Call to Update All Tutorials to Python3.x Standards.

Discussion in 'Python' started by rantingrick, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. rantingrick

    rantingrick Guest

    We need to start demanding that folks move towards 3.0 compliance with
    their tutorials. Most of the functionality in Python3000 is available
    from the __future__ module, especially in Python2.6 and up. There is
    no reason to continue supporting deprecated tutorials. If someone is
    still using an very old version of Python then they should learn from
    the official tutorial.

    However just ignoring the currently outdated tutorials is NOT enough,
    we must modify them or destroy them. This is the only way we can
    guarantee that confusion is not propagated through the ranks of new
    users. We must reign in this multiplicity and we must move forward in
    our evolution. Some folks will need to be brought into compliance
    kicking and screaming... so be it!

    If they are not willing to move forward then we must demand that they
    annotate their tutorials as OUT OF DATE with very prominent warnings.
    These annotations need to exists on every page and everywhere a new
    feature has superseded an old feature. Also it would also be wise to
    include a link to the relevant part of the official tutorial that
    showcases the new syntax/functionality. Like for instance the print
    function, string formatting, etc, etc.

    If any tutorial owners refuse to cooperate we need to remove their
    tutorials (and/or links to their tutorials) from the official Python
    website forever. We must not be a party to multiplicity. We must stand
    united to move the Python code base forward and into 3.0 compliance.
    You can always read the official tutorial of an old version if you
    need to, but we cannot allow confusion to exists on the internet. This
    will be a painful blow to some, but progress is far more important
    than any one persons "feelings" getting hurt. We must move forward,
    and if that means leaving some selfish folks behind THEN SO BE IT!
    rantingrick, Feb 13, 2011
    #1
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  2. rantingrick

    rantingrick Guest

    PS:

    ------------------
    Open Invitation:
    ------------------

    I am more than willing to help out those who need to bring Python2.x
    tutorials into 3.x compliance (and i invite others to get involved!).
    I would prefer to convert all to 3.x tutorials and not engage in
    "monkey patching" by annotating the deprecations. But either way i am
    willing to help as long as we are moving forward as a community.

    If you are a tutorial owner and would like to be a part of Python's
    future and not simply a landscaper of some rotting historical landmark
    of "days gone by, then contact me either on list or off so we can
    discuss the evolution of your tutorial, and the evolution of your
    students minds.

    Together we shall be a part of the solution and not a part of the
    problem.

    Thank You.
    rantingrick, Feb 13, 2011
    #2
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  3. Hahaha. You've got a new one every week, don't you. What happened to the
    demand to evolve idol into the future or whatever the BS you were
    parroting was? So we're on TKInter being fixed/replaced, (which you
    haven't worked with the steps people gave you), Idol being forked and
    redone, (again which you haven't done), and now you want to drag people
    "kicking and screaming" into tutorial updates. Well, at least you
    provide for some amusement, anyway. What's the bet RR will be demanding
    GV step up? And I'm sure he's got the silent majority, yet again.
    Littlefield, Tyler, Feb 13, 2011
    #3
  4. At 01:18 PM 2/13/2011, rantingrick wrote:
    >If any tutorial owners refuse to cooperate we need to remove their
    >tutorials (and/or links to their tutorials) from the official Python
    >website forever.


    How many tutorials have you written?


    In a city I used to live in, a long while ago, ...

    You would stop at a red light at a downtown corner and some unkempt
    fellow would lurch out of nowhere, stagger onto your hood, smear his
    dirty rag over a part of your windshield once or twice, rock back on
    his heels unsteadily, and thrust out his hand towards the car window.

    You could react in different ways.

    If you disdained to acknowledge his specific service to your general
    good he would start yelling at the top of his lungs at what an
    ingrate you were, that you should *appreciate* that he had /cleaned/
    your windshield (though more smeared now than before), that you were
    too stupid to know you were now in a better situation than before he
    had arrived, and beckoning to his fellow corner bums (who quite
    ignored the blowhard's umpteenth snit that day) and any passersby
    (who scurried away fast as they could) that all should upbraid you
    for the lackwit that you were. At length, for as long as there was
    an audience.

    Others would point to the smeared windshield and start screaming he'd
    dirtied their windshield, made it worse than before, he was a bum, he
    needed to get a job, etc. etc. To which he would respond, well, just
    as above, except adding that they were obviously blind or unbalanced.

    Others would pantomime not having any money to give him for his
    service, so sorry. To which he would respond, well, as above, except
    adding that they were liars and cheats, and at least he was an honest bum.

    Some would drive off chancing against knocking the fellow down,
    worried he would then scream for the police to arrest them for hit
    and run. Others would freeze, until a half-dozen car horns on a
    green light would release them from their quandary.

    And of course some would give him money, or throw it at him, and thus
    rewarding his dirty deeds. And his fellow bums shuffled off to some
    other street corner with a stop light and tried the same scam themselves.

    This went on for over a year. You see, there were the people who
    said that the bums were really trying to help people, improve the
    general good. And who would say that the bums didn't have the
    resources to keep their rags clean, so the dirtied windshields
    couldn't be helped. And what's wrong with trying to do good things?

    But with more traffic stoppages at more and more downtown corners,
    this bit of tramp theatre became less droll by the day. And then the
    business people noticed customers were avoiding the downtown. And
    then the ragged crew spread out from downtown. And then a couple of
    high society pooh-poohing do-gooders had the exact same joyful
    encounter, and poo-pooed badly.

    I'd like to say the solution was simple, and that the city passed
    some regulations, and the police were given a directive to stop
    overlooking all this, and the practice stopped. Well, it was, and
    did, and were, and it did.

    But then the desperate, in the afternoon or evening when the lack of
    recent drink was most pressing, would lurch out from a corner and
    throw themselves on a slowed and turning car, bounce (less than
    balletically) off, wailing and moaning at how'd they'd been most
    severely injured by the driver's gross and unconscionable negligence
    and blindness, their licenses should be taken away, jailed, call an
    ambulance, etc.

    Not so strangely, this worked a treat, especially if the driver
    hadn't seen it coming. (Though sometimes the accident took a lot of
    work on the bum's end - I saw one get "run over" by a car, half a
    block from where the bum ran out onto the street, on the other side
    of the street, with the car now reversing - it didn't help if you
    could see it coming) And better, you didn't even have to have a rag.

    You only had two options, pay up or call his bluff and call the
    police. People paid, and found themselves having 'hit' perhaps the
    very same bum a couple weeks later. Call the police and the bum
    would be gone before they got there, having screamed and muttered
    imaginative 'compliments' in your direction all the while shambling off.

    I think the city ended up having to strengthen the regulations, and
    simply started locking up all the bums. I don't really remember
    though, because I stopped going downtown and eventually left the city entirely.



    Rick, you're using the same rag now for weeks. It's dirty. Quit
    being the rag man. It won't get you the drink you want. It will
    only make you "rag man rick".
    Thomas L. Shinnick, Feb 13, 2011
    #4
  5. rantingrick

    rantingrick Guest

    On Feb 13, 3:03 pm, "Thomas L. Shinnick" <> wrote:
    >
    > In a city I used to live in, a long while ago, ...
    >
    > You would stop at a red light at a downtown corner and some unkempt
    > fellow would lurch out of nowhere, stagger onto your hood, smear his
    > dirty rag over a part of your windshield once or twice, rock back on
    > his heels unsteadily, and thrust out his hand towards the car window.


    Sadly this the case in many cities world wide. And what is the cause
    of this infestation? Bloated and overbearing government bureaucracies
    killing the soul of it's citizens! When you over tax citizens... they
    leave. When create asinine laws that make running a buisness almost
    impossible... they leave too. Likewise when you create housing
    projects... who stays? Likewise when you create a welfare mentality...
    who stays?

    However soon you find yourself in a giant conundrum... When you push
    out the tax payers and you propagate selfishness within your populace,
    who then will you steal the money from to maintain your house of
    cards? How then will you divert their attention from the wee little
    man behind the curtain pulling levers making lots of smoke and noise
    but not much else? This is how civilizations fall on a grand scale.

    Look at every major city around the world and you'll see why we find
    ourselves in the global recession. SELFISHNESS, CORRUPTION, and GREED.
    Those are the only types of folks left in the cities; the selfish, the
    corrupt, and the greedy. The honest folks got the hell out before it
    collapsed into chaos. Coming soon to a big city near you...
    devolution! (psst: this may include the Python community too!)

    > How many tutorials have you written?


    Your attempts to connect me to the bums are laughable. I am the only
    person publicly calling for change, for self responsibility, and for a
    *real* community with a united vision of the future. Anybody that
    argues for keeping old incompatible 2.x tutorials is just a historical
    landscaper plain and simple. That's fine. If you wish to live in the
    past be my quest. However *we* are going to move forward with or
    without you.
    rantingrick, Feb 13, 2011
    #5
  6. >However *we* are going to move forward with or
    >without you.

    In other words: We in RR's book means RR and this silent majority that
    has pitched in so much work to back his last call to move forward, that
    we're now boggling in awe at a new Idol. And moving forward means
    posting lots of trash, (he calls this speaking up), reverting to insults
    when people don't back him in his crusade to move us forward, (he calls
    this vision and pursuasion), then hoping that it all holds up. When a
    solution is posed, he goes quiet, (this again I guess is called
    evolution), until he can find something else to complain about, and the
    last complaints are left by the wayside.
    Littlefield, Tyler, Feb 13, 2011
    #6
  7. On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 15:03:18 -0600, Thomas L. Shinnick wrote:

    > At 01:18 PM 2/13/2011, rantingrick wrote:
    >>If any tutorial owners refuse to cooperate we need to remove their
    >>tutorials (and/or links to their tutorials) from the official Python
    >>website forever.

    >
    > How many tutorials have you written?
    >
    > In a city I used to live in, a long while ago, ...

    [...]

    As entertaining as the story was, please don't give the troll the
    attention he craves. If we ignore him, and refuse to respond to his
    ravings, maybe he'll move on.

    The official stance of the Python development team is that 2.7 and 3.x
    will co-exist for a long, long time. Removing 2.x tutorials would be
    cutting off our nose to spite our face.


    --
    Steven
    Steven D'Aprano, Feb 13, 2011
    #7
  8. rantingrick

    rantingrick Guest

    On Feb 13, 4:30 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
    > wrote:

    > The official stance of the Python development team is that 2.7 and 3.x
    > will co-exist for a long, long time. Removing 2.x tutorials would be
    > cutting off our nose to spite our face.


    That is BS Steven and you know it! Of course we are going to support
    2.x for a long, long, time. Heck we even have downloads available for
    Python1.x. I am talking about TUTORIALS steven, TUTORIALS!

    However we should NOT be proliferating confusion by allowing 2.x and
    3.x TUTORIALS to exists in the wild. I have tons of code that is
    written in 2.x and non compatible for 3.x. However if i don't start
    writing 3.x code soon, in the future i will have tons, and tons, and
    tons, of code that is not 3.x compatible. Stop spreading lies Steven.
    We are going to support 2.x because people have code bases that would
    be too painful to change over now. HOWEVER! We must encourage any NEW
    code to be written in 3.x compatible style.

    PS: The only troll here is YOU!
    PPS: I am talking about TUTORIALS!
    rantingrick, Feb 13, 2011
    #8
  9. On 13Feb2011 14:47, rantingrick <> wrote:
    | On Feb 13, 4:30 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve
    | > wrote:
    | > The official stance of the Python development team is that 2.7 and 3.x
    | > will co-exist for a long, long time. Removing 2.x tutorials would be
    | > cutting off our nose to spite our face.
    |
    | That is BS Steven and you know it! Of course we are going to support
    | 2.x for a long, long, time. Heck we even have downloads available for
    | Python1.x. I am talking about TUTORIALS steven, TUTORIALS!

    Steven is also talking about tutorials. Perhaps my comprehension skiils
    are weak; I am basing my assrtion on his use of the word "tutorials" in
    the sentence:

    Removing 2.x tutorials would be cutting off our nose to spite our
    face.

    I admit my reading here may be superficial and that you may be seeing a
    deeper intent.

    [...]
    | [...] Stop spreading lies Steven. [...]
    | PS: The only troll here is YOU! [...]

    I confess to finding these two sentences in your message contradictory.
    Again, my poor comprehension skills must be to blame.

    Cheers,
    --
    Cameron Simpson <> DoD#743
    http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/

    That's just the sort of bloody stupid name they would choose.
    - Reginald Mitchell, designer of the Spitfire
    Cameron Simpson, Feb 14, 2011
    #9
  10. rantingrick

    flebber Guest

    On Feb 14, 11:35 am, Cameron Simpson <> wrote:
    > On 13Feb2011 14:47, rantingrick <> wrote:
    > | On Feb 13, 4:30 pm, Steven D'Aprano <steve| > wrote:
    >
    > | > The official stance of the Python development team is that 2.7 and 3.x
    > | > will co-exist for a long, long time. Removing 2.x tutorials would be
    > | > cutting off our nose to spite our face.
    > |
    > | That is BS Steven and you know it! Of course we are going to support
    > | 2.x for a long, long, time. Heck we even have downloads available for
    > | Python1.x. I am talking about TUTORIALS steven, TUTORIALS!
    >
    > Steven is also talking about tutorials. Perhaps my comprehension skiils
    > are weak; I am basing my assrtion on his use of the word "tutorials" in
    > the sentence:
    >
    >   Removing 2.x tutorials would be cutting off our nose to spite our
    >   face.
    >
    > I admit my reading here may be superficial and that you may be seeing a
    > deeper intent.
    >
    > [...]
    > | [...] Stop spreading lies Steven. [...]
    > | PS: The only troll here is YOU! [...]
    >
    > I confess to finding these two sentences in your message contradictory.
    > Again, my poor comprehension skills must be to blame.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > --
    > Cameron Simpson <> DoD#743http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/
    >
    > That's just the sort of bloody stupid name they would choose.
    >         - Reginald Mitchell, designer of the Spitfire


    Python 3 Tutorial

    http://docs.python.org/py3k/

    Python 3 Tutorial

    http://diveintopython3.org/

    Python 3 Video Tutorials

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=python 3 tutorial&aq=f

    Python 3 Tutorial

    http://www.swaroopch.com/notes/Python_en:Table_of_Contents

    Python 3 Book

    http://www.amazon.com/Programming-P...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297682115&sr=1-1

    If people want to learn there are already plenty of resources.
    flebber, Feb 14, 2011
    #10
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