Browser Testing

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Don G, Mar 2, 2005.

  1. Don G

    Don G Guest

    I currently have IE6 and Firefox installed on my machine, and I switch
    between the two when testing web sites I am working on. It is my
    understanding that IE5 is still pretty common. Is this correct? Should
    I be testing my web site with IE5 as well? If so, does anyone know
    where I might be able to download a copy? Is it possible to install IE5
    on a machine with IE6?

    I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's
    own quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit
    installing one or more additional alternate browsers? If so, which
    browser(s) would you recommend testing with?

    Thanks,

    Don
     
    Don G, Mar 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:04:50 -0500, Don G wrote:

    > I currently have IE6 and Firefox installed on my machine, and I switch
    > between the two when testing web sites I am working on. It is my
    > understanding that IE5 is still pretty common. Is this correct? Should
    > I be testing my web site with IE5 as well? If so, does anyone know
    > where I might be able to download a copy? Is it possible to install IE5
    > on a machine with IE6?
    >
    > I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's
    > own quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit
    > installing one or more additional alternate browsers? If so, which
    > browser(s) would you recommend testing with?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Don


    If you do a google search for ie5setup, you should be able to find it
    quite easily. I don't know how to, or even if it is possible to install
    the two side by side.

    I use Konqueror in linux, I don't think there is a windows version of it.
    Opera is an idea that is available for windows.

    Carolyn
     
    Carolyn Marenger, Mar 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:04:50 -0500, Don G <> wrote:

    [Users with IE5 for Windows still common; browser questions]

    Don't know about that bit, but no doubt other people do


    > I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's own
    > quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit installing one or
    > more additional alternate browsers? If so, which browser(s) would you
    > recommend testing with?


    I can greatly recommend Opera[1]. Not only is it _the_ most standards compliant
    browser for Windows afaik, it also gives you a box full of 'browsers' to play
    with. It has all sort of views, like emulating a text browser or a browser with
    large letters or high contrast.


    [1]Not affiliated with them in any way; just a happy user.


    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Mar 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Don G

    saz Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:04:50 -0500, Don G wrote:
    >
    > > I currently have IE6 and Firefox installed on my machine, and I switch
    > > between the two when testing web sites I am working on. It is my
    > > understanding that IE5 is still pretty common. Is this correct? Should
    > > I be testing my web site with IE5 as well? If so, does anyone know
    > > where I might be able to download a copy? Is it possible to install IE5
    > > on a machine with IE6?
    > >
    > > I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's
    > > own quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit
    > > installing one or more additional alternate browsers? If so, which
    > > browser(s) would you recommend testing with?
    > >
    > > Thanks,
    > >
    > > Don

    >
    > If you do a google search for ie5setup, you should be able to find it
    > quite easily. I don't know how to, or even if it is possible to install
    > the two side by side.
    >
    > I use Konqueror in linux, I don't think there is a windows version of it.
    > Opera is an idea that is available for windows.
    >
    > Carolyn
    >

    If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I was
    given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my sites
    were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.
     
    saz, Mar 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Don G

    Don G Guest

    > If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I was
    > given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my sites
    > were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.


    Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the
    rendering for the same program would be different between the Mac and
    the PC version.

    Don
     
    Don G, Mar 2, 2005
    #5
  6. Don G

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Don G <> writing
    in news:422623a0$:

    >> If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I
    >> was given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my
    >> sites were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.

    >
    > Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the
    > rendering for the same program would be different between the Mac and
    > the PC version.
    >
    > Don
    >


    Because they are two completely different operating systems. There are
    some things that IE Mac supports the IE Win does not, and vice versa.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne, Mar 2, 2005
    #6
  7. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:34:26 -0500, Don G <> wrote:

    >> If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I was
    >> given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my sites were
    >> when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.

    >
    > Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the rendering for
    > the same program would be different between the Mac and the PC version.
    >


    Well, what if it is _not_ the same program?


    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Mar 2, 2005
    #7
  8. Don G

    Don G Guest

    > I can greatly recommend Opera[1]. Not only is it _the_ most standards
    > compliant browser for Windows afaik, ...


    How different is Opera's rendering from Firefox's? I am just getting
    started, so I would like to keep things as simple as possible for the
    time being. If the differences are significant, then I will need to
    check it out though.

    > ... it also gives you a box full of 'browsers' to play with. It has all
    > sort of views, like emulating a text browser or a browser with large
    > letters or high contrast.


    These sounds like an interesting and useful features. I might end up
    checking Opera out just for these features.

    Thanks,

    Don
     
    Don G, Mar 2, 2005
    #8
  9. Don G

    Tim Guest

    Tim, Mar 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Don G

    Don G Guest

    > Well, what if it is _not_ the same program?

    I guess this might very well be the case. I assumed that IE for Mac was
    simply a port of IE for Windows. If that was the case, then the core of
    the program would be the same, and only the parts specific to the
    operating system would be different. I don't really know anything about
    programming for Mac and Windows, so I don't know if this is really doable.

    Don
     
    Don G, Mar 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Don G

    Nico Schuyt Guest

    Don G wrote:
    > I currently have IE6 and Firefox installed on my machine, and I switch
    > between the two when testing web sites I am working on. It is my
    > understanding that IE5 is still pretty common. Is this correct?


    http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2005/February/browser.php (like most
    statistics not so reliable :)

    > Should I be testing my web site with IE5 as well? If so, does anyone
    > know where I might be able to download a copy? Is it possible to
    > install IE5 on a machine with IE6?


    Yes (I have IE4, 5.01, 5.5 and 6 on my Win PC). Read:
    http://labs.insert-title.com/labs/article795.aspx and/or
    http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2003/11/06/ie_x_3/index.php

    > I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's
    > own quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit
    > installing one or more additional alternate browsers? If so, which
    > browser(s) would you recommend testing with?


    IE 5.5 and 6; Firefox, Opera and Lynx (or Lynxviewer on
    http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html)

    --
    Nico
    http://www.nicoschuyt.nl
     
    Nico Schuyt, Mar 2, 2005
    #11
  12. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:39:32 -0500, Don G <> wrote:

    >> I can greatly recommend Opera[1]. Not only is it _the_ most standards
    >> compliant browser for Windows afaik, ...

    >
    > How different is Opera's rendering from Firefox's?


    Very. :)

    Just kidding. Their rendering is mostly alike. The difference is largely that
    Opera does more than FireFox, like correct rendering of the :before and :after
    pseudo selectors. There are differences also (like the use of padding on lists
    by FireFox, which neither Opera or IE use).

    > I am just getting started, so I would like to keep things as simple as
    > possible for the time being. If the differences are significant, then I will
    > need to check it out though.


    With Opera being the superior Windows browser as far as conformaty to standards
    goes, you do yourself a favour using _it_ to be your first browser for testing.
    If a page is well written en has a good use of CSS and works fine in Opera,
    chances are, it will work in most anything. Anything except IE for Windows that
    is. For that silly old thing you will have to add a few hacks to you css.

    >> ... it also gives you a box full of 'browsers' to play with. It has all
    >> sort of views, like emulating a text browser or a browser with large
    >> letters or high contrast.

    >
    > These sounds like an interesting and useful features. I might end up checking
    > Opera out just for these features.


    <http://www.opera.com/download/> :-D


    --
    ,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
    | weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
    | webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
    |zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
    `-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Mar 2, 2005
    #12
  13. Don G wrote:
    >> If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I
    >> was given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my
    >> sites were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.

    >
    > Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the
    > rendering for the same program would be different between the Mac and
    > the PC version.


    Because it's not the same program. It's a Mac program and a Windows
    program both of which Microsoft labelzed "Internet Explorer".
     
    Harlan Messinger, Mar 2, 2005
    #13
  14. On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:04:50 -0500, Don G <> wrote:

    >I currently have IE6 and Firefox installed on my machine, and I switch
    >between the two when testing web sites I am working on. It is my
    >understanding that IE5 is still pretty common. Is this correct? Should
    >I be testing my web site with IE5 as well?


    Depends a bit on what your site is, but probably for now, yes. At least
    to make sure the site is readable. I wouldn't worry about getting the
    layout beautiful. Note that 5.5 and 5.0 are rather different. 5.0 makes
    a pig's ear of CSS, 5.5 manages to get a bit more of it right.

    But note also that there is no single browser called IE 6.0. There is a
    host of browsers calling themselves IE 6.0, all with a different set of
    bugs. I've had a page which looked fine in my copy of IE 6.0 display two
    different bugs in the browsers used by two colleagues, both of which
    also claimed to be IE 6.0.

    >If so, does anyone know
    >where I might be able to download a copy?


    http://browsers.evolt.org/

    > Is it possible to install IE5 on a machine with IE6?


    According to Microsoft no, but some genius did find a way of doing it,
    and I've got IE 6, IE 5.5 and IE 5.0 all on my machine. Unfortunately
    I've now lost the link to the method of doing it, but a bit of googling
    on the c.i.w.a.* hierarchy should find it.

    >I know that there are many browsers out there, and that each has it's
    >own quirks, but are the differences significant enough to merit
    >installing one or more additional alternate browsers?


    Yes.

    >If so, which
    >browser(s) would you recommend testing with?


    Opera; if possible Safari on the Mac. At least one text browser, though
    you could use one of the Opera styles which does a good imitation of
    that. I suspect IE 5.2 on the Mac can probably be ignored by now, but I
    could be wrong.

    If wide readability is important to you, you probably should check the
    site is readable in Netscape 4, which still clings on in certain corners
    of the Web, but don't bother about making it look good there. That way
    lies madness.

    --
    Stephen Poley

    http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
     
    Stephen Poley, Mar 2, 2005
    #14
  15. On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Don G wrote:

    > I assumed that IE for Mac was simply a port of IE for Windows.


    Absolutely not. Totally independent implementation.
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Mar 2, 2005
    #15
  16. Stephen Poley wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:04:50 -0500, Don G <> wrote:
    >
    > According to Microsoft no, but some genius did find a way of doing it,
    > and I've got IE 6, IE 5.5 and IE 5.0 all on my machine. Unfortunately
    > I've now lost the link to the method of doing it, but a bit of googling
    > on the c.i.w.a.* hierarchy should find it.
    >


    http://labs.insert-title.com/labs/article795.aspx
     
    Harlan Messinger, Mar 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Don G

    WebMaster Guest

    "Don G" <> wrote in message
    news:422623a0$...
    > > If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I was
    > > given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my sites
    > > were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.

    >
    > Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the
    > rendering for the same program would be different between the Mac and
    > the PC version.


    Actually, and contrary to popular belief, it's just that they are not the
    same version. You can very well implement the same functionality regardless
    of the platform you are working on (although that might take considerable
    efforts). But ie on mac just isn't the same version as ie on windows,
    regardless of them having a same version number...
    --

    Rudy
    http://www.rol.be
    --
    Toon mij een cynicus en ik toon u een teleurgestelde idealist.

    > Don
     
    WebMaster, Mar 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Don G

    WebMaster Guest

    "Don G" <> wrote in message
    news:422624d3$...
    > > I can greatly recommend Opera[1]. Not only is it _the_ most standards
    > > compliant browser for Windows afaik, ...

    >
    > How different is Opera's rendering from Firefox's? I am just getting
    > started, so I would like to keep things as simple as possible for the
    > time being. If the differences are significant, then I will need to
    > check it out though.
    >
    > > ... it also gives you a box full of 'browsers' to play with. It has all
    > > sort of views, like emulating a text browser or a browser with large
    > > letters or high contrast.

    >
    > These sounds like an interesting and useful features. I might end up
    > checking Opera out just for these features.


    only thing is, it's not free :)
    Well, you have a banner if you don't pay, that is :)

    Rudy

    > Thanks,
    >
    > Don
     
    WebMaster, Mar 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Don G

    Stan Brown Guest

    "Don G" wrote in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design:
    >> If you can get your hands on a Mac, use that for testing as well. I was
    >> given a 4 year-old Mac, and I was amazed at how messed up 2 of my sites
    >> were when viewed in IE for Mac and Netscape/Mozilla for Mac.

    >
    >Interesting... I don't suppose anyone has any clue as to why the
    >rendering for the same program would be different between the Mac and
    >the PC version.


    IIRC, they're "the same program" only in name. My understanding is
    that Mac IE5 and Windows IE5 were different code bases.

    By the way, to answer another of your questions, I've been told
    that you can't have two releases of IE on the same machine if one
    of them is IE6. I haven't tested that myself.

    As always, you should test in Lynx or another character-based
    browser, and you should validate every page.


    --

    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com/
     
    Stan Brown, Mar 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Don G

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Previously in
    comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets,alt.html,comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design,
    Stan Brown <> said:

    > IIRC, they're "the same program" only in name. My understanding is
    > that Mac IE5 and Windows IE5 were different code bases.


    More than that - they use completely different rendering engines.

    > By the way, to answer another of your questions, I've been told
    > that you can't have two releases of IE on the same machine if one
    > of them is IE6. I haven't tested that myself.


    Depends who you ask. I have IE 4.01, 5.01, 5.5 and 6 all installed on
    this machine here. It does have a few strange side-effects, but nothing
    major - good enough for testing.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Mar 2, 2005
    #20
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