C#, without knee-jerk panic

Discussion in 'Java' started by Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. Much of the reaction to C# seems to have been emotionally based negativity.

    There are things about C# that I have issue with, sure, but I would still
    like to learn more of it. I /love/ Java, been there since the beginning,
    but still have complaints about the language, and I'm always open to
    alternatives no matter how perfect a current langugae may seem.

    I can certainly dive in and learn C# on my own. Been doing that ad-hoc here
    and there. No biggie. Learning a new language is a fairly easy thing for
    any of us to do, even for the weirdest ones.

    But.

    Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
    mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
    arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
    occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that java
    folks have been impressed with.

    THANKS!


    --
    While using is ok, actually /writing/ free software is a disingenuous
    activity. You can afford to write software for free only because of someone
    else somewhere actually paying for it. Just say no.
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 28, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Thomas G. Marshall

    Cid Guest

    On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:09:38 GMT, "Thomas G. Marshall"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
    >mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
    >arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
    >occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that java
    >folks have been impressed with.
    >


    msdn.microsoft.com
     
    Cid, Jul 28, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Cid <> wrote:

    > msdn.microsoft.com


    Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE. They do
    an incredible job of keeping all of the information organized. M$ claims
    there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN site, and I can believe that...

    My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to document new
    technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this won't be an issue.

    --SJS

    *Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about them that
    don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.


    --
    JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
    Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
    PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
    Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
     
    Steven J Sobol, Jul 28, 2004
    #3
  4. Steven J Sobol <> coughed up the following:
    > Cid <> wrote:
    >
    >> msdn.microsoft.com

    >
    > Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE.
    > They do an incredible job of keeping all of the information
    > organized. M$ claims there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN
    > site, and I can believe that...
    >
    > My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to document
    > new technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this won't be an
    > issue.
    >
    > --SJS
    >
    > *Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about them
    > that don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.



    What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any extent
    at all worth mentioning?



    --
    Onedoctortoanother:"Ifthisismyrectalthermometer,wherethehell'smypen???"
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 29, 2004
    #4
  5. "Thomas G. Marshall" <>
    wrote in message news:RmWNc.12257$3k3.715@trndny02...
    > Steven J Sobol <> coughed up the following:
    > > Cid <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> msdn.microsoft.com

    > >
    > > Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE.
    > > They do an incredible job of keeping all of the information
    > > organized. M$ claims there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN
    > > site, and I can believe that...
    > >
    > > My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to document
    > > new technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this won't be an
    > > issue.
    > >
    > > --SJS
    > >
    > > *Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about them
    > > that don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.

    >
    >
    > What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any extent
    > at all worth mentioning?
    >


    There is Mono. And theoretically one could implement C# for Java bytecode
    since the language spec is an ECMA standard. However, learning C# is not
    the problem (it is extremely easy to pick up the language if you come from a
    Java background, and even easier if you come from a Java/C/C++ background),
    it is the MS APIs (which are mostly proprietary). Its like trying to get a
    Java job knowing only the Java language spec while having never touched
    JDBC/Swing/Servlets/J2EE, etc...

    As for websites, have you tried devx.com?



    l8r, Mike N. Christoff
     
    Michael N. Christoff, Jul 29, 2004
    #5
  6. Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Jul 29, 2004
    #6
  7. Michael N. Christoff <> coughed up the
    following:
    > "Thomas G. Marshall"
    > <> wrote in
    > message news:RmWNc.12257$3k3.715@trndny02...
    >> Steven J Sobol <> coughed up the following:
    >>> Cid <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> msdn.microsoft.com
    >>>
    >>> Yeah - say what you want about Microsoft - this site is COMPLETE.
    >>> They do an incredible job of keeping all of the information
    >>> organized. M$ claims there is over a terabyte of info on the MSDN
    >>> site, and I can believe that...
    >>>
    >>> My major bitch about Microsoft* is that they take forever to
    >>> document new technologies, but C# obviously isn't new, so this
    >>> won't be an issue.
    >>>
    >>> --SJS
    >>>
    >>> *Developer-wise, anyhow. I have plenty of other complaints about
    >>> them that don't have to do with being a M$-platform developer.

    >>
    >>
    >> What is the state of non-MS C#? To what extent does it exist? Any
    >> extent at all worth mentioning?
    >>

    >
    > There is Mono. And theoretically one could implement C# for Java
    > bytecode since the language spec is an ECMA standard. However,
    > learning C# is not the problem (it is extremely easy to pick up the
    > language if you come from a Java background, and even easier if you
    > come from a Java/C/C++ background), it is the MS APIs (which are
    > mostly proprietary). Its like trying to get a Java job knowing only
    > the Java language spec while having never touched
    > JDBC/Swing/Servlets/J2EE, etc...


    Yes, I figgered as much :(


    >
    > As for websites, have you tried devx.com?
    >
    >
    >
    > l8r, Mike N. Christoff


    --
    It'salwaysbeenmygoalinlifetocreateasignaturethatendedwiththeword"blarphoogy"
    ..
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 29, 2004
    #7
  8. "Thomas G. Marshall" <>
    wrote in message news:6dQNc.11910
    >
    > Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
    > mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
    > arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
    > occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that

    java
    > folks have been impressed with.



    You may be interested in:
    http://www.devx.com/SummitDays/Article/10902

    I liked Adventures in C#: Ron Jeffries http://www.xprogramming.com

    HTH
    Shane


    --
    “Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best, 20-20
    hindsight.
    It's good for seeing where you've been. It's good for testing the truth of
    what you think
    you know, but it can't tell you where you ought to go.”

    - Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - ) -
    US novelist, writer
     
    Shane Mingins, Jul 29, 2004
    #8
  9. Thomas G. Marshall

    Liz Guest

    "Shane Mingins" <> wrote in message
    news:4109740d$...
    > "Thomas G. Marshall"

    <>
    > wrote in message news:6dQNc.11910
    > >
    > > Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a java
    > > mindset? Something a little more even handed than the crucifix holding
    > > arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book like that, and the
    > > occasional collection of web pages, but I'm looking for something that

    > java
    > > folks have been impressed with.

    >
    >
    > You may be interested in:
    > http://www.devx.com/SummitDays/Article/10902
    >
    > I liked Adventures in C#: Ron Jeffries http://www.xprogramming.com
    >
    > HTH
    > Shane
    >
    >
    > --
    > “Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best, 20-20
    > hindsight.
    > It's good for seeing where you've been. It's good for testing the truth

    of
    > what you think
    > you know, but it can't tell you where you ought to go.”
    >
    > - Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - ) -
    > US novelist, writer
    >


    Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
    why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
    a special business requirement.
     
    Liz, Jul 30, 2004
    #9
  10. Liz <> coughed up the following:
    > "Shane Mingins" <> wrote in message
    > news:4109740d$...
    >> "Thomas G. Marshall"
    >> <> wrote in
    >> message news:6dQNc.11910
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone have a /favorite/ website devoted to learning C# from a
    >>> java mindset? Something a little more even handed than the
    >>> crucifix holding arguments perhaps? I've seen at least one book
    >>> like that, and the occasional collection of web pages, but I'm
    >>> looking for something that java folks have been impressed with.

    >>
    >>
    >> You may be interested in:
    >> http://www.devx.com/SummitDays/Article/10902
    >>
    >> I liked Adventures in C#: Ron Jeffries http://www.xprogramming.com
    >>
    >> HTH
    >> Shane
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> “Traditional scientific method has always been at the very best,
    >> 20-20 hindsight.
    >> It's good for seeing where you've been. It's good for testing the
    >> truth of what you think
    >> you know, but it can't tell you where you ought to go.”
    >>
    >> - Robert M. Pirsig (1928 - ) -
    >> US novelist, writer
    >>

    >
    > Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
    > why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
    > a special business requirement.


    I assume you're asking me. I am half-wondering if there exists a C# version
    /outside/ the windows platform altogether.

    But it seems unlikely that such a thing would be worth learning since, as
    pointed out earlier, all the api's would be gone.


    --
    Forgetthesong,I'dratherhavethefrontallobotomy...
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 30, 2004
    #10
  11. "Liz" <> writes:

    > Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
    > why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
    > a special business requirement.


    Perhaps they want to use C# on Linux? Then the option is Mono.
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Jul 30, 2004
    #11
  12. Thomas G. Marshall

    Liz Guest

    "Tor Iver Wilhelmsen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Liz" <> writes:
    >
    > > Since MS has a free version of the c# compiler and stuff,
    > > why would you want to use some other version, maybe it is
    > > a special business requirement.

    >
    > Perhaps they want to use C# on Linux? Then the option is Mono.


    are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?
    what would you use for the equivalent of swing?
     
    Liz, Jul 30, 2004
    #12
  13. "Liz" <> writes:

    > are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?


    They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
    Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
    of the license.
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Jul 30, 2004
    #13
  14. Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> coughed up the
    following:
    > "Liz" <> writes:
    >
    >> are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?

    >
    > They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
    > Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
    > of the license.


    Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
    eating their business like candy.

    --
    "So I just, uh... I just cut them up like regular chickens?"
    "Sure, just cut them up like regular chickens."
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 30, 2004
    #14
  15. "Thomas G. Marshall" <>
    wrote in message news:YwwOc.536$%J6.115@trndny07...
    > Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> coughed up the
    > following:
    > > "Liz" <> writes:
    > >
    > >> are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?

    > >
    > > They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
    > > Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
    > > of the license.

    >
    > Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
    > eating their business like candy.
    >


    At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
    days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
    operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
    x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current support
    for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.

    http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES



    l8r, Mike N. Christoff
     
    Michael N. Christoff, Jul 30, 2004
    #15
  16. "Michael N. Christoff" <> wrote in message
    news:TJxOc.10937$...
    >
    > "Thomas G. Marshall"

    <>
    > wrote in message news:YwwOc.536$%J6.115@trndny07...
    > > Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> coughed up the
    > > following:
    > > > "Liz" <> writes:
    > > >
    > > >> are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?
    > > >
    > > > They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
    > > > Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
    > > > of the license.

    > >
    > > Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
    > > eating their business like candy.
    > >

    >
    > At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
    > days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
    > operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
    > x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current

    support
    > for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.
    >
    > http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES
    >


    I'm of course referring to their 'Java Enterprise System' package.



    l8r, Mike N. Christoff
     
    Michael N. Christoff, Jul 30, 2004
    #16
  17. Thomas G. Marshall

    Liz Guest

    "Michael N. Christoff" <> wrote in message
    news:TJxOc.10937$...
    >
    > "Thomas G. Marshall"

    <>
    > wrote in message news:YwwOc.536$%J6.115@trndny07...
    > > Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> coughed up the
    > > following:
    > > > "Liz" <> writes:
    > > >
    > > >> are you sure that MS doesn't have something that runs on linux?
    > > >
    > > > They have a not-for-profit implementation for *BSD, I seem to recall.
    > > > Remember: Microsoft doesn't like Linux, Microsoft likes BSD, because
    > > > of the license.

    > >
    > > Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
    > > eating their business like candy.
    > >

    >
    > At least Sun seems to be in a "if we can't beat'em, join'em" mood these
    > days. And not just about Linux. They're adding support for HP's Unix
    > operating system, HP-UX, on the PA-RISC architecture, and Windows for
    > x86-based hardware (including Opteron) in addition to their current

    support
    > for Sun Solaris and Red Hat Linux.
    >
    > http://www.computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,94823,00.html?nlid=ES
    >
    >
    >
    > l8r, Mike N. Christoff
    >
    >

    Already 3-5 years ago Stratus supported HP-UX.
    Part of their sales strategy:
    "don't like our software? then use HP software
    right out of the box."
     
    Liz, Jul 30, 2004
    #17
  18. "Thomas G. Marshall" <> writes:

    > Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't. It's
    > eating their business like candy.


    Er, Sun ships Intel-based systems with SuSE Linux (plus their
    Java-oriented extras). I'd say that is "feeding" the business, not
    "eating" it.
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Jul 31, 2004
    #18
  19. Tor Iver Wilhelmsen <> coughed up the
    following:
    > "Thomas G. Marshall"
    > <> writes:
    >
    >> Microsoft doesn't like linux for the same reason that Sun doesn't.
    >> It's
    >> eating their business like candy.

    >
    > Er, Sun ships Intel-based systems with SuSE Linux (plus their
    > Java-oriented extras). I'd say that is "feeding" the business, not
    > "eating" it.



    They did that only because they had no choice.

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.07/40mcnealy.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

    "McNealy's Last Stand

    Technical muscle and a history of innovation made
    Sun a Silicon Valley standard-bearer. It also blinded
    famously combative Scott McNealy to the coming
    Linux wars. Now he's fighting to survive."

    This has already been discussed at length but basically sun is in serious
    trouble, mostly because of linux:

    1. linux is free
    2. linux is powerful
    3. It competes against Sun's Solaris operating system
    which is expensive
    4. It clobbers their hardware sales because when people
    go the linux route, they're thinking intel boxes.
    5. "large systems" are now often seamlessly replaced by
    collections of smaller systems, ironically with the aid of
    technology like EJB.

    Basically, everywhere sun turns, the world has found a cheaper (by far)
    alternative.




    --
    "So I just, uh... I just cut them up like regular chickens?"
    "Sure, just cut them up like regular chickens."
     
    Thomas G. Marshall, Jul 31, 2004
    #19
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Tsahi Levent-Levi
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    2,020
    Tsahi Levent-Levi
    Aug 15, 2003
  2. Beast
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    866
    Chris Smith
    Feb 22, 2004
  3. Dimitri Ognibene
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    646
    Dimitri Ognibene
    Apr 25, 2006
  4. Carlos Albert

    Panic: error trying to debug

    Carlos Albert, Jun 2, 2006, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    359
    Carlos Albert
    Jun 2, 2006
  5. Kenny

    If you think Kenny is a jerk...

    Kenny, Oct 12, 2008, in forum: Javascript
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    96
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
    Oct 12, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page