Buddy can you spare a dime (in minutes)?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bob, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Hi Folks!

    I hope you are all doing well.

    I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    taking for restaurants.

    I'd like to have some comments on it. But pleez don't tell me it needs
    more graphics!!!

    Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/

    If you are feeling really ambitious pleez go to the administrators'
    segement, the URL is www.1369.com/Login.htm

    The User ID is bambino and the Password is bino (it is case sensitive).


    I'd like to hear your comments on performance, ease of use, and any
    other topic you choose. Please don't prove your un-professionalism by
    making up dumb-ass criticisms. OK? It requires javascript and that is
    the way I want it.

    If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,

    tell me why.

    Thanks-In-Advance,

    Bob Sweeney
    671 686 1310
     
    Bob, Nov 10, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bob

    brucie Guest

    In post <news:>,
    Bob said:

    > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/


    fix your errors:
    http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=h...estern Europe)&doctype=HTML 4.01 Transitional
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/...w.1369.com/Bambino.htm&warning=1&profile=css2

    > It requires javascript and that is the way I want it.


    no one cares what you want, its what your /visitors/ want that matters. i
    don't have JS available so the page is just a useless pile of shit. i bet
    you haven't even checked the site in browsers other than IE, wait let me
    guess, its only for IE and thats the way you like it. moron.

    > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > cafeteria managers...


    i would never do them such a disservice.

    > if you think it sucks then tell me


    it sucks

    > and especially, tell me why.


    its extremely amateurish rubbish. i'm sure you're very proud of it but
    seriously it is crap. i would dump the lot, start again.

    for a start:

    · learn html, css and a server side language of your choice.
    · semantically markup the pages.
    · make JS optional, use as much as you like if you want but if its
    unavailable then go server side.
    · test in browsers other than IE
    · learn the basics of UID+HCI

    come back in 12-18 months if you work hard you may be close to having
    something worth looking at but i would still doubt it would be of a
    satisfactory commercial standard. theres a hell of a lot you need to learn,
    not just how to throw a few pages together.

    you may need to read these:

    How to post from Google:
    http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

    How do I quote correctly in Usenet? - Quoting and Answering
    http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote2.html

    --
    l i t t l e v o i c e s
     
    brucie, Nov 10, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bob

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Bob quothed:

    > Hi Folks!
    >
    > I hope you are all doing well.
    >
    > I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    > some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    > taking for restaurants.
    >
    > I'd like to have some comments on it. But pleez don't tell me it needs
    > more graphics!!!
    >
    > Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/
    >
    > If you are feeling really ambitious pleez go to the administrators'
    > segement, the URL is www.1369.com/Login.htm
    >
    > The User ID is bambino and the Password is bino (it is case sensitive).
    >
    >
    > I'd like to hear your comments on performance, ease of use, and any
    > other topic you choose. Please don't prove your un-professionalism by
    > making up dumb-ass criticisms. OK? It requires javascript and that is
    > the way I want it.
    >
    > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,
    >
    > tell me why.
    >
    > Thanks-In-Advance,
    >
    > Bob Sweeney


    Kinda simple opening page, don't you think? The aesthetics aren't. I'd
    suggest analyzing some better pro pages to get a feel for it.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Nov 10, 2005
    #3
  4. Bob

    Guest

    Bob wrote:
    > Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/
    >
    > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,


    There's nothing about that that would persuade me to use it. It looks
    like it's been written by a nine year old, and lacks any sort of design
    whatsoever. The menu screen is, too long, it's cluttered and simply
    looks like a direct copy of what must be a poorly laid out menu.
    There's no excuse for that sort of stuff these days. You're dealing in
    ecommerce, to a degree, with this.

    It sucks. It's truly dreadful. I cannot imagine how that "system"
    (and I use the word loosely) could benefit a cafeteria or restaurant at
    all. It's so much easier to browse a restaurant's site, and then order
    while booking the table.

    --
    Hywel
     
    , Nov 10, 2005
    #4
  5. wrote:
    > > Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    > > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/
    > > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > > cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,

    > There's nothing about that that would persuade me to use it....
    > It sucks. It's truly dreadful. I cannot imagine how that "system"
    > (and I use the word loosely) could benefit a cafeteria or restaurant at
    > all. It's so much easier to browse a restaurant's site, and then order
    > while booking the table.


    How do you REALLY feel?
    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Travis Newbury, Nov 10, 2005
    #5
  6. Bob

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On 9 Nov 2005 22:50:05 -0800, "Bob" <> wrote:

    >I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    >some quality Q & A and some feedback on it.


    Probably the worst website we've seen up for critique in months. You
    also multi-posted this to every newsgroup _except_ the right one.

    It's ugly. It offers no enticement whatsoever to the user to actualy
    bother to use it. Whatever it offers isn't clear, and it buries any
    useful content in big text blocks of guff.

    Implementation is low-end too.
     
    Andy Dingley, Nov 10, 2005
    #6
  7. Bob

    JDS Guest

    On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 22:50:05 -0800, Bob wrote:

    > Hi Folks!


    Hi to you too.

    > I hope you are all doing well.


    Actually I am doing quite poorly but it is a long story.

    > I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    > some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    > taking for restaurants.
    >
    > I'd like to have some comments on it. But pleez don't tell me it needs
    > more graphics!!!


    It needs more graphics.

    No, but seriously, it sucks. I have to agree with the other respondees.
    And I haven't even looked at the HTML/CSS validity or coding.

    Think of it from the point of view of a user. How does one order
    something from a restaurant, either in person or on the phone? One looks
    in a menu and then says in plain speak what the order is. It is not
    complicated -- even if the menu is very long.

    IMO, a restaurant order system should be very very very easy to use. I
    actually have seen some good examples at "restaurants" that have a
    website-like menu kiosk system.

    Examples (I am in Maryland, you may not have these stores in Florida) can
    be found at Sheetz and at Royal Farms.

    The kiosk has a touch screen.

    There is a simple entry screen that lists the half dozen or so different
    high-level categories -- sandwich, fried chicken, hamburgers, etc.. Click
    on one (touch with your finger, actually) and it goes to a sub menu

    Sub menus have things like toppings, extras (fries, drinks), , etc. All
    separated onto simple, uncluttered pages. i.e. condiments is not on the
    same page as drink choices.

    There are lots of big, friendly, obvious *pictures* of what is being
    ordered at every stage of the ordering process.

    There is a tally sheet on the right that lists everything that has been
    ordered and your running total.

    Do yourself a favor and go find a system like this, either in person or on
    the web, that has been done already. Mimic it (i.e. copy it verbatim).
    Plagarism is the sincerest form of flattery. Don't reinvent the wheel.
    Necessity is the mother of inventing menu taking systems. Don't look a
    gift horse in its flat pancakes. You've made your fence, now you have to
    sleep on it. etc.

    Just my opinion. later...

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
     
    JDS, Nov 10, 2005
    #7
  8. Bob wrote:

    > I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    > some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    > taking for restaurants.


    It doesn't look any different than the last time I saw it .. what? ..
    six months ago? What have you been doing? It's still terrible.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 10, 2005
    #8
  9. Bob

    Guillaume Guest

    Bob:
    > I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    > some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    > taking for restaurants.
    > I'd like to have some comments on it. But pleez don't tell me it needs
    > more graphics!!!


    The first impression is: it is ugly!
    Really. Even if you don't want graphics, you should make it looks
    better. Why do you use fixed font? Why don't you use borders or colors
    to separate the elements?

    In terms of functionalities, it seems OK but the ergonomy is so-so. Each
    time I ordered an item, it asked me to click on the general
    corresponding item. This second click is not needed.

    No problem with the speed. It was fast.

    In summary, just remove the click for the general item (aka Salad) and
    improve the aethetics.

    Regards, Guillaume

    --
    My desktop is worth a million of dollars. Put an icon on it.
    http://www.milliondollarscreenshot.com/
     
    Guillaume, Nov 10, 2005
    #9
  10. Bob, If you can take all this abuse and (even) come back for more
    apparently, you've got a thick skin and at least that will work in your
    favor.

    Having no technical expertise myself, I'll let the techies abuse you on that
    front.

    You may understand your site from the inside, out, but it would help you to
    try to understand it from the outside, in.

    If I'm a restaurant owner, what am I going to have to do? Will I have to put
    my menu into elect. form and put it into your template somehow? You imply
    that's simple (5 minutes) but it may not be, so don't try to sell me on ease
    of use. Things like emphasizing the ease of use and copyright ownership are
    putting the cart before the horse. Put that on hold for now and get back to
    the basics.

    If I do put my menu into your template, will the ordering system thenceforth
    be controlled by me, or somehow still by you?

    Will my customers go online, make their orders, then what? What if they
    order after hours? What if they live too far away?

    Your tutorial seems like it should be for the restaurant owner to take, but
    as such it seems like you're trying to show the restaurant owner what the
    customer's experience will be. Keep those three points of view clear
    (your's, owner's, customer's) in your own mind, and keep them in mind for
    your site's readers.

    Good luck,
    WilliamW


    "Bob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi Folks!
    >
    > I hope you are all doing well.
    >
    > I have a website that I've created and I'm wondering if I can ask for
    > some quality Q & A and some feedback on it. The program is for order
    > taking for restaurants.
    >
    > I'd like to have some comments on it. But pleez don't tell me it needs
    > more graphics!!!
    >
    > Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/
    >
    > If you are feeling really ambitious pleez go to the administrators'
    > segement, the URL is www.1369.com/Login.htm
    >
    > The User ID is bambino and the Password is bino (it is case sensitive).
    >
    >
    > I'd like to hear your comments on performance, ease of use, and any
    > other topic you choose. Please don't prove your un-professionalism by
    > making up dumb-ass criticisms. OK? It requires javascript and that is
    > the way I want it.
    >
    > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,
    >
    > tell me why.
    >
    > Thanks-In-Advance,
    >
    > Bob Sweeney
    > 671 686 1310
    >
     
    WilliamWMeyer, Nov 10, 2005
    #10
  11. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I don't want to book a table, you fucking idiot....I want to order for
    take out or maybe delivery....why do you asume I'm booking a table...

    It's you brain that is "truly dreadful"...not my simple order taking
    system for restaurants...you didn't even look at the whole thing....the
    negativity just spews out.....

    you have a really vicious case of diarrhea of the mouth.......**** you





    Travis Newbury
    Nov 10, 9:36 pm show options

    Newsgroups: alt.html
    From: "Travis Newbury" <> - Find messages by
    this author
    Date: 10 Nov 2005 03:36:15 -0800
    Local: Thurs, Nov 10 2005 9:36 pm
    Subject: Re: Buddy can you spare a dime (in minutes)?
    Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
    original | Report Abuse



    wrote:
    > > Here's the example, feel free to order to your hearts content.
    > > www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com/
    > > If you like the program then tell your local restaurant owners and
    > > cafeteria managers...if you think it sucks then tell me and especially,

    > There's nothing about that that would persuade me to use it....
    > It sucks. It's truly dreadful. I cannot imagine how that "system"
    > (and I use the word loosely) could benefit a cafeteria or restaurant at
    > all. It's so much easier to browse a restaurant's site, and then order
    > while booking the table.



    How do you REALLY feel?
    --
    -=tn=-
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #11
  12. Bob

    Bob Guest

    William, thanks for the good wishes.....there are a lot of peopole out
    there with a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.

    I have gotten a few comments I can use from my posting.....

    Some times I show my program to other programmers and they will often
    say, "you don't have to listen to me but...." and then they go on with
    their assinine comments.....what I don't say to them is "I'm showing
    you my program and soliciting your comments even though I know only one
    comment in 100 will be something I can use".

    I have showed my program to hundreds of people all over the world and I
    have gotten many positive comments and some very excellent comments as
    well.

    If you are going to be a programmer just remember, most can only talk
    about programming, few can actually write a program. I have a lot of
    programs, (www.BobSweeney.Net) ......You won't be surprised to hear
    that I have great things to say about every web site I see, even though
    many have programming conventions I don't necessarily agree with.

    Good luck to you too.....best regards,

    Bob Sweeney



    WilliamWMeyer
    Nov 11, 8:15 am show options

    Newsgroups: alt.html
    From: "WilliamWMeyer" <> - Find messages by this
    author
    Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:15:39 -0500
    Local: Fri, Nov 11 2005 8:15 am
    Subject: Re: Buddy can you spare a dime (in minutes)?
    Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
    original | Report Abuse

    Bob, If you can take all this abuse and (even) come back for more
    apparently, you've got a thick skin and at least that will work in your

    favor.


    Having no technical expertise myself, I'll let the techies abuse you on
    that
    front.


    You may understand your site from the inside, out, but it would help
    you to
    try to understand it from the outside, in.


    If I'm a restaurant owner, what am I going to have to do? Will I have
    to put
    my menu into elect. form and put it into your template somehow? You
    imply
    that's simple (5 minutes) but it may not be, so don't try to sell me on
    ease
    of use. Things like emphasizing the ease of use and copyright ownership
    are
    putting the cart before the horse. Put that on hold for now and get
    back to
    the basics.


    If I do put my menu into your template, will the ordering system
    thenceforth
    be controlled by me, or somehow still by you?


    Will my customers go online, make their orders, then what? What if they

    order after hours? What if they live too far away?


    Your tutorial seems like it should be for the restaurant owner to take,
    but
    as such it seems like you're trying to show the restaurant owner what
    the
    customer's experience will be. Keep those three points of view clear
    (your's, owner's, customer's) in your own mind, and keep them in mind
    for
    your site's readers.


    Good luck,
    WilliamW



    "Bob" <> wrote in message


    news:...
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #12
  13. Bob

    Guest

    Bob wrote:
    > I don't want to book a table, you fucking idiot....I want to order for
    > take out or maybe delivery....why do you asume I'm booking a table...
    >
    > It's you brain that is "truly dreadful"...not my simple order taking
    > system for restaurants...you didn't even look at the whole thing....the
    > negativity just spews out.....
    >
    > you have a really vicious case of diarrhea of the mouth.......**** you



    You're an idiot. You asked for criticism, and you got it - plain,
    simple, and honest. It's not a simple order taking system - it's
    rubbish. There's a reason that take out menus haven't changed in 50
    years: they're simple to use, and ordering with them is fast.

    You asked for comments on performance, ease of use, and any other
    topic. We covered all of those. The system, at the end of the day, is
    shit. I use the word "system" very loosely here, though.

    --
    Hywel
     
    , Nov 14, 2005
    #13
  14. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Hey jerkoff....I asked for some quality Q & A......not assinine
    criticism from someone who didn't even look at the program.....that's
    QUALITY Q & A......that means you make a reasonable attempt to do
    things that the program is attempting to do.....

    you made no attempt to use the program., i.e., order a dang piza or
    salad or sandwich....

    go order a fucking pizza.......then tell me what's wrong with the
    program......

    and let me know what programs you have written........fucking NONE, I'm
    sure

    get off your fucking theory and start having some fun writing programs
    that are usefull to people..


    like my order taking system.

    you fucking babysitter,

    Bob



    Bob wrote:
    > I don't want to book a table, you fucking idiot....I want to order for
    > take out or maybe delivery....why do you asume I'm booking a table...


    > It's you brain that is "truly dreadful"...not my simple order taking
    > system for restaurants...you didn't even look at the whole thing....the
    > negativity just spews out.....



    > you have a really vicious case of diarrhea of the mouth.......**** you




    You're an idiot. You asked for criticism, and you got it - plain,
    simple, and honest. It's not a simple order taking system - it's
    rubbish. There's a reason that take out menus haven't changed in 50
    years: they're simple to use, and ordering with them is fast.

    You asked for comments on performance, ease of use, and any other
    topic. We covered all of those. The system, at the end of the day, is

    shit. I use the word "system" very loosely here, though.


    --
    Hywel
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #14
  15. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Neredbojias.......I plead guilty in the first degree.......absolutely
    positively blatantly obviously SIMPLE.

    Bob

    p.s., thanks for the comment


    Kinda simple opening page, don't you think? The aesthetics aren't.
    I'd
    suggest analyzing some better pro pages to get a feel for it.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #15
  16. Bob

    Dylan Parry Guest

    "If I'd know it was going to be this difficult in /alt.html/, I'd have
    joined the circus instead", thought Bob:

    > go order a fucking pizza


    If your hands are as dirty as your language, then I wouldn't even
    consider eating your food.

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://electricfreedom.org -- Where the Music Progressively Rocks!

    Usenet: The first post is free, but the next will cost you your soul.
     
    Dylan Parry, Nov 14, 2005
    #16
  17. Bob

    Guest

    Bob wrote:
    > Hey jerkoff....I asked for some quality Q & A......not assinine
    > criticism from someone who didn't even look at the program.


    Of course I looked at it you dope. How else would I know that it's
    rubbish?

    > you made no attempt to use the program., i.e., order a dang piza or
    > salad or sandwich....


    Yes, I did. That's what convinced me that it's rubbish. The main
    thing it's lacking is an interface. If I want to order a pizza I dial
    6 numbers in to my 'phone, they confirm my address using Caller ID, I
    tell them what I want, they deliver. The whole ordering process takes
    about 30 seconds. When I order a sandwich I ring ahead, tell them what
    I want, then I go to get it. The order process there takes about 30
    seconds. Your "software" can't beat that.


    > and let me know what programs you have written........fucking NONE, I'm
    > sure


    Where to begin... I started programming 23 years ago, when I was 12,
    and made money from a program I wrote when I was 15. My BSc
    dissertation was entitled "The Use of Genetic Algorithms in Optical
    Character Recognition". It was written in Borland C and could read
    handwriting with 60% accuracy. Not too shabby considering I had less
    than a year to clue up on what GAs are, how OCR works, and how to
    implement it.

    After university (1996) I wrote data transformation utilities that took
    data from ICL mainframes and put it in to a variety of local government
    service databases. After that (1998) I started developing web-based
    applications for the publishing and aviation industries. One project
    included running a web site from CD with full search and shopping
    basket facilities using a pseudo-embedded web server.

    If you want to see some of my work, it's at
    http://kibo.org.uk/downloads.php - suck it and see, big boy. You're
    still in Little League.

    --
    Hywel
     
    , Nov 14, 2005
    #17
  18. Bob

    Bob Guest

    I'm not serving food Dylan. Why don't you see what the issues are
    before commenting. Take this advice from Confucious "better to remain
    silent and be thought a fool than to open you mouth and remove all
    doubt.

    Now go order a goddam pizza @ www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com and give me some
    quality feedback on how simple-difficult it is.

    Bob






    "If I'd know it was going to be this difficult in /alt.html/, I'd have
    joined the circus instead", thought Bob:

    > go order a fucking pizza


    If your hands are as dirty as your language, then I wouldn't even
    consider eating your food.

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://electricfreedom.org -- Where the Music Progressively Rocks!


    Usenet: The first post is free, but the next will cost you your soul.
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #18
  19. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Hey Hywel...you do have a website..................with a fucking pussy
    on it....just like you

    I knew it.................you are totally useless

    now go look at all the brilliantly usefull programs on my web
    server....www.BobSweeney.Net

    meow meow...you fucking useless peice of shit..







    Nov 14, 10:28 pm show options

    Newsgroups: alt.html
    From: - Find messages by this author
    Date: 14 Nov 2005 04:28:55 -0800
    Local: Mon, Nov 14 2005 10:28 pm
    Subject: Re: Buddy can you spare a dime (in minutes)?
    Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
    original | Report Abuse



    Bob wrote:
    > Hey jerkoff....I asked for some quality Q & A......not assinine
    > criticism from someone who didn't even look at the program.



    Of course I looked at it you dope. How else would I know that it's
    rubbish?


    > you made no attempt to use the program., i.e., order a dang piza or
    > salad or sandwich....



    Yes, I did. That's what convinced me that it's rubbish. The main
    thing it's lacking is an interface. If I want to order a pizza I dial
    6 numbers in to my 'phone, they confirm my address using Caller ID, I
    tell them what I want, they deliver. The whole ordering process takes
    about 30 seconds. When I order a sandwich I ring ahead, tell them what

    I want, then I go to get it. The order process there takes about 30
    seconds. Your "software" can't beat that.


    > and let me know what programs you have written........fucking NONE, I'm
    > sure



    Where to begin... I started programming 23 years ago, when I was 12,
    and made money from a program I wrote when I was 15. My BSc
    dissertation was entitled "The Use of Genetic Algorithms in Optical
    Character Recognition". It was written in Borland C and could read
    handwriting with 60% accuracy. Not too shabby considering I had less
    than a year to clue up on what GAs are, how OCR works, and how to
    implement it.

    After university (1996) I wrote data transformation utilities that took

    data from ICL mainframes and put it in to a variety of local government

    service databases. After that (1998) I started developing web-based
    applications for the publishing and aviation industries. One project
    included running a web site from CD with full search and shopping
    basket facilities using a pseudo-embedded web server.


    If you want to see some of my work, it's at
    http://kibo.org.uk/downloads.php - suck it and see, big boy. You're
    still in Little League.


    --
    Hywel
     
    Bob, Nov 14, 2005
    #19
  20. Bob

    Dylan Parry Guest

    "If I'd know it was going to be this difficult in /alt.html/, I'd have
    joined the circus instead", thought Bob:

    > I'm not serving food Dylan. Why don't you see what the issues are
    > before commenting.


    I have seen the issues. The issue is that you are mouthing off and being
    generally rude to people who comment that your form is difficult to use.

    > Take this advice from Confucious "better to remain silent and be
    > thought a fool than to open you mouth and remove all doubt.


    Here's another for you: "People ask for criticism, but they only want
    praise" - W. Somerset Maugham.

    > Now go order a goddam pizza @ www.OrderingMadeEasy.Com and give me some
    > quality feedback on how simple-difficult it is.


    I *have* looked at your form. It's a mess, quite frankly. I wouldn't
    know where to start with it.

    --
    Dylan Parry
    http://electricfreedom.org -- Where the Music Progressively Rocks!

    Usenet: The first post is free, but the next will cost you your soul.
     
    Dylan Parry, Nov 14, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

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