C is best

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by vgnsh2@gmail.com, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. Guest

    C is the best because the hackers is most use the C lang
     
    , Apr 28, 2008
    #1
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  2. Alef Veld Guest

    On 2008-04-29 00:20:27 +0200, Yep <yep@yep> said:

    > wrote:
    >> C is the best because the hackers is most use the C lang

    >
    > Is that the only reason you can think of why C is good?


    It's actually a pretty good reason. If by hackers the troll means C
    programming experts, which i assume for this post, then volume in
    numbers can't be a bad thing. But it only stands with the previous
    assumption though.
     
    Alef Veld, Apr 28, 2008
    #2
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  3. Yep Guest

    wrote:
    > C is the best because the hackers is most use the C lang


    Is that the only reason you can think of why C is good?
     
    Yep, Apr 28, 2008
    #3
  4. Ricky Guest

    On Apr 29, 2:42 am, Alef Veld <> wrote:
    > On 2008-04-29 00:20:27 +0200, Yep <yep@yep> said:
    >
    > > wrote:
    > >> C is the best because the hackers is most use the C lang

    >
    > > Is that the only reason you can think of why C is good?

    >
    > It's actually a pretty good reason. If by hackers the troll means C
    > programming experts, which i assume for this post, then volume in
    > numbers can't be a bad thing. But it only stands with the previous
    > assumption though.


    If C is best because hackers (expert programmers) use it, then I would
    like to stress on - Why do hackers use it :). The answer would then
    go for why C is best ;-)
     
    Ricky, Apr 29, 2008
    #4
  5. Sumit Guest

    On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:26:00 -0700, vgnsh2 wrote:

    > C is the best because the hackers is most use the C lang


    C can change your way of thinking, C gives every thing to make your self,
    as mother is the first teacher of child just like C is the mother of all
    hackers. through C we can understand computer. C is the best.
     
    Sumit, Apr 29, 2008
    #5
  6. fnegroni Guest

    I was recently hacking into the OpenSSH client (ssh) source code.
    It is written in C, and although some code structuring choices are
    debatable, thanks to C's explicit flow of control and "transparent
    box" approach, it was a matter of minutes to figure out where to
    change code. And the changes themeselves did not take long to
    implement.
    In the ssh client code functions are very long for no apparent reason
    to me, and some structures are statically initialised where a dynamic
    initialisation would probably have been best.
    The change involved adding an extra option on the command line,
    changing the password retrieval system and reordering the
    authentication methods.
    Not a big change, so as expected it did not take long to implement.
    I have been programming in C, C++ Java and more recently Python.
    Of all those languages, C is the only one where I can see how
    productivity and expressiveness increase can be factually measured.
     
    fnegroni, Apr 29, 2008
    #6
  7. fnegroni Guest

    I wouldn't go as far to say C++ is dead. But certainly it has now
    reached critical mass.
    You'll soon find Python is replacing Java in many environments.
     
    fnegroni, Apr 29, 2008
    #7
  8. Ricky Guest

    On Apr 29, 11:15 am, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > Ricky said:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > > If C is best because hackers (expert programmers) use it, then I would
    > > like to stress on - Why do hackers use it :).

    >
    > It's obvious - they use it because it's the best.
    >
    > --
    > Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    > Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    > Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    > "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999


    best in what terms, you could have added many things like: expressive,
    fast, good low level interface, etc etc. It depends on what you are
    trying to do.
     
    Ricky, Apr 29, 2008
    #8
  9. fnegroni Guest

    It is a very easy to measure it. Just like assembler.

    And IMHO measurability is the attribute that makes or brakes a
    language.

    All languages subject to opinion (read hype) more than fact dies a
    (slow/fast) death.
     
    fnegroni, Apr 29, 2008
    #9
  10. pereges Guest

    I found C's syntax is simpler than java and c++. I don't know which
    one is the most powerful language but I think C will not die easily.
    It is becoming increasingly popular for scientific applications.
    I'm not very sure about the current trends in gaming industry because
    even though many popular games have been made in C, every time I go to
    game development forums I see people posting C++ codes.
     
    pereges, Apr 29, 2008
    #10
  11. santosh Guest

    Ricky wrote:

    > On Apr 29, 11:15 am, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >> Ricky said:
    >>
    >> <snip>
    >>
    >> > If C is best because hackers (expert programmers) use it, then I
    >> > would like to stress on - Why do hackers use it :).

    >>
    >> It's obvious - they use it because it's the best.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    >> Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    >> Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    >> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999

    >
    > best in what terms, you could have added many things like: expressive,
    > fast, good low level interface, etc etc. It depends on what you are
    > trying to do.


    In a recent interview Brian Kernighan (a close colleague of Dennis
    Ritchie and a co-author with him for K&R) was asked about his
    explanation for why C became as widely used as it did. He mentioned one
    reason, in his opinion, was because C "hit a sweet spot" between very
    low-level languages like assembler and Forth and more high-level
    languages like LISP, Java etc.

    This meant that with proper care it was possible to go as close to the
    machine as any compiled language could, but with a little effort and
    infrastructure, one could also write programs with fairly high
    abstraction and platform independence. This allowed it to be used for a
    relatively larger range of programs than other alternative languages in
    those days. Assembler was very efficient but was getting difficult to
    program and maintain large code bases with, and moreover had absolutely
    no portability. BCPL and B suffered from being only thin layers over
    assembler. COBOL and LISP were too high-level to consider writing
    system code with, while FORTRAN (at that time) lacked many things like
    pointers, separate compilation etc.

    The success of C could probably be explained as an outcome of a flexible
    yet portable language being developed at a time when a need for such a
    language was acutely felt. The IBM PC advent also undoubtedly helped
    C's reach and presence.

    A web search for "Brian Kernighan interview" might get you the actual
    interview.
     
    santosh, Apr 29, 2008
    #11
  12. santosh Guest

    pereges wrote:

    > I found C's syntax is simpler than java and c++. I don't know which
    > one is the most powerful language [ ... ]


    All three are Turing complete and hence, from a theoretical perspective,
    capable of the same range of computation. Practically speaking they
    each serve different niches and each is going to be around for at least
    a decade more.
     
    santosh, Apr 29, 2008
    #12
  13. In article <fv7keq$i9n$>,
    santosh <> wrote:

    >> I found C's syntax is simpler than java and c++. I don't know which
    >> one is the most powerful language [ ... ]


    >All three are Turing complete and hence, from a theoretical perspective,
    >capable of the same range of computation.


    That's true for one particular restricted meaning of "powerful", but
    it is frequently used less formally. In the less formal sense, C++ is
    clearly more powerful since it's a superset[*] of C, and I think most
    people would also consider Java to be. But powerfulness is not
    everything!

    [*] Yes, I know.

    -- Richard
    --
    :wq
     
    Richard Tobin, Apr 29, 2008
    #13
  14. On Apr 29, 2:34 pm, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > Ricky said:
    >
    > > On Apr 29, 11:15 am, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    > >> Ricky said:

    >
    > >> <snip>

    >
    > >> > If C is best because hackers (expert programmers) use it, then I would
    > >> > like to stress on - Why do hackers use it :).

    >
    > >> It's obvious - they use it because it's the best.

    >
    > > best in what terms,

    >
    > In whatever terms your original reply intended.
    >
    > > you could have added many things like: expressive,
    > > fast, good low level interface, etc etc. It depends on what you are
    > > trying to do.

    >
    > Yes. What I was trying to do was give the subject all the gravity and
    > profundity of thought that it deserved, and I think I succeeded admirably.



    I don't. I think you used far too much gravity and profundity of
    thought.

    -William Hughes
     
    William Hughes, Apr 30, 2008
    #14
  15. William Hughes <> writes:

    > On Apr 29, 2:34 pm, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >> Ricky said:
    >>
    >> > On Apr 29, 11:15 am, Richard Heathfield <> wrote:
    >> >> Ricky said:

    >>
    >> >> <snip>

    >>
    >> >> > If C is best because hackers (expert programmers) use it, then I would
    >> >> > like to stress on - Why do hackers use it :).

    >>
    >> >> It's obvious - they use it because it's the best.

    >>
    >> > best in what terms,

    >>
    >> In whatever terms your original reply intended.
    >>
    >> > you could have added many things like: expressive,
    >> > fast, good low level interface, etc etc. It depends on what you are
    >> > trying to do.

    >>
    >> Yes. What I was trying to do was give the subject all the gravity and
    >> profundity of thought that it deserved, and I think I succeeded admirably.

    >
    >
    > I don't. I think you used far too much gravity and profundity of
    > thought.
    >
    > -William Hughes


    In addition, hackers are almost never the best programmers. Usually they
    are the worst programmers. Hacking and programming are not synonymous.
     
    Eligiusz Narutowicz, Apr 30, 2008
    #15
  16. santosh Guest

    Eligiusz Narutowicz wrote:

    <snip>

    > In addition, hackers are almost never the best programmers.


    Where is your data for this assertion, or is it just your opinion?

    > Usually they are the worst programmers.


    And what makes you conclude this? Seems to me to be just FUD.

    > Hacking and programming are not synonymous.


    If only we had as clear a definition for hacking as we have for
    programming. There is no broadly accepted definition of the word
    hacker.
     
    santosh, Apr 30, 2008
    #16
  17. santosh <> writes:

    > Eligiusz Narutowicz wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> In addition, hackers are almost never the best programmers.

    >
    > Where is your data for this assertion, or is it just your opinion?
    >


    Years of working as a C programmer to be honest. Most hackers are just
    that - hackers.

    >> Usually they are the worst programmers.

    >
    > And what makes you conclude this? Seems to me to be just FUD.


    There is a reason poor programmers and designers are called "hackers".

    >
    >> Hacking and programming are not synonymous.

    >
    > If only we had as clear a definition for hacking as we have for
    > programming. There is no broadly accepted definition of the word
    > hacker.


    Yes there is.

    When you work in an industry anyone referred to as a "hacker" is
    generally to be avoided much as we can when possible.
     
    Eligiusz Narutowicz, May 1, 2008
    #17
  18. Eligiusz Narutowicz<> writes:
    > santosh <> writes:

    [...]
    >>
    >> There is no broadly accepted definition of the word hacker.

    >
    > Yes there is.


    You are mistaken.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
     
    Keith Thompson, May 1, 2008
    #18
  19. Guest

    On May 1, 11:04 am, Eligiusz Narutowicz<>
    wrote:
    > santosh <> writes:
    > > Eligiusz Narutowicz wrote:

    >
    > > <snip>

    >
    > >> In addition, hackers are almost never the best programmers.

    >
    > > Where is your data for this assertion, or is it just your opinion?

    >
    > Years of working as a C programmer to be honest. Most hackers are just
    > that - hackers.
    >
    > >> Usually they are the worst programmers.

    >
    > > And what makes you conclude this? Seems to me to be just FUD.

    >
    > There is a reason poor programmers and designers are called "hackers".
    >
    >
    >
    > >> Hacking and programming are not synonymous.

    >
    > > If only we had as clear a definition for hacking as we have for
    > > programming. There is no broadly accepted definition of the word
    > > hacker.

    >
    > Yes there is.
    >
    > When you work in an industry anyone referred to as a "hacker" is
    > generally to be avoided much as we can when possible.


    You, as an long-time programmer (as you claim to be), are probably
    thinking about the sense of the word "hack" that is used when
    something in an application is done in a tricky, quick, inconvenient
    and/or unstructured way. Thus, you'd be saying that a "hacker" is
    someone that does that continuously. But that's not the only meaning
    of the word "hack", as everyone has already pointed out, so you can't
    say that that's the only thing (or merely one of the things) that
    characterizes a hacker.


    > Years of working as a C programmer to be honest. Most hackers are just
    > that - hackers.


    You could also say things like "a programmer is only a programmer," or
    "a hero is just a hero," or even "God is only God." But what's your
    point?
     
    , May 1, 2008
    #19
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