Browser use - IE vs everyone else

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Diogenes, Jan 7, 2008.

  1. Diogenes

    Diogenes Guest

    Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    of the eyeballs.

    Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
    higher % than that. For example

    http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

    Comments anyone?

    Cheers
    -Dio
     
    Diogenes, Jan 7, 2008
    #1
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  2. Diogenes

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On Jan 7, 1:10 am, Diogenes <> wrote:
    > Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    > of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    > to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    > of the eyeballs.
    >
    > Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
    > higher % than that. For example
    >
    > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    >
    > Comments anyone?


    Those who go to w3c sites likely know more about computers(or at least
    want to know more) than the average of all computer users. As a result
    they more likely will try non-IE browsers even if IE came installed on
    their computer. Microsoft sites likely would see more IE browsers than
    the average. Opera sites would more likely see far more Opera browsers
    than the average. The browsers owners likely have records of the
    downloads of their browsers, but I doubt it they would be willing to
    share this information. Also some browsers such as Firefox and Opera
    can spoof other browsers so they will not be shut out by script when
    the site really would work for the browser. Thus browser statistics
    should be taken with several grains of salt. I would guess that a
    banking or credit card company statistics might be near the average
    for browser usage( neglecting spoofed browsers). However even here you
    would likely get a percentage of very old browsers below the average,
    because such sites usually have high level security that often
    requires fairly new browsers. Also, until recently, many such high
    security sites were designed to work only on IE and Netscape browsers.
    I have not found any business sites that I now use often that reject
    Opera or Firefox without setting these browsers to spoof IE, but you
    likely could still find some.
     
    cwdjrxyz, Jan 7, 2008
    #2
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  3. In article <c2403$4781d054$5351029d$>,
    Diogenes <> wrote:

    > Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    > of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    > to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    > of the eyeballs.
    >
    > Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
    > higher % than that. For example
    >
    > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    >
    > Comments anyone?


    From a look at the link, I see that Safari registers now but didn't in
    2006. It shows 1.8 percent. If you believe that all Mac owners comprise
    1.8 percent of computer owners and that nobody in the Windows world is
    using Safari (available for Windows users in 2007), things sort of add
    up. Otherwise, the statistics are for Windows users only and Mac and
    other OS users are not included in those statistics.
    Any problems you're seeing may reflect that.

    leo
     
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jan 7, 2008
    #3
  4. Diogenes

    Diogenes Guest

    I'm not claiming to understand everything you comment on,
    particularly spoofing IE (is this automatic?), but the web
    site I provided is a link to is an asp page which would indicate
    an MS shop. FF had a 36% share on this site.

    Your assertion about visitors to 'w3c' may be valid. But
    where are the most reliable statistics?

    FWIW, the microsoft sites, especially MSDN, are amoung the most
    useless to solving a windows problem. IMHO, using the exact same
    query on Google produces much better results than the MSDN search engine.

    Cheers
    -Dio

    cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > On Jan 7, 1:10 am, Diogenes <> wrote:
    >> Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    >> of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    >> to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    >> of the eyeballs.
    >>
    >> Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
    >> higher % than that. For example
    >>
    >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    >>
    >> Comments anyone?

    >
    > Those who go to w3c sites likely know more about computers(or at least
    > want to know more) than the average of all computer users. As a result
    > they more likely will try non-IE browsers even if IE came installed on
    > their computer. Microsoft sites likely would see more IE browsers than
    > the average. Opera sites would more likely see far more Opera browsers
    > than the average. The browsers owners likely have records of the
    > downloads of their browsers, but I doubt it they would be willing to
    > share this information. Also some browsers such as Firefox and Opera
    > can spoof other browsers so they will not be shut out by script when
    > the site really would work for the browser. Thus browser statistics
    > should be taken with several grains of salt. I would guess that a
    > banking or credit card company statistics might be near the average
    > for browser usage( neglecting spoofed browsers). However even here you
    > would likely get a percentage of very old browsers below the average,
    > because such sites usually have high level security that often
    > requires fairly new browsers. Also, until recently, many such high
    > security sites were designed to work only on IE and Netscape browsers.
    > I have not found any business sites that I now use often that reject
    > Opera or Firefox without setting these browsers to spoof IE, but you
    > likely could still find some.
    >
     
    Diogenes, Jan 7, 2008
    #4
  5. ..oO(Diogenes)

    >I'm not claiming to understand everything you comment on,
    >particularly spoofing IE (is this automatic?),


    Modern browsers allow their users to configure how the browser should
    identify himself.

    >but the web
    >site I provided is a link to is an asp page which would indicate
    >an MS shop. FF had a 36% share on this site.


    The used server-side technology says absolutely nothing about the users
    of that site or the used browsers. It's the content that matters.

    >Your assertion about visitors to 'w3c' may be valid. But
    >where are the most reliable statistics?


    Almost only on your own site(s).

    Micha
     
    Michael Fesser, Jan 7, 2008
    #5
  6. Diogenes

    Dylan Parry Guest

    Diogenes wrote:
    > I'm not claiming to understand everything you comment on,
    > particularly spoofing IE (is this automatic?), but the web
    > site I provided is a link to is an asp page which would indicate
    > an MS shop. FF had a 36% share on this site.


    An "MS shop" on the server side, maybe, but that doesn't mean that their
    users are any more likely to favour MS software. ASP doesn't require IE
    to view the pages, so I can't really see that as having much of an effect.

    > Your assertion about visitors to 'w3c' may be valid. But
    > where are the most reliable statistics?


    I doubt that the most reliable stats are actually available to the
    general public. As cwdjrxyz stated, you'd only get these sort of stats
    from a site that crosses all of the various demographics, and the only
    sites that are going to capture everyone in their demographic are sites
    like Google and Amazon - yet I don't think they publish their logs :)

    > FWIW, the microsoft sites, especially MSDN, are amoung the most
    > useless to solving a windows problem. IMHO, using the exact same
    > query on Google produces much better results than the MSDN search engine.


    Perhaps for solving a Windows problem, but certainly form a developer's
    point of view, they are second-to-none. I can't count the number of
    times I have consulted the C# API documentation on the MSDN site.

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://electricfreedom.org | http://webpageworkshop.co.uk

    The opinions stated above are not necessarily representative of
    those of my cats. All opinions expressed are entirely your own.
     
    Dylan Parry, Jan 7, 2008
    #6
  7. Diogenes

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 7 Jan, 08:39, Diogenes <> wrote:

    > Your assertion about visitors to 'w3c' may be valid. But
    > where are the most reliable statistics?


    On your own site (analysing your own logs isn't hard). When the share
    is so dependent on the market sector, you need to look at the stats
    that are local to your particular needs.

    There's also the issue that you just don't need to know this anyway,
    because you're designing to support a standard, not to support
    individual browsers - - aren't you? :cool:
     
    Andy Dingley, Jan 7, 2008
    #7
  8. On Jan 7, 2:10 am, Diogenes <> wrote:
    > Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    > of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    > to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    > of the eyeballs.


    So what. Why does it matter, or should it, what browser someone uses
    when they come to your site?
     
    Travis Newbury, Jan 7, 2008
    #8
  9. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Diogenes <>
    writing in news:c2403$4781d054$5351029d$:

    > Several articles I read recently regarding the demise
    > of Netscape Navigator stated that Firefox had managed
    > to get a 16% market share and that IE still has over 80%
    > of the eyeballs.
    >
    > Yet my statistics and those of others indicate a much
    > higher % than that. For example
    >
    > http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
    >
    > Comments anyone?
    >
    > Cheers
    > -Dio


    I have two sites that I monitor browser statistics (only because I am
    curious and waiting for the demise of IE). Interestingly enough, the
    site (apartments) that has visitors from a younger, more affluent group
    is getting FF at 25-30%, and the other site (local Catholic church) is
    showing 10-15%. Same city, different audiences.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne Boswell, Jan 9, 2008
    #9
  10. Diogenes

    Diogenes Guest

    Adrienne Boswell wrote:
    > I have two sites that I monitor browser statistics (only because I am
    > curious and waiting for the demise of IE). Interestingly enough, the
    > site (apartments) that has visitors from a younger, more affluent group
    > is getting FF at 25-30%, and the other site (local Catholic church) is
    > showing 10-15%. Same city, different audiences.
    >


    Grin. As am I. Thanks for the post.

    Anecdotal numbers may not be the best but they can be useful
    and they are usually interesting.

    I've reposted (and cross-posted) here on a new thread.

    Let the fireworks begin!

    Cheers
    -Dio
     
    Diogenes, Jan 9, 2008
    #10
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