C#, without knee-jerk panic

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Much of the reaction to C# seems to have been emotionally based negativity.

There are things about C# that I have issue with, sure, but I would still
like to learn more of it. I /love/ Java, been there since the beginning,
but still have complaints about the language, and I'm always open to
alternatives no matter how perfect a current langugae may seem.

I can certainly dive in and learn C# on my own. Been doing that ad-hoc here
and there. No biggie. Learning a new language is a fairly easy thing for
any of us to do, even for the weirdest ones.

But.

Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that java
folks have been impressed with.

THANKS!

 

[Cid]

Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that java
folks have been impressed with.

msdn.microsoft.com

 

[Steven J Sobol]

msdn.microsoft.com

Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE. They do
an incredible job of keeping all of the information organized. M$ claims
there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN site, and I can believe that...

My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to document new
technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this won't be an issue.

--SJS

*Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about them that
don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE.
They do an incredible job of keeping all of the information
organized. M$ claims there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN
site, and I can believe that...

My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to document
new technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this won't be an
issue.

--SJS

*Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about them
that don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.

What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any extent
at all worth mentioning?

 

[Michael N. Christoff]

What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any extent
at all worth mentioning?

There is Mono. And theoretically one could implement C# for Java bytecode
since the language spec is an ECMA standard. However, learning C# is not
the problem (it is extremely easy to pick up the language if you come from a
Java background, and even easier if you come from a Java/C/C++ background),
it is the MS APIs (which are mostly proprietary). Its like trying to get a
Java job knowing only the Java language spec while having never touched
JDBC/Swing/Servlets/J2EE, etc...

As for websites, have you tried devx.com?



l8r, Mike N. Christoff

 

[Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any
extent at all worth mentioning?

Mono: http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html

DotGnu: http://www.dotgnu.org/

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

"Thomas G. Marshall"


There is Mono. And theoretically one could implement C# for Java
bytecode since the language spec is an ECMA standard. However,
learning C# is not the problem (it is extremely easy to pick up the
language if you come from a Java background, and even easier if you
come from a Java/C/C++ background), it is the MS APIs (which are
mostly proprietary). Its like trying to get a Java job knowing only
the Java language spec while having never touched
JDBC/Swing/Servlets/J2EE, etc...

Yes, I figgered as much

 

[Shane Mingins]

Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that java
folks have been impressed with.

You may be interested in:
http://www.devx.com/SummitDays/Article/10902

I liked Adventures in C#: Ron Jeffries http://www.xprogramming.com

HTH
Shane


--
“Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best, 20-20
hindsight.
It's good for seeing where you've been. It's good for testing the truth of
what you think
you know, but it can't tell you where you ought to go.”

- Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - ) -
US novelist, writer

 

[Liz]

"Thomas G. Marshall"

wrote in message news:6dQNc.11910


You may be interested in:
http://www.devx.com/SummitDays/Article/10902

I liked Adventures in C#: Ron Jeffries http://www.xprogramming.com

HTH
Shane


--
“Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best, 20-20
hindsight.
It's good for seeing where you've been. It's good for testing the truth of
what you think
you know, but it can't tell you where you ought to go.”

- Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - ) -
US novelist, writer

Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
a special business requirement.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
a special business requirement.

I assume you're asking me. I am half-wondering if there exists a C# version
/outside/ the windows platform altogether.

But it seems unlikely that such a thing would be worth learning since, as
pointed out earlier, all the api's would be gone.

 

[Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
a special business requirement.

Perhaps they want to use C# on Linux? Then the option is Mono.

 

[Liz]

Perhaps they want to use C# on Linux? Then the option is Mono.

are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?
what would you use for the equivalent of swing?

 

[Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?

They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
of the license.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
of the license.

Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
eating their business like candy.

 

[Michael N. Christoff]

Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
eating their business like candy.

At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current support
for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.

http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES



l8r, Mike N. Christoff

 

[Michael N. Christoff]

"Thomas G. Marshall"

wrote in message news:YwwOc.536$%J6.115@trndny07...

At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current support
for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.

http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES

I'm of course referring to their 'Java Enterprise System' package.



l8r, Mike N. Christoff

 

[Liz]

"Thomas G. Marshall"

wrote in message news:YwwOc.536$%J6.115@trndny07...

At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current support
for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.

http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES



l8r, Mike N. Christoff

Already 3-5 years ago Stratus supported HP-UX.
Part of their sales strategy:
"don't like our software? then use HP software
right out of the box."

 

[Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
eating their business like candy.

Er, Sun ships Intel-based systems with SuSE Linux (plus their
Java-oriented extras). I'd say that is "feeding" the business, not
"eating" it.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

"Thomas G. Marshall"


Er, Sun ships Intel-based systems with SuSE Linux (plus their
Java-oriented extras). I'd say that is "feeding" the business, not
"eating" it.

They did that only because they had no choice.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/40mcnealy.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

"McNealy's Last Stand

Technical muscle and a history of innovation made
Sun a Silicon Valley standard-bearer. It also blinded
famously combative Scott McNealy to the coming
Linux wars. Now he's fighting to survive."

This has already been discussed at length but basically sun is in serious
trouble, mostly because of linux:

1. linux is free
2. linux is powerful
3. It competes against Sun's Solaris operating system
which is expensive
4. It clobbers their hardware sales because when people
go the linux route, they're thinking intel boxes.
5. "large systems" are now often seamlessly replaced by
collections of smaller systems, ironically with the aid of
technology like EJB.

Basically, everywhere sun turns, the world has found a cheaper (by far)
alternative.