Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washed out?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Mike Barnard, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    Heh, that sounds like a soap powder advert!

    When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    much heavier and more readable.

    Imagine if you will that the text in IE was in bold but the FF text
    was not, except that the IE text is *not* bold so the FF text must be
    in ultra skinny mode.

    I've looked through the options and I can't see any that affect the
    text other than font scaling,l and thats normal.

    Is this just how FF shows things or have I tweaked something in the
    past?

    Mike.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. Mike Barnard wrote:

    > When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    > much heavier and more readable.


    Looks pretty much the same to me.

    Remember, it all depends on the visitor's (or your) chosen default font
    size .. per each browser.

    The only thing I notice is the paragr .. whoops, heading? .. of "Things
    to add: Email newsletter, ..."

    #content h4
    ....
    font-weight: normal;

    Looks like Firefox is respecting that, and IE is not. But "normal" is
    the default, so you don't need to use it.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 27, 2008
    #2
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  3. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:01:09 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    >Mike Barnard wrote:
    >
    >> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >> much heavier and more readable.

    >
    >Looks pretty much the same to me.


    I've tried screencapping it without sucess. I'll try again later but
    here they're vastly different. BUT the default font size of 16 is the
    same, the font is the same but FF just looks.... thin.

    >Remember, it all depends on the visitor's (or your) chosen default font
    >size .. per each browser.
    >
    >The only thing I notice is the paragr .. whoops, heading? .. of "Things
    >to add: Email newsletter, ..."
    >
    >#content h4
    >...
    >font-weight: normal;


    Legacy. It'll be cleared out in the end. If I remember! As the site
    can now be seen, I guess it would be good to remove that bit! :)

    >Looks like Firefox is respecting that, and IE is not. But "normal" is
    >the default, so you don't need to use it.


    Thanks.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 27, 2008
    #3
  4. Mike Barnard

    Bergamot Guest

    Re: Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washedout?

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >
    > #content h4
    > ...
    > font-weight: normal;
    >
    > Looks like Firefox is respecting that, and IE is not. But "normal" is
    > the default, so you don't need to use it.


    I believe font-weight:bold is the default for all heading levels.

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Mar 27, 2008
    #4
  5. Mike Barnard

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 27 Mar 2008, Mike Barnard <> wrote:

    > Heh, that sounds like a soap powder advert!
    >
    > When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    > much heavier and more readable.
    >
    > Imagine if you will that the text in IE was in bold but the FF text
    > was not, except that the IE text is *not* bold so the FF text must be
    > in ultra skinny mode.
    >
    > I've looked through the options and I can't see any that affect the
    > text other than font scaling,l and thats normal.
    >
    > Is this just how FF shows things or have I tweaked something in the
    > past?


    I believe it's a color issue.

    --
    Neredbojias
    http://www.neredbojias.com/
    Great sights and sounds
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 28, 2008
    #5
  6. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    <> wrote:

    >When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >much heavier and more readable.


    Finally got a comparison screencap.

    http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html

    Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 29, 2008
    #6
  7. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washedout?

    Mike Barnard wrote:
    > On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >> much heavier and more readable.

    >
    > Finally got a comparison screencap.
    >
    > http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html
    >
    > Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    > FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    > but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
    >


    Perhaps ...

    Tools - Options - Content - Fonts & Colors - Advanced. Check to see if
    you have unchecked "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of my
    selections above".

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    There's only two things that money can't buy and that's true love and
    home grown tomatoes. - Guy Clark
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 29, 2008
    #7
  8. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:31:44 -0400, Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    >Mike Barnard wrote:
    >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >>> much heavier and more readable.

    >>
    >> Finally got a comparison screencap.
    >>
    >> http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html
    >>
    >> Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    >> FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    >> but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
    >>

    >
    >Perhaps ...
    >
    >Tools - Options - Content - Fonts & Colors - Advanced. Check to see if
    >you have unchecked "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of my
    >selections above".


    No, that is checked. The fonts are identical looking at the pixel
    structure of the letters, it's just antialiasing I'm sure. Oh well,
    no setting that I can see. In face I have just gone through the
    settings in IE and can see nothing there. Just another browser
    difference I suppose.
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 29, 2008
    #8
  9. Mike Barnard

    albert hall Guest

    Mike Barnard wrote:
    > On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >> much heavier and more readable.

    >
    > Finally got a comparison screencap.
    >
    > http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html
    >
    > Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    > FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    > but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
    >



    I got the same effect when I recently downloaded IE7. It does'nt happen
    in IE6. Apparently it's because IE7 uses Clear Type font smoothing by
    default:

    http://ie7css.info/features/ie7-upgrades-to-font-smoothing.html

    You can activate font smoothing in FF but have to apply it to all of
    Windows:

    http://chris.calabrese.org/?p=27
     
    albert hall, Mar 29, 2008
    #9
  10. Mike Barnard

    Mike Barnard Guest

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:33:58 +0000, albert hall
    <> wrote:

    >Mike Barnard wrote:
    >> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >>> much heavier and more readable.

    >>
    >> Finally got a comparison screencap.
    >>
    >> http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html
    >>
    >> Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    >> FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    >> but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
    >>

    >
    >
    >I got the same effect when I recently downloaded IE7. It does'nt happen
    >in IE6. Apparently it's because IE7 uses Clear Type font smoothing by
    >default:
    >
    >http://ie7css.info/features/ie7-upgrades-to-font-smoothing.html
    >
    >You can activate font smoothing in FF but have to apply it to all of
    >Windows:
    >
    >http://chris.calabrese.org/?p=27


    BINGO! You got it, thanks. I've just tet my PC to Clear Type and FF
    instantly became clearer, darker and...nicer. I'll just have to
    suggest that all other users try this option.

    Oh, yes, I have a nice Asus 22" widescreen, very digital indeed. I'll
    go to the library or somewhere with older analogue monitors and see
    what it looks like there.

    I'm glad it wasn't my eyesight!
     
    Mike Barnard, Mar 29, 2008
    #10
  11. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washedout?

    Mike Barnard wrote:
    > On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 17:33:58 +0000, albert hall
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Mike Barnard wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:36:12 +0000, Mike Barnard
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin. Yet in IE it's
    >>>> much heavier and more readable.
    >>> Finally got a comparison screencap.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.thermachek.com/test/index.html
    >>>
    >>> Looking closer it looks as though the IE text is antialiased, but the
    >>> FF one isn't. Is there an option in FF to do this? I can't see one,
    >>> but we all know I sometimes miss the obvious!
    >>>

    >>
    >> I got the same effect when I recently downloaded IE7. It does'nt happen
    >> in IE6. Apparently it's because IE7 uses Clear Type font smoothing by
    >> default:
    >>
    >> http://ie7css.info/features/ie7-upgrades-to-font-smoothing.html
    >>
    >> You can activate font smoothing in FF but have to apply it to all of
    >> Windows:
    >>
    >> http://chris.calabrese.org/?p=27

    >
    > BINGO! You got it, thanks. I've just tet my PC to Clear Type and FF
    > instantly became clearer, darker and...nicer. I'll just have to
    > suggest that all other users try this option.
    >
    > Oh, yes, I have a nice Asus 22" widescreen, very digital indeed. I'll
    > go to the library or somewhere with older analogue monitors and see
    > what it looks like there.
    >
    > I'm glad it wasn't my eyesight!
    >
    >
    >


    FYI

    http://www.microsoft.com/typography/cleartype/tuner/Step1.aspx

    You can download a handy utility to adjust Clear Type on your
    system/display.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    When in doubt assume that, once again, you've outsmarted yourself.
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 30, 2008
    #11
  12. Mike Barnard

    rf Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >> >>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.

    >
    > Website text and text in general often looks shithouse on Windows
    > machines. Yes, I know, it is said that things can be done about it. How
    > come, on Macs you don't have to say things like this because text almost
    > always looks gorgeous?
    >
    > I once observed a queue of text waiting to go on stage onto what they
    > thought was a Windows one and they looked depressed, their natural em
    > heights sagging sadly. Suddenly, there was an announcement: "Girls, the
    > stage has been switched to Mac!"
    >
    > A delighted surprised murmur rippled through the queue, the letters and
    > symbols all standing more upright, their em heights restored, their
    > skins glowing more, the thin bits of them losing that splotchy emaciated
    > look, their fingers raised for a lick and a stroke of their eyebrows,
    > hands confidently brushing back their hair. There was going to be a
    > class act after all...


    Do you carry on with these bizarre outbursts in real life?
     
    rf, Mar 30, 2008
    #12
  13. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > >>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.


    Website text and text in general often looks shithouse on Windows
    machines. Yes, I know, it is said that things can be done about it. How
    come, on Macs you don't have to say things like this because text almost
    always looks gorgeous?

    I once observed a queue of text waiting to go on stage onto what they
    thought was a Windows one and they looked depressed, their natural em
    heights sagging sadly. Suddenly, there was an announcement: "Girls, the
    stage has been switched to Mac!"

    A delighted surprised murmur rippled through the queue, the letters and
    symbols all standing more upright, their em heights restored, their
    skins glowing more, the thin bits of them losing that splotchy emaciated
    look, their fingers raised for a lick and a stroke of their eyebrows,
    hands confidently brushing back their hair. There was going to be a
    class act after all...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 31, 2008
    #13
  14. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washedout?

    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.

    >
    > Website text and text in general often looks shithouse on Windows
    > machines.


    Beg to differ. I have experience with both, historically and currently,
    and to claim that is ... hmmm ... um ... deceitful? Silly? Ignorant
    (which I think you are surely not). But it is, at best, "not well
    informed."

    If Apple is so all-knowing and wonderful, how come Safari for Windows
    looks so ... well, poopy? And, by the way, I have been around since
    before the Mac, way back to 1984 and IBM mid-range systems and green
    screens. I am amused by the Mac/Apple evangelists. Hey, if that's your
    thing? Enjoy! No problem. Just stop trying to tell the world that
    your religion is THE religion that we all should bow down to. I give
    you no more credence than any other zealot. And it detracts from my
    view of you (editorially "you" as well as personally "you") as a
    rational person. I find ALL zealots of any ilk suspect.

    > Yes, I know, it is said that things can be done about it. How
    > come, on Macs you don't have to say things like this because text almost
    > always looks gorgeous?


    I owned a Mac many moons ago. I hated it. Nothing looked "gorgeous" on
    it and it did everything in a different way. Oh, sure, I could have
    drunk the Kool Aid and bought into the fervor. But why? I just wanted
    a tool (a hammer) to beat to death the issues (business problems) I had
    at the time. I didn't want to become an evangelist or a disciple or
    some drone as depicted in that cute "1984" Mac ad.

    > I once observed a queue of text waiting to go on stage onto what they
    > thought was a Windows one and they looked depressed, their natural em
    > heights sagging sadly. Suddenly, there was an announcement: "Girls, the
    > stage has been switched to Mac!"
    >
    > A delighted surprised murmur rippled through the queue, the letters and
    > symbols all standing more upright, their em heights restored, their
    > skins glowing more, the thin bits of them losing that splotchy emaciated
    > look, their fingers raised for a lick and a stroke of their eyebrows,
    > hands confidently brushing back their hair. There was going to be a
    > class act after all...
    >


    Cute is, well, "cute."

    Ads are, well, ads. I've written enough of them in my life to be able
    to discern the difference between bull shit and functional features.

    Hey, you like Apple? Good for you. Enjoy your association with the
    other miniscule percent of the market share vs. Intel and Microsoft.
    Wanna spend your hours, and days, and energy worrying about
    conspiracies? Go right ahead. I just want a tool that works.

    Just stop mimicking Apple propaganda in your posts about technology.

    Well, ok, on the other hand, whatever. I'm not mad or anything, nor
    angry. And I don't even much care about it. We all do what we want,
    and that's fine.

    I just hate proselytizing in any guise. It's not rational. It is,
    largely, untruthful at best. And, worst, it is tedious to the max. If
    I want to be bored I have me. No outside agencies needed, thank you
    very much. Good grief, just stop all this nonsense. You want a
    Craftsman hammer? Buy one and be happy. You prefer a Black and Decker
    hammer? Good on ya, mate! Go for it!

    Fonts, schmonts. My screens look every bit as good as any modern Mac
    I've seen. What a load of ... excuse me ... I think we've wasted enough
    time on this diversion.

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    Harmony is pure love, for love is a concerto. - Lope de Vega
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 31, 2008
    #14
  15. Mike Barnard

    Ed Mullen Guest

    Re: Calling all firefox users. Do your fonts look faint and washedout?

    rf wrote:
    > "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> In article <>,
    >> Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>>>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.

    >> Website text and text in general often looks shithouse on Windows
    >> machines. Yes, I know, it is said that things can be done about it. How
    >> come, on Macs you don't have to say things like this because text almost
    >> always looks gorgeous?
    >>
    >> I once observed a queue of text waiting to go on stage onto what they
    >> thought was a Windows one and they looked depressed, their natural em
    >> heights sagging sadly. Suddenly, there was an announcement: "Girls, the
    >> stage has been switched to Mac!"
    >>
    >> A delighted surprised murmur rippled through the queue, the letters and
    >> symbols all standing more upright, their em heights restored, their
    >> skins glowing more, the thin bits of them losing that splotchy emaciated
    >> look, their fingers raised for a lick and a stroke of their eyebrows,
    >> hands confidently brushing back their hair. There was going to be a
    >> class act after all...

    >
    > Do you carry on with these bizarre outbursts in real life?
    >
    >


    Gee, I wish I had read this before I posted my last outburst. :-D

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    Can you be a closet claustrophobic?
     
    Ed Mullen, Mar 31, 2008
    #15
  16. Ed Mullen <> writes:

    > Fonts, schmonts.


    That’s a funny statement. If fonts just looked good (and more of them
    could be available on demand), lots of corporate web pages wouldn’t be
    full of dynamic Flash and image generation (or static images of text),
    easier to develop, and more accessible.

    I would even say that web design in general would be entirely different
    from what it is today in that case, and for the better.

    > My screens look every bit as good as any modern Mac
    > I've seen.


    You haven’t looked very close then. Medium up to very large type is
    rendered so much better on OS X that you don’t need to bring your
    glasses to notice. OTOH, ClearType – if enabled – does a much better job
    on small sizes, which can become a blurry mess on a Mac (and
    anti-aliasing has to be disabled at your personal break point
    altogether).

    Oh, and I hate Apple the company even more than Microsoft, if that
    helps :)

    --
    ||| hexadecimal EBB
    o-o decimal 3771
    --oOo--( )--oOo-- octal 7273
    205 goodbye binary 111010111011
     
    Eric B. Bednarz, Mar 31, 2008
    #16
  17. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ed Mullen <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>>>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.

    > >
    > > Website text and text in general often looks shithouse on Windows
    > > machines.

    >
    > Beg to differ. I have experience with both, historically and currently,
    > and to claim that is ... hmmm ... um ... deceitful? Silly? Ignorant
    > (which I think you are surely not). But it is, at best, "not well
    > informed."


    I now want to unreservedly withdraw all my words. My experience with
    Windows is quite limited and it is just my impression on the particular
    machines that I have seen, especially (and probably unfairly) on my own
    Windows 2000 box.

    I will never say anything that so upsets you again Ed and I am sending
    you cakes and some home brew and a few of my own genetically engineered
    chickens. No need to send $10 for them.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 31, 2008
    #17
  18. Mike Barnard

    dorayme Guest

    In article <0XUHj.4201$>,
    "rf" <> wrote:

    > "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In article <>,
    > > Ed Mullen <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> >>>> When I look at my site in FF the text appears ... thin.

    > >

    ....
    > > I once observed a queue of text waiting to go on stage onto what they
    > > thought was a Windows one and they looked depressed, their natural em
    > > heights sagging sadly. Suddenly, there was an announcement: "Girls, the
    > > stage has been switched to Mac!"
    > >
    > > A delighted surprised murmur rippled through the queue, the letters and
    > > symbols all standing more upright, their em heights restored, their
    > > skins glowing more, the thin bits of them losing that splotchy emaciated
    > > look, their fingers raised for a lick and a stroke of their eyebrows,
    > > hands confidently brushing back their hair. There was going to be a
    > > class act after all...

    >
    > Do you carry on with these bizarre outbursts in real life?


    In real life I was told that unless I took it seriously I would be shot.
    I went to see someone about it and they recommended alt.html. Bizarrity
    is slowly being beaten out of me but it takes time and I appreciate
    everyone's patience, not least yours Richard.

    (Actually, I have been discussing this business of Win font settings
    since with a colleague who said there are provisions that can be made in
    modern XP machines to make the text nicer to my eye. I am thinking of
    getting an XP laptop and so this is good news.)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 31, 2008
    #18
  19. Mike Barnard

    rf Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > (Actually, I have been discussing this business of Win font settings
    > since with a colleague who said there are provisions that can be made in
    > modern XP machines to make the text nicer to my eye. I am thinking of
    > getting an XP laptop and so this is good news.)


    An XP laptop?

    Why not just dual boot XP on the one you have?

    --
    Richard.
     
    rf, Mar 31, 2008
    #19
  20. Mike Barnard

    rf Guest

    "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <UAYHj.4303$>,
    > "rf" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "dorayme" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >> > (Actually, I have been discussing this business of Win font settings
    >> > since with a colleague who said there are provisions that can be made
    >> > in
    >> > modern XP machines to make the text nicer to my eye. I am thinking of
    >> > getting an XP laptop and so this is good news.)

    >>
    >> An XP laptop?
    >>
    >> Why not just dual boot XP on the one you have?

    >
    > Don't know how to do this or what it involves. Thought to buy my way out
    > of it and notch up a tax deduction to stop the accountant saying I am so
    > mean and don't have enough deductions for her to play with. And take my
    > time transferring all the software to the laptop.
    >
    > Where would you suggest I go to get algorithmic instructions for your
    > suggestions. I have two hard disks in my winbox, one of which has 2000
    > on it. The other is not doing much, it was spare so I threw it in one
    > day for storage.


    If you choose custom install then you can specify which partition/drive the
    install is to use. If this is not the existing boot partition/drive then
    dual boot will be installed for you.

    However, it's a long time since I have done this, probably 2000 with 98, in
    2000.

    OTOH why not simply upgrade. It's the same OS, simply an upgrade. IIRC 2000
    identifies itself as Windows NT version 5.0. XP is Windows version 5.1.

    Don't, however, go anywhere near Vista.

    --
    Richard.
     
    rf, Mar 31, 2008
    #20
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