Browser Wont Reload or Refresh Page.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Larry Lindstrom, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Hi Folks:

    There are 20800 threads with "Refresh" and
    "Reload" in Google's archives for groups with
    "html" in their title. I'm sorry if this has
    been done to death, but I didn't see it.

    It's been a few years since I wrote Javascript
    and I want to refresh my HTML skills. So I build
    the current Apache on my Solaris PC. Then, from a
    Win2K PC, telnet into the Solaris system for a vi
    session to edit some HTML on the website, fire up
    Firefox 1.0.6 and work my way through W3Schools'
    HTML tutorial.

    The lessons run smoothly, I add examples from
    each tutorial to my home page, hit Firefox's
    "Reload current page" icon, and see the results
    of my changes.

    When I get to the tutorial on frames I mis-
    spell the name of one of the files in the
    <frame src="second frame.html">, I put a blank
    instead of an underscore in the file name for
    the middle of 3 columns.

    Firefox complains, as I would expect, with
    an error message in the center column. "The
    requested URL /second frame.html was not found
    on this server." I correct the problem, but I
    get the same error message. Reload, refresh,
    same error.

    I try a bunch of different things, but I'm
    getting the same error, over a filename that
    no longer exists in the HTML.

    The text in the "View-source" window shows
    the corrected source.

    I fire up a second Firefox browser window,
    aim it at my Solaris PC, and the columns
    display properly.

    I've seen many posts in the Google archives
    asking how a web page author can force a page
    to be refreshed, but this is a question of
    how a person browsing the site can force a
    page to be refreshed.

    I'm using the tools a non-technical user
    will have to browse my page. Why can't I
    force a refresh to see the current HTML?

    Thanks
    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Sep 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Larry Lindstrom

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Larry Lindstrom quothed:

    > I'm using the tools a non-technical user
    > will have to browse my page. Why can't I
    > force a refresh to see the current HTML?


    Apparently it's refreshing the page from the cache, so clear the cache
    then change your page-cache settings.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
    Neredbojias, Sep 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    <snip>
    > I've seen many posts in the Google archives
    > asking how a web page author can force a page
    > to be refreshed, but this is a question of
    > how a person browsing the site can force a
    > page to be refreshed.
    >
    > I'm using the tools a non-technical user
    > will have to browse my page. Why can't I
    > force a refresh to see the current HTML?
    >
    > Thanks
    > Larry


    Normally hold shift key down while clicking the refresh button, else in
    FF 'Tools|Privacy|Cache' click clear button.

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Larry Lindstrom

    WD10 Guest

    On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:24:06 -0700, Neredbojias wrote:

    > With neither quill nor qualm, Larry Lindstrom quothed:
    >
    >> I'm using the tools a non-technical user
    >> will have to browse my page. Why can't I
    >> force a refresh to see the current HTML?

    >
    > Apparently it's refreshing the page from the cache, so clear the cache
    > then change your page-cache settings.


    Easiest way to prevent page caching: Firefox Web Developer Toolbar. I
    listed some of the features here:
    http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-developer-toolbar.htm

    You just click on "Disable" and then on "Disable Cache", and the browser
    will stop caching pages.
    WD10, Sep 5, 2005
    #4
  5. WD10 wrote:
    > On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 04:24:06 -0700, Neredbojias wrote:
    >
    >
    >>With neither quill nor qualm, Larry Lindstrom quothed:
    >>
    >>
    >>> I'm using the tools a non-technical user
    >>>will have to browse my page. Why can't I
    >>>force a refresh to see the current HTML?

    >>
    >>Apparently it's refreshing the page from the cache, so clear the cache
    >>then change your page-cache settings.

    >
    >
    > Easiest way to prevent page caching: Firefox Web Developer Toolbar. I
    > listed some of the features here:
    > http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-developer-toolbar.htm
    >
    > You just click on "Disable" and then on "Disable Cache", and the browser
    > will stop caching pages.


    Thanks Neredbojias, Jonathan and WD10:

    I've bookmarked your page WD10, and I'll look at
    it after I've finished some of the tutorials. What
    do people think of the W3Schools tutorials? I've
    used them before and they seem pretty good. Any
    others I should be looking at for getting back up
    to speed with Web development?

    I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
    seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
    user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
    "Reload current page" icon and get the current page
    from the server. Is this something that should be
    fixed in Firefox, or is this working just like it
    should?

    Thanks
    Larry
    Larry Lindstrom, Sep 5, 2005
    #5
  6. On Mon, 5 Sep 2005, Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    > What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?


    Mixed. Some is fine, some is dubious. I don't know how a would-be
    learner could tell the difference.

    Usenet is the same, but at least some of the contributors will point
    you at authoritiative sources where you can verify the truth for yourself.

    > I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
    > seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
    > user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
    > "Reload current page" icon and get the current page
    > from the server.


    It's a fact of the HTTP architecture that if a server says a document
    is good for 30 days, it's good for 30 days, even if, after 7 days,
    something comes up that means it has to be updated.

    Authors need to learn that once that's happened, there isn't a damned
    thing they can do from the server side to negate it. Typically, they
    react by stubbornly introducing a whole menagerie of immediate-expiry and
    no-cache headers that don't solve the actual problem at all, but store up
    any amount of trouble for the future.

    Users need to learn that, if in doubt, their browser has a gesture (could
    be shift/reload or ctrl/reload or whatever) that will break-through any
    specification-conforming cache, and get the server's current offering,
    even if its previous offering hasn't yet expired.

    Nobbling the browser to always do that without the user specifically
    requesting it could result in an unnecessarily lethargic response from
    servers in general. It's a difficult compromise.

    h t h
    Alan J. Flavell, Sep 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    <snip>

    I don't mind caches. But I'm wondering if it
    > seems like a flaw in the browser that a non technical
    > user, with no knowledge of caches, can't hit the
    > "Reload current page" icon and get the current page
    > from the server. Is this something that should be
    > fixed in Firefox, or is this working just like it
    > should?


    see:

    http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/mouse
    Firefox Help: Mouse Shortcuts

    checkout 'Reload (override cache)'
    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Sep 5, 2005
    #7
  8. Larry Lindstrom

    WD10 Guest

    On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 12:36:09 -0700, Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    > WD10 wrote:
    >
    >> Easiest way to prevent page caching: Firefox Web Developer Toolbar. I
    >> listed some of the features here:

    http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-developer-toolbar.htm
    >>
    >> You just click on "Disable" and then on "Disable Cache", and the browser
    >> will stop caching pages.

    >
    > Thanks Neredbojias, Jonathan and WD10:
    >
    > I've bookmarked your page WD10, and I'll look at
    > it after I've finished some of the tutorials. What
    > do people think of the W3Schools tutorials? I've
    > used them before and they seem pretty good. Any
    > others I should be looking at for getting back up
    > to speed with Web development?


    W3schools tutorials are good because everything there is very organized
    by category. That is how I learned in the beginning. Some people complain
    that W3schools is a bad site because they teach you things like <body
    bgcolor=""> and <font face="">. But on the other hand if I hadn't learned
    how to use those things I wouldn't be
    able to understand half the sites out there when I am trying to fix
    someone else's web site. Sometimes you are fixing someone else's web page
    and your job is not to convert it to valid HTML/CSS, but just to make it
    work again as fast as possible. HTML Dog is recommended by a lot of people -- maybe it is
    better. Generally, if I have a question about HTML or CSS, the first
    place I go is to Google and I type my question followed by "site:w3.org"
    (no quotes).

    The Web Developer Toolbar extension has a "validate HTML" button and a
    "validate CSS" button which are useful to check your site.

    There is also an HTML Tidy Firefox extension that checks your page for
    errors, so every time you view a page in your browser, all warnings and
    errors will show on the status bar. It also gives you information when
    you view the source (CTRL-U). I have a page with information
    on it here:
    http://tips.webdesign10.com/web-design-extensions.htm




    ----------------------------
    J.Cohen
    http://tips.webdesign10.com
    WD10, Sep 5, 2005
    #8
  9. Larry Lindstrom

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Larry Lindstrom wrote:

    > What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?


    I think they're pretty good as a reference for people who already know
    what they're doing. For example, if you need to check whether the CSS to
    capitalise stuff is "text-transform:capitals" or "text-transform:uppercase",
    they'll set you straight very quickly (it's the latter IIRC).

    As tutorials go though, they're not great. They spend plenty of time
    teaching you how you *can* do things, but not how you *should* do things.
    Some tutorials are a lot worse than W3schools, but some are better too.

    As tutorials I would recommend:

    http://htmldog.com/
    http://tranchant.plus.com/web/html-tutorial/

    I would also love to be able to recommend:

    http://tobyinkster.co.uk/html-tutorial

    but it is sadly incomplete for now.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Sep 6, 2005
    #9
  10. Larry Lindstrom

    JennyLin Guest

    "Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:5n.co.uk...
    > Larry Lindstrom wrote:
    >
    >> What do people think of the W3Schools tutorials?


    Thats what I am using, finding it great for a newbie, nice and simple plus
    the examples are really good to learn from.
    I just have to remember to check what goes with css and what doesn't.

    >
    > I think they're pretty good as a reference for people who already know
    > what they're doing. For example, if you need to check whether the CSS to
    > capitalise stuff is "text-transform:capitals" or
    > "text-transform:uppercase",
    > they'll set you straight very quickly (it's the latter IIRC).
    >
    > As tutorials go though, they're not great. They spend plenty of time
    > teaching you how you *can* do things, but not how you *should* do things.
    > Some tutorials are a lot worse than W3schools, but some are better too.
    >
    > As tutorials I would recommend:
    >
    > http://htmldog.com/
    > http://tranchant.plus.com/web/html-tutorial/


    Excellent, thank you, lots more reading for me.

    >
    > I would also love to be able to recommend:
    >
    > http://tobyinkster.co.uk/html-tutorial
    >
    > but it is sadly incomplete for now.


    Give me 5 years and I will help you :)

    Jenny
    JennyLin, Sep 6, 2005
    #10
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