
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 6.23|1024x768x24|2002|Mosaic||polonius
    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 7.1|1024x768x24|2003|Mosaic||polonius


    And there I was thinking NS6+ was Gecko...

    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 2.12|1024x768x24|1997|Opera||polonius
    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 3.62|1024x768x24|1999|Opera||polonius
    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 5.12|1024x768x24|2000|Opera||polonius
    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 6.06|1024x768x24|2001|Opera||polonius
    > Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 7.03|1024x768x24|2003|Presto|key|polonius


    Opera didn't start using Presto until v7? Or they just changed the name?

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Jun 28, 2004
    #5
  6. Jeff Thies

    Steve Pugh Guest

    Mark Parnell <> wrote:
    >On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:21:14 +0100, Toby A Inkster
    ><> declared in alt.html:
    >
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 2.12|1024x768x24|1997|Opera||polonius
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 3.62|1024x768x24|1999|Opera||polonius
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 5.12|1024x768x24|2000|Opera||polonius
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 6.06|1024x768x24|2001|Opera||polonius
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Opera 7.03|1024x768x24|2003|Presto|key|polonius

    >
    >Opera didn't start using Presto until v7? Or they just changed the name?


    Opera 7 is a whole new engine, called Presto.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Jun 28, 2004
    #6
  7. Jeff Thies

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:25:00 +0100, Steve Pugh <> declared
    in alt.html:

    > Opera 7 is a whole new engine, called Presto.


    That's what I was wondering. Thanks.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Jun 28, 2004
    #7
  8. Mark Parnell wrote:

    > On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:21:14 +0100, Toby A Inkster
    > <> declared in alt.html:
    >
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 6.23|1024x768x24|2002|Mosaic||polonius
    >> Windows NT 4 SP 6|Netscape 7.1|1024x768x24|2003|Mosaic||polonius

    >
    > And there I was thinking NS6+ was Gecko...


    Silly me.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Jun 28, 2004
    #8
  9. One (possibly stupid) question: If my pages look perfect on a browser using
    engine X, can I assume that it will look perfect on any browser using engine
    X?
     
    Thomas Mlynarczyk, Jul 2, 2004
    #9
  10. Jeff Thies

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <cc36qb$4q2$06$-online.com>, blue_elephant55
    @hotmail.com says...
    > One (possibly stupid) question: If my pages look perfect on a browser using
    > engine X, can I assume that it will look perfect on any browser using engine
    > X?


    No, depending on my settings I can make it look different on the same
    machine using the same browser.

    Now if the question was can I assume it looks "pretty much" the same
    on the overwhelming majority of the people that visit, then the
    answer is yes.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jul 2, 2004
    #10
  11. Jeff Thies

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "Whitecrest" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <cc36qb$4q2$06$-online.com>, blue_elephant55
    > @hotmail.com says...
    > > One (possibly stupid) question: If my pages look perfect on a browser

    using
    > > engine X, can I assume that it will look perfect on any browser using

    engine
    > > X?

    >
    > No, depending on my settings I can make it look different on the same
    > machine using the same browser.
    >
    > Now if the question was can I assume it looks "pretty much" the same
    > on the overwhelming majority of the people that visit, then the
    > answer is yes.


    But only if coded to the standards. A page may look perfectly fine with
    browser X if it depends on that browser's quirks, but may break badly on
    another browser. A page that is coded to the standards is more likely to be
    rendered as expected on other browsers.

    Even so, this does not mean that you should not test with other browsers: a
    good test suite is essential.
     
    C A Upsdell, Jul 2, 2004
    #11
  12. Thomas Mlynarczyk wrote:

    > One (possibly stupid) question: If my pages look perfect on a browser using
    > engine X, can I assume that it will look perfect on any browser using engine
    > X?


    No, you can't assume that. You must take into account that different
    browsers using the same rendering engine:

    1. might use different *versions* of the rendering engine
    (Netscape 6.0 uses a very early version of Gecko, so it's not
    always going to behave the same as the latest Moz;

    2. might make slight changes to the underlying code of the rendering
    engine (Firefox has some subtle differences from the main branch
    of Gecko); and

    3. may rely on underlying operating system functions so will vary
    from OS to OS (e.g. form controls on Safari and Konqueror. Fonts
    in Opera 7.5 on Linux vs Windows)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Jul 2, 2004
    #12
  13. Also sprach Toby A Inkster:

    > different
    > browsers using the same rendering engine:
    >
    > 1. might use different *versions* of the rendering engine
    > (Netscape 6.0 uses a very early version of Gecko, so it's not
    > always going to behave the same as the latest Moz;
    >
    > 2. might make slight changes to the underlying code of the rendering
    > engine (Firefox has some subtle differences from the main branch
    > of Gecko); and
    >
    > 3. may rely on underlying operating system functions so will vary
    > from OS to OS (e.g. form controls on Safari and Konqueror. Fonts
    > in Opera 7.5 on Linux vs Windows)


    Thanks Toby. So the same engine (on the same OS) merely makes it more likely
    that the output will be the same.
     
    Thomas Mlynarczyk, Jul 2, 2004
    #13
  14. Also sprach C A Upsdell:

    > Even so, this does not mean that you should not test with other
    > browsers: a good test suite is essential.


    How's that for a test suite (on Windows 98SE, 2000 and XP):

    NN4.76
    NN6
    NN7
    Moz1.1
    Moz1.6
    OP5
    OP6
    OP7beta1
    OP7beta2
    IE4
    IE5.0
    IE5.5
    IE6.0
    Amaya
    Lynx

    and iCapture for Screenshots from Safari. (Pages validate as HTML 4.01
    Strict.)

    Anything essential missing? (Except for non-Windows browsers, of course, but
    here things get complicated...)
     
    Thomas Mlynarczyk, Jul 2, 2004
    #14
  15. Jeff Thies

    C A Upsdell Guest

    "Thomas Mlynarczyk" <> wrote in message
    news:cc4for$217$04$-online.com...
    > Also sprach C A Upsdell:
    >
    > > Even so, this does not mean that you should not test with other
    > > browsers: a good test suite is essential.

    >
    > How's that for a test suite (on Windows 98SE, 2000 and XP):
    >
    > NN4.76
    > NN6
    > NN7
    > Moz1.1
    > Moz1.6
    > OP5
    > OP6
    > OP7beta1
    > OP7beta2
    > IE4
    > IE5.0
    > IE5.5
    > IE6.0
    > Amaya
    > Lynx
    >
    > and iCapture for Screenshots from Safari. (Pages validate as HTML 4.01
    > Strict.)
    >
    > Anything essential missing? (Except for non-Windows browsers, of course,

    but
    > here things get complicated...)


    If you're going to test with NN4, you should also use 4.08 (a lot of NN4
    people use this), and you may want to consider testing with NN4.80 rather
    than 4.79.

    Opera 7.51 is available.

    And of course there is the MSN-TV (WebTV) emulator for Windows.

    See http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/find.htm to find these.
     
    C A Upsdell, Jul 2, 2004
    #15
  16. Jeff Thies

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Thomas Mlynarczyk" <> wrote:

    >How's that for a test suite (on Windows 98SE, 2000 and XP):
    >
    >OP7beta1
    >OP7beta2


    Testing in old betas is pointless, any user who continues to use beta
    software after a full release is out has to expect to take the rough
    with the smooth.

    Testing in betas for versions that aren't yet released is tricky - are
    you seeing a real problem or one that will be fixed in the full
    release?

    Opera is up 7.51, test in that.
    If you want to test in more than one 7.x version I'd recommend 7.23.
    If you really want to test to excess than add 7.11 and a 7.03.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Jul 2, 2004
    #16
  17. Jeff Thies

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <OBgFc.119$>,
    cupsdell0311XXX@- says...
    > > Now if the question was can I assume it looks "pretty much" the same
    > > on the overwhelming majority of the people that visit, then the
    > > answer is yes.

    > But only if coded to the standards. A page may look perfectly fine with
    > browser X if it depends on that browser's quirks, but may break badly on
    > another browser. A page that is coded to the standards is more likely to be
    > rendered as expected on other browsers.


    Well again yes and no, I agree the more standards you follow the
    better your chances of it performing the same way on multiple
    browsers, but from another thread look at www.target.com. By no means
    does that follow any standards, but it looks the same on the majority
    of the worlds browsers.

    > Even so, this does not mean that you should not test with other browsers: a
    > good test suite is essential.


    Unless the client needs additional testing we test on IE and Mozilla,
    and more often than not, Opera. The overwhelming majority of the
    world uses one of these. And should issues arise we fix them in that
    same order.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jul 3, 2004
    #17
  18. Whitecrest wrote:

    > I agree the more standards you follow the better your chances of it
    > performing the same way on multiple browsers,


    Who are you and what have you done with the real Whitecrest? ;-)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Jul 3, 2004
    #18
  19. Also sprach C A Upsdell:

    > If you're going to test with NN4, you should also use 4.08 (a lot of
    > NN4 people use this), and you may want to consider testing with
    > NN4.80 rather than 4.79.


    Are the differences between those 3 version that important? If I write a
    special style sheet for NN4, avoiding anything that is supposed to cause
    problems with NN4 in general?

    > And of course there is the MSN-TV (WebTV) emulator for Windows.


    Ah, yes, once I had that one installed and for some reason I didn't quite
    like it. How important is testing on MSN-TV?

    > See http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/find.htm to find these.


    Thanks, I will have a look there.
     
    Thomas Mlynarczyk, Jul 3, 2004
    #19
  20. Also sprach Steve Pugh:

    >> OP7beta1
    >> OP7beta2

    >
    > Testing in old betas is pointless, any user who continues to use beta
    > software after a full release is out has to expect to take the rough
    > with the smooth.


    When I installed the betas, they were the latest things available :) Time
    for an update, I guess. But then: if my page is valid, if it displays okay
    on "all" the other browsers and in the OPbeta - can't I be quite sure it
    will be okay in the "real" version too? I suppose if anything is to be
    changed in the beta before it becomes the final release, then it should be
    fixing bugs and if my page does not rely on bugs...?

    > Testing in betas for versions that aren't yet released is tricky - are
    > you seeing a real problem or one that will be fixed in the full
    > release?


    No, so far I couldn't see any real problem.

    > Opera is up 7.51, test in that.
    > If you want to test in more than one 7.x version I'd recommend 7.23.
    > If you really want to test to excess than add 7.11 and a 7.03.


    Do Opera users usually update to have the latest version? Shouldn't I rather
    use the "most commonly used" version? Do I still need to worry about OP<5?
     
    Thomas Mlynarczyk, Jul 3, 2004
    #20
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