C++ and Robotics the relations?

Discussion in 'C++' started by =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. Hello. I am a n00b in the field of programming. I studied mIRC, html,
    max script, and very little c++ logistics. I was wondering if what
    specific areas of c++ might help for robotics. If you have heard of
    FIRST. I am a member on one of the robotics teams known as Team 1241. I
    was once a junior programmer on their team however I did not live upto
    their expectations since my knowledge of c++ was very very very little.
    Now I come forth to you asking for your help. Does anyone know what
    specific areas of c++ i should study to help program the robot do such
    tasks example: going up and down or moving an arm etc.



    ~Saki
    =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=, Sep 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. ÉmÏÄ“ror Åšaki wrote:
    > Hello. I am a n00b in the field of programming. I studied mIRC, html,
    > max script, and very little c++ logistics. I was wondering if what
    > specific areas of c++ might help for robotics. If you have heard of
    > FIRST. I am a member on one of the robotics teams known as Team 1241. I
    > was once a junior programmer on their team however I did not live upto
    > their expectations since my knowledge of c++ was very very very little.
    > Now I come forth to you asking for your help. Does anyone know what
    > specific areas of c++ i should study to help program the robot do such
    > tasks example: going up and down or moving an arm etc.


    Your majesty:

    If you have the ability to contact the team that rejected your attempts
    to perform as part of it due to lack of C++ experience, wouldn't it make
    more sense to ask that team about the actual knowledge they expect in
    one who wants to be part of the team?

    AFAIK C++, it does not contain any robotics-specific mechanisms or
    features, which suggests that robotics programming is done using some
    specific to robotics libraries. That can only mean one thing: you need
    to look for those libraries and/or ask people involved with robotics about
    them. I know a very good way to find people involved with robotics: post
    to a newsgroup that deals with _robotics_, not to a newsgroup that deals
    with a general purpose programming language.

    V
    Victor Bazarov, Sep 1, 2005
    #2
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  3. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Steven Guest

    Study everything, especially the libraries you will be using, read
    books, and practice, practice, practice.
    Steven, Sep 1, 2005
    #3
  4. "Ém?eror Saki" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello. I am a n00b in the field of programming. I studied mIRC, html,
    > max script, and very little c++ logistics. I was wondering if what
    > specific areas of c++ might help for robotics. If you have heard of
    > FIRST. I am a member on one of the robotics teams known as Team 1241. I
    > was once a junior programmer on their team however I did not live upto
    > their expectations since my knowledge of c++ was very very very little.
    > Now I come forth to you asking for your help. Does anyone know what
    > specific areas of c++ i should study to help program the robot do such
    > tasks example: going up and down or moving an arm etc.


    Things you need to know about C++ are not specific to robotics.
    Study the core language, standard libraries, object-oriented programming and
    design patterns.
    A good book is Accelerated C++:
    http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/.
    Also consider Thinking in C++, for which a free pdf version is available:
    http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

    Things you need to know about robotics are not specific to C++.
    Your group most likely uses specific libraries (internally or externally
    developed) that you should get familiar with. These could include tools for
    motion control outputs, modeling the geometry of robots, rendering, and much
    more...

    Regards,
    Ivan

    NB: I work with www.xitact.com, which I think is considering collaboration
    with one of the FIRST projects.
    --
    http://ivan.vecerina.com/contact/?subject=NG_POST <- email contact form
    Brainbench MVP for C++ <> http://www.brainbench.com
    Ivan Vecerina, Sep 2, 2005
    #4
  5. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Guest

    ÉmÏÄ“ror Åšaki wrote:
    > Hello. I am a n00b in the field of programming. I studied mIRC, html,
    > max script, and very little c++ logistics. I was wondering if what
    > specific areas of c++ might help for robotics. If you have heard of
    > FIRST. I am a member on one of the robotics teams known as Team 1241. I
    > was once a junior programmer on their team however I did not live upto
    > their expectations since my knowledge of c++ was very very very little.
    > Now I come forth to you asking for your help. Does anyone know what
    > specific areas of c++ i should study to help program the robot do such
    > tasks example: going up and down or moving an arm etc.
    >
    >
    >
    > ~Saki



    To more directly answer your question, my recommendation is to become
    familiar with what hardware to use. For example, if you are using
    serial devices, you will need to know how to write to a serial port.
    What you send to those ports is based of the hardware you use.

    If you are not already, I would become familiar with the basics of
    robotic/RC systems. PWM, Servos, Speed Controllers, etc.. To further
    that, start looking into path planning, geolocation, etc...

    Someone in this thread also mentioned something about OOP...Robotic
    systems can get very complex. OOP is critical from the begining.


    --
    Lee V. Mangold
    Research Assistant
    University of Central Florida
    Institute for Simulation and Training
    , Sep 11, 2005
    #5
  6. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Guest

    Steven wrote:
    > Study everything, especially the libraries you will be using, read
    > books, and practice, practice, practice.


    While I'm not the best coder in the world, a thing I've learned is: do
    not read books. Read docs instead. Same time spent reading docs gets
    you 2x the knowledge than that of reading books. Plus docs are free,
    and books are not. It might seem that chewing-every-thing books are
    better for a n00b, but they are not. Quality of self-gained knowledge
    is better. With that said, I completely agree on "the libraries you
    will be using" part. Just thought I'll let you know before you have
    actually started to read books :)
    , Sep 27, 2005
    #6
  7. wrote:
    > Steven wrote:
    >
    >>Study everything, especially the libraries you will be using, read
    >>books, and practice, practice, practice.

    >
    >
    > While I'm not the best coder in the world, a thing I've learned is: do
    > not read books. [...]


    That could be the reason (or a symptom of a reason) why you're not the
    best coder. Although, you may be right, if all you aspire to be is
    a coder, why bother reading books? They just interfere by trying to
    teach you how to _engineer_ your software... Nah. One can't become the
    best of anything if one dismisses at least one source of knowledge.

    Did you hear one about this guy who did something stupid, and his wife
    is scolding him, "You're an idiot! You're such an idiot!! If there was
    a contest of idiots, you'd take the second place!" The guy, "Hey! Why
    only the _second_ place?" The wife replies, "Because you're such
    an idiot!"
    Victor Bazarov, Sep 27, 2005
    #7
  8. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Guest

    Victor Bazarov wrote:
    > ...you're such an idiot!"


    Interesting reaction.

    Once one of my friends had that book from "expert series". It's called
    "mastering hdd secrets" or something. I've opened it at random page,
    you know, just out of interest. There was a picture of hard disk with
    compass needles all over it. I took another random page. Half of it was
    shitty humor. Like in your post (So I see you've learned something from
    books :). I thought than, even old good InterList had more info on
    HDDs. But, on the other hand, you read books - you don't know what
    InterList is.

    Another book on JavaScript, that I had once... I've downloaded 6MB
    JavaScript pdf reference from (now de-funct) Netscape developers
    portal, and I threw that paper piece of shit out for good.

    Well, I don't say I'm right, though... Everyone has to go his own way.
    , Sep 28, 2005
    #8
  9. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    mlimber Guest

    wrote:
    [snip]
    > Once one of my friends had that book from "expert series". It's called
    > "mastering hdd secrets" or something. I've opened it at random page,
    > you know, just out of interest. There was a picture of hard disk with
    > compass needles all over it. I took another random page. Half of it was
    > shitty humor. Like in your post (So I see you've learned something from
    > books :). I thought than, even old good InterList had more info on
    > HDDs. But, on the other hand, you read books - you don't know what
    > InterList is.
    >
    > Another book on JavaScript, that I had once... I've downloaded 6MB
    > JavaScript pdf reference from (now de-funct) Netscape developers
    > portal, and I threw that paper piece of shit out for good.
    >
    > Well, I don't say I'm right, though... Everyone has to go his own way.


    Yours is the fallacy of hasty generalization (cf.
    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html).
    Just because a few technical books that you've read were bad doesn't
    mean all technical books are equally bad. See the FAQ for suggestions
    on good ones.

    Cheers! --M
    mlimber, Sep 28, 2005
    #9
  10. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Kai-Uwe Bux Guest

    mlimber wrote:

    > wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> Once one of my friends had that book from "expert series". It's called
    >> "mastering hdd secrets" or something. I've opened it at random page,
    >> you know, just out of interest. There was a picture of hard disk with
    >> compass needles all over it. I took another random page. Half of it was
    >> shitty humor. Like in your post (So I see you've learned something from
    >> books :). I thought than, even old good InterList had more info on
    >> HDDs. But, on the other hand, you read books - you don't know what
    >> InterList is.
    >>
    >> Another book on JavaScript, that I had once... I've downloaded 6MB
    >> JavaScript pdf reference from (now de-funct) Netscape developers
    >> portal, and I threw that paper piece of shit out for good.
    >>
    >> Well, I don't say I'm right, though... Everyone has to go his own way.

    >
    > Yours is the fallacy of hasty generalization (cf.
    > http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html).
    > Just because a few technical books that you've read were bad doesn't
    > mean all technical books are equally bad. See the FAQ for suggestions
    > on good ones.


    Right,

    and just because the few times (thank goodness) that I touched a hot stove I
    got burnt doesn't mean that all hot stoves are equally dangerous.

    Well, I guess it all depends on what you consider "too small" a sample. Just
    keep in mind that enlarging the sample incurs costs, and there is a point
    where those costs make it unreasonable to do so. That also happens with
    book recommendations. If all books recommended by someone turn out to be
    bad, I will just stop taking that persons suggestions serious.


    Best

    Kai-Uwe Bux
    Kai-Uwe Bux, Sep 28, 2005
    #10
  11. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    mlimber Guest

    Kai-Uwe Bux wrote:
    > mlimber wrote:
    >
    > > Yours is the fallacy of hasty generalization (cf.
    > > http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html).
    > > Just because a few technical books that you've read were bad doesn't
    > > mean all technical books are equally bad. See the FAQ for suggestions
    > > on good ones.

    >
    > Right,
    >
    > and just because the few times (thank goodness) that I touched a hot stove I
    > got burnt doesn't mean that all hot stoves are equally dangerous.


    As the cited description of the fallacy states, "[A] Hasty
    Generalization, like any fallacy, might have a true conclusion.
    However, as long as the reasoning is fallacious there is no reason to
    accept the conclusion based on that reasoning."

    > Well, I guess it all depends on what you consider "too small" a sample. Just
    > keep in mind that enlarging the sample incurs costs, and there is a point
    > where those costs make it unreasonable to do so. That also happens with
    > book recommendations. If all books recommended by someone turn out to be
    > bad, I will just stop taking that persons suggestions serious.


    Agreed.

    Cheers! --M
    mlimber, Sep 28, 2005
    #11
  12. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Guest

    mlimber wrote:
    > Yours is the fallacy of hasty generalization...
    > Just because a few technical books that you've read were bad doesn't
    > mean all technical books are equally bad. See the FAQ for suggestions
    > on good ones.


    You can equally state directly opposite. E.g.,

    "You have failed to generalize your experience...
    Just because a few technical books that you've read were good doesn't
    mean all technical books are equally good. See the amazon.com for
    suggestions on bad ones."

    There are lots, fuckin huge loads of shit in book stores, forgive me my
    rude language (and this isn't even my language, but duh). It just does
    not make any sense to read 10 books to find only 1 of them is good,
    when everything you ever need to do this small piece of code is right
    here in well-designed hypertext help file you've got.
    , Sep 28, 2005
    #12
  13. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    mlimber Guest

    wrote:
    > mlimber wrote:
    > > Yours is the fallacy of hasty generalization...
    > > Just because a few technical books that you've read were bad doesn't
    > > mean all technical books are equally bad. See the FAQ for suggestions
    > > on good ones.

    >
    > You can equally state directly opposite. E.g.,
    >
    > "You have failed to generalize your experience...
    > Just because a few technical books that you've read were good doesn't
    > mean all technical books are equally good. See the amazon.com for
    > suggestions on bad ones."


    Right, and that would also be a fallacy -- the fallacy of composition
    (cf. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html). I did
    not commit it, however.

    > There are lots, fuckin huge loads of shit in book stores, forgive me my
    > rude language (and this isn't even my language, but duh).


    Forgiving your rude language (which belongs to no one but you), we all
    agree that there are indeed bad books out there.

    > It just does
    > not make any sense to read 10 books to find only 1 of them is good,
    > when everything you ever need to do this small piece of code is right
    > here in well-designed hypertext help file you've got.


    The question is, Is "*everything* you ever need to do" in that one
    hypertext file? For me, I daresay, it would not be simply because a
    single, small resource can't cover everything I need to know about. You
    don't have to read every book out there to find out which ones are
    good. You can get advice from trusted sources, e.g., magazine reviews,
    your colleagues, your project manager, and perhaps even people on this
    newsgroup.

    Cheers! --M
    mlimber, Sep 28, 2005
    #13
  14. =?utf-8?B?w4ltz4HEk3JvciDFmmFraQ==?=

    Guest

    mlimber wrote:
    > The question is, Is "*everything* you ever need to do" in that one
    > hypertext file? For me... small resource can't cover everything
    > I need to know about.

    Hey, it was not about "everything I need to know about", it's about
    "to know enough to start working with this system/tool/programming
    language/library/etc". Don't take it where it doesn't belong to.

    > You
    > don't have to read every book out there to find out which ones are
    > good. You can get advice from trusted sources, e.g., magazine reviews,
    > your colleagues, your project manager, and perhaps even people on this
    > newsgroup.

    "I trust noone... not even myself." /allegedly J. Stalin/
    , Sep 29, 2005
    #14
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