can ASP table display 200 columns, 500,000 rows?

Discussion in 'ASP General' started by Rich, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from a
    Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking up
    the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes can
    at least display all the columns. Suggestions appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
    Rich, Dec 4, 2003
    #1
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  2. Rich

    Ray at Guest

    I'd say it's just a matter of personal preference after considering the
    drawbacks of having that large or a response and putting that extra strain
    on the server. When you want a drink of water, do you fill a glass and take
    that with you back to your sofa, or do you pick up the entire river and try
    to lug that back to your sofa?

    Ray at work

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > 500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from a
    > Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    > Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    > corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    > columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    > data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    > scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    > able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking up
    > the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    > clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    > it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    > should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    > dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    > couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    > migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes can
    > at least display all the columns. Suggestions appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Rich
     
    Ray at, Dec 4, 2003
    #2
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  3. Rich

    Bob Barrows Guest

    Rich wrote:
    > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > 500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from a
    > Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    > Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    > corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    > columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    > data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    > scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    > able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking up
    > the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    > clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    > it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    > should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    > dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    > couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    > migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes can
    > at least display all the columns. Suggestions appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Rich


    I like the "section" idea. The user would have to click something anyways to
    do the scroll. What difference if they click a scrollbar or a button?

    You might be able to sell it by giving them a dropdown of column names -
    when they select one, it will display the appropriate "section"

    I would be very leary of trying to stream 500,000 rows to a the client in
    one fell swoop.It's kind of ridiculous, don't you think? How is having that
    many rows on the screen at one time of any use to anyone?

    Bob Barrows

    --
    Microsoft MVP -- ASP/ASP.NET
    Please reply to the newsgroup. The email account listed in my From
    header is my spam trap, so I don't check it very often. You will get a
    quicker response by posting to the newsgroup.
     
    Bob Barrows, Dec 4, 2003
    #3
  4. > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > 500,000 rows of data.


    Why would you subject a user to this cruel torture?

    --
    Aaron Bertrand
    SQL Server MVP
    http://www.aspfaq.com/
     
    Aaron Bertrand - MVP, Dec 4, 2003
    #4
  5. Rich

    Phill. W Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > 500,000 rows of data.


    You Betcha!!

    Just consider the HTML needed to display it:

    "<table>", plus
    500,000 lots of "<tr>" with
    200 lots of "<td>" and "</td>" within that, plus
    500,000 lots of "</tr>", plus the final
    "</table>"

    that's:

    7 + 500,000 * ( 4 + 200 * ( 4 + 5 ) + 5 ) + 8 bytes
    = 904,500,015 bytes
    ~= 0.83 Gigabytes!!

    and that's without *any* actual data in it!!

    Transmission time: (not counting /building/ it on the server)

    100Mbit ethernet 72 seconds
    56Kbit modem: just shy of 36 hours.

    Not quite in Our Friends in Redmond's league - just under seven
    *days* for the /single-file/ download of Visual Studio 2003 - but
    getting there... ;-)

    Regards,
    Phill W.

    and yes; I'm /very/ familiar with dial-up download times... :-(
     
    Phill. W, Dec 4, 2003
    #5
  6. Rich

    Mark Schupp Guest

    Is the data static or does it differ from one user to the next (or from one
    query to the next)?
    Is this on an intranet where the clients could have direct access to the
    SQLServer database?
    Which browsers must be supported? Can you limit support to a particular
    browser?

    --
    Mark Schupp
    Head of Development
    Integrity eLearning
    www.ielearning.com


    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > 500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from a
    > Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    > Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    > corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    > columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    > data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    > scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    > able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking up
    > the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    > clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    > it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    > should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    > dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    > couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    > migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes can
    > at least display all the columns. Suggestions appreciated.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Rich
     
    Mark Schupp, Dec 4, 2003
    #6
  7. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Thank you all for your replies. I guess I will go with
    the section idea. And the suggestion for the dropdown box
    listing all the columns is real cool too. Matter of fact,
    I tried out Bob's ListDemo sample for the dropdown
    listbox. works great!

    Thanks again for all the suggestions.

    Rich

    >-----Original Message-----
    >I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    >500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from

    a
    >Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    >Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    >corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    >columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    >data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    >scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    >able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking up
    >the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    >clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    >it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    >should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    >dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    >couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    >migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes

    can
    >at least display all the columns. Suggestions

    appreciated.
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Rich
    >.
    >
     
    Rich, Dec 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Because Lotus Notes was able to do this with up to like
    400,000 recs. But now starting to fail. Thus, I started
    pushing ASP. Each record has a Datefield I could filter
    by or an alphanumeric ID. I guess we don't really need to
    display all 500,000 recs at once. Just that even though
    Notes could sort of do it (Notes 5) it doesn't really have
    built in filtering. So you get the whole thing. People
    kinda got used to that. I guess I need to push - that
    with Sql Server and ASP you can actually filter stuff and
    not have to deal with the whole potatoe at once.

    >-----Original Message-----
    >> I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns

    and
    >> 500,000 rows of data.

    >
    >Why would you subject a user to this cruel torture?
    >
    >--
    >Aaron Bertrand
    >SQL Server MVP
    >http://www.aspfaq.com/
    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Rich, Dec 4, 2003
    #8
  9. Rich

    Rich Guest

    Yes, this data is on an intranet, and yes, I could hook
    the intended audience up with ms Access to view the data
    or custom apps, but for data entry (large company, over
    130,000 employees) we have people entering data all over
    the place. Right now everyone (for this project) uses
    Lotus Notes for data entry and viewing (although I pull
    the data in to Sql Server daily from Notes for creating
    reports). You have the one Notes app which is accessible
    anywhere within the company intranet. I'm thinking why
    not migrate this straight to ASP/Sql Server, then I don't
    have to pull in any data from Notes. And with ASP only
    need the one app. Much easier to maintain than a bunch of
    custom apps distributed all over the place.

    >-----Original Message-----
    >Is the data static or does it differ from one user to the

    next (or from one
    >query to the next)?
    >Is this on an intranet where the clients could have

    direct access to the
    >SQLServer database?
    >Which browsers must be supported? Can you limit support

    to a particular
    >browser?
    >
    >--
    >Mark Schupp
    >Head of Development
    >Integrity eLearning
    >www.ielearning.com
    >
    >
    >"Rich" <> wrote in

    message
    >news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    >> I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns

    and
    >> 500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data

    from a
    >> Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now,

    but
    >> Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    >> corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number

    of
    >> columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    >> data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    >> scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    >> able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking

    up
    >> the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    >> clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    >> it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    >> should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    >> dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    >> couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    >> migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes

    can
    >> at least display all the columns. Suggestions

    appreciated.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Rich

    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Rich, Dec 4, 2003
    #9
  10. > Because Lotus Notes was able to do this with up to like
    > 400,000 recs. But now starting to fail.


    Whether you're using Lotus Notes, or ASP, or ColdFusion, or Flash, or a
    mainframe, or a stone tablet... 400,000 rows is WAY too many for any human
    to handle (never mind the actual technological limitations outlined by
    others). Imagine hitting a web page that had 400,000 rows in a table. Does
    it really sound fun? This is why when you search for things on the web, or
    on google, they present (by default) 10 items per page, not 100,000. If you
    get too many results, you can simply narrow down your search. This is the
    angle you should be approaching from, in my opinion, rather than asking,
    "how can I still force them to look at 500,000 rows at once!?!?!?"

    --
    Aaron Bertrand
    SQL Server MVP
    http://www.aspfaq.com/
     
    Aaron Bertrand - MVP, Dec 4, 2003
    #10
  11. Rich

    Rich Guest

    The biggest element/obstacle for me is the human element.
    I write code. Not much for shmoozing. My company
    (supposedly the largest hmo in US) has been around for
    quite a while and has not focused as much energy on
    computer tech. So I was one just a few techy types to
    join on. These are hard people to sell on new technology
    (heck, the stuff I'm trying to push is already 5+ years
    old - wait till I start pushing VS.net).

    Lotus Notes has been the mainstay here for quite a few
    years. They are comfortable with it and it's
    limitations. If they plan on keeping up with/or ahead of
    the competition they will eventually have to step up to
    newer technology.

    I had to do the biggest song and dance just to get them to
    use Sql Server for reporting. Before, they were using
    Access (1 gig limit) at 110% of capacity - Access kept
    dying. Now using sql Server (only 6 gigs of data) we are
    at 0.6% of capacity and reports run smooth and quick. So
    for my next trick, I need to convince them that IIS is way
    more suited for their needs than Domino (notes server)
    since all the data ends up in Microsoft based reports.
    Keep everything in its native element.


    >-----Original Message-----
    >> Because Lotus Notes was able to do this with up to like
    >> 400,000 recs. But now starting to fail.

    >
    >Whether you're using Lotus Notes, or ASP, or ColdFusion,

    or Flash, or a
    >mainframe, or a stone tablet... 400,000 rows is WAY too

    many for any human
    >to handle (never mind the actual technological

    limitations outlined by
    >others). Imagine hitting a web page that had 400,000

    rows in a table. Does
    >it really sound fun? This is why when you search for

    things on the web, or
    >on google, they present (by default) 10 items per page,

    not 100,000. If you
    >get too many results, you can simply narrow down your

    search. This is the
    >angle you should be approaching from, in my opinion,

    rather than asking,
    >"how can I still force them to look at 500,000 rows at

    once!?!?!?"
    >
    >--
    >Aaron Bertrand
    >SQL Server MVP
    >http://www.aspfaq.com/
    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Rich, Dec 4, 2003
    #11
  12. Ray,

    Wouldn't it make more sense to move the sofa to the river?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist!

    :)

    John



    >-----Original Message-----
    >I'd say it's just a matter of personal preference after

    considering the
    >drawbacks of having that large or a response and putting

    that extra strain
    >on the server. When you want a drink of water, do you

    fill a glass and take
    >that with you back to your sofa, or do you pick up the

    entire river and try
    >to lug that back to your sofa?
    >
    >Ray at work
     
    John Beschler, Dec 4, 2003
    #12
  13. Rich

    Ray at Guest

    Ha! Maybe. But then you'd have to move the TV, the receiver, the TiVo, the
    speakers, the cats, etc.

    Ray at work

    "John Beschler" <> wrote in message
    news:034401c3baa9$b531b940$...
    > Ray,
    >
    > Wouldn't it make more sense to move the sofa to the river?
    >
    > Sorry, I couldn't resist!
    >
    > :)
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >I'd say it's just a matter of personal preference after

    > considering the
    > >drawbacks of having that large or a response and putting

    > that extra strain
    > >on the server. When you want a drink of water, do you

    > fill a glass and take
    > >that with you back to your sofa, or do you pick up the

    > entire river and try
    > >to lug that back to your sofa?
    > >
    > >Ray at work

    >
     
    Ray at, Dec 4, 2003
    #13
  14. Rich

    Mark Schupp Guest

    The problem you are going to see with ASP is that when the user scrolls
    their view (horizontally or vertically) it will not scroll smoothly (as I
    assume the Lotus Notes app does). The view will jump to the next display
    area after a pause while the page is generated. If this is acceptable then
    have a look at some of the "record paging" approaches on the ASP sites
    (www.aspfaq.com, www.asp101.com etc).

    If the users expect smooth scrolling and are on the network where they could
    connect to the database with a traditional client-server application you
    might want to look into building a VB application with a grid control of
    some kind in it.

    --
    Mark Schupp
    Head of Development
    Integrity eLearning
    www.ielearning.com


    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:d10a01c3ba95$694be1e0$...
    > Yes, this data is on an intranet, and yes, I could hook
    > the intended audience up with ms Access to view the data
    > or custom apps, but for data entry (large company, over
    > 130,000 employees) we have people entering data all over
    > the place. Right now everyone (for this project) uses
    > Lotus Notes for data entry and viewing (although I pull
    > the data in to Sql Server daily from Notes for creating
    > reports). You have the one Notes app which is accessible
    > anywhere within the company intranet. I'm thinking why
    > not migrate this straight to ASP/Sql Server, then I don't
    > have to pull in any data from Notes. And with ASP only
    > need the one app. Much easier to maintain than a bunch of
    > custom apps distributed all over the place.
    >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >Is the data static or does it differ from one user to the

    > next (or from one
    > >query to the next)?
    > >Is this on an intranet where the clients could have

    > direct access to the
    > >SQLServer database?
    > >Which browsers must be supported? Can you limit support

    > to a particular
    > >browser?
    > >
    > >--
    > >Mark Schupp
    > >Head of Development
    > >Integrity eLearning
    > >www.ielearning.com
    > >
    > >
    > >"Rich" <> wrote in

    > message
    > >news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    > >> I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns

    > and
    > >> 500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data

    > from a
    > >> Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now,

    > but
    > >> Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    > >> corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number

    > of
    > >> columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    > >> data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    > >> scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    > >> able to scroll up or down. I was thinking of breaking

    > up
    > >> the table into section, but this would reqire additional
    > >> clicking to get to the next section of the table. Would
    > >> it be feasable to have a 200 column table in asp? or
    > >> should I stick with the section idea? I have to tell my
    > >> dept something. They started out with Lotus Notes but
    > >> couldn't query the data. I have been suggesting to
    > >> migrate the project entirely to Sql Server/IIS. Notes

    > can
    > >> at least display all the columns. Suggestions

    > appreciated.
    > >>
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Rich

    > >
    > >
    > >.
    > >
     
    Mark Schupp, Dec 5, 2003
    #14
  15. Rich

    Tim Slattery Guest

    "Mark Schupp" <> wrote:

    >The problem you are going to see with ASP is that when the user scrolls
    >their view (horizontally or vertically) it will not scroll smoothly (as I
    >assume the Lotus Notes app does). The view will jump to the next display
    >area after a pause while the page is generated.


    That would have NOTHING to do with ASP!!!! The ASP code runs on the
    server. Once that ends, the HTML it generates is sent to the client,
    where it's rendered on the screen. Scrolling happens on the client,
    and it's up to the client whether it scrolls smoothly or jumpily. ASP
    has finished its job by the time you see that problem.

    --
    Tim Slattery
    MS MVP(DTS)
     
    Tim Slattery, Dec 5, 2003
    #15
  16. Rich

    Jeff Cochran Guest

    On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:37:06 -0800, "Rich"
    <> wrote:

    >I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    >500,000 rows of data. But I have been pulling data from a
    >Lotus Notes database into Sql Server for a while now, but
    >Lotus Notes is starting to crack, columns getting
    >corrupted. Can't handle the volume of data and number of
    >columns. Sql Server has no problem. But displaying the
    >data is the big deal. The end users want to be able to
    >scroll acros a page to the colum of their choice, or be
    >able to scroll up or down.


    Why not use a combination of SQL views, along with some method of
    allowing the user to select the columns seen and the range of rows
    returned. What you describe is like a user looking at a phone book
    for the information they need. What you really want to give them is a
    search interface so you don't need to display the entire phone book,
    just the data in it that meets what the user is looking for.

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Cochran, Dec 5, 2003
    #16
  17. Rich

    Mark Schupp Guest

    What I was referring to was that, unless all 200 columns (500,000 rows each)
    are loaded into a single page then "scrolling" will involve returning to the
    server for more data. This introduces the "jump" in the display.

    There are probably ways to use remote-scripting and JavaScript to do this
    smoothly but (in my highly biased opinion) web-browsers and ASP were never
    intended to simulate the Notes application described by the original post (I
    could be wrong about how the Notes application displays data of course, it
    may already be "jumpy" in which case the ASP application could simulate it
    fairly well).

    --
    Mark Schupp
    Head of Development
    Integrity eLearning
    www.ielearning.com


    "Tim Slattery" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Mark Schupp" <> wrote:
    >
    > >The problem you are going to see with ASP is that when the user scrolls
    > >their view (horizontally or vertically) it will not scroll smoothly (as I
    > >assume the Lotus Notes app does). The view will jump to the next display
    > >area after a pause while the page is generated.

    >
    > That would have NOTHING to do with ASP!!!! The ASP code runs on the
    > server. Once that ends, the HTML it generates is sent to the client,
    > where it's rendered on the screen. Scrolling happens on the client,
    > and it's up to the client whether it scrolls smoothly or jumpily. ASP
    > has finished its job by the time you see that problem.
    >
    > --
    > Tim Slattery
    > MS MVP(DTS)
    >
     
    Mark Schupp, Dec 5, 2003
    #17
  18. Rich

    Roland Hall Guest

    Still more feasible than moving the river. Just move the whole house and
    have water front property. One more thing... You drink from the river?

    "Ray at <%=sLocation%>" <myfirstname at lane34 dot com> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Ha! Maybe. But then you'd have to move the TV, the receiver, the TiVo,

    the
    > speakers, the cats, etc.
    >
    > Ray at work
    >
    > "John Beschler" <> wrote in message
    > news:034401c3baa9$b531b940$...
    > > Ray,
    > >
    > > Wouldn't it make more sense to move the sofa to the river?
    > >
    > > Sorry, I couldn't resist!
    > >
    > > :)
    > >
    > > John
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > >-----Original Message-----
    > > >I'd say it's just a matter of personal preference after

    > > considering the
    > > >drawbacks of having that large or a response and putting

    > > that extra strain
    > > >on the server. When you want a drink of water, do you

    > > fill a glass and take
    > > >that with you back to your sofa, or do you pick up the

    > > entire river and try
    > > >to lug that back to your sofa?
    > > >
    > > >Ray at work

    > >

    >
    >
     
    Roland Hall, Dec 7, 2003
    #18
  19. Rich

    Roland Hall Guest

    For your next trick...give them the data unsorted and let them search
    through 500,000 records to find what they want. They might be a little more
    receptive to selecting what they want before retrieving it from the
    database.

    One of the benefits of SQL databases is that they pass records, not files.
    You appear to be wanting to pass the whole database * # of users. Perhaps
    you should inform IT that it's time to get rid of the ARCnet too to speed
    things up.

    "Rich" wrote:
    > The biggest element/obstacle for me is the human element.


    This is always the biggest obstacle, usually wearing an 'upper
    mismanagement' name tag who is resistant to change a.k.a. CFO.

    > I write code. Not much for shmoozing.


    PowerPoint goes a long way. You must have one element included in all
    presentations: This will save us $_________.

    > My company
    > (supposedly the largest hmo in US) has been around for
    > quite a while and has not focused as much energy on
    > computer tech.


    A large organization that doesn't have any trouble giving away millions to
    upper management that refuses to keep up with technology. This must be
    something new.

    > So I was one just a few techy types to
    > join on. These are hard people to sell on new technology
    > (heck, the stuff I'm trying to push is already 5+ years
    > old - wait till I start pushing VS.net).


    Upper management bonuses are based on profitability, excluding Enron, Arthur
    Andersen, WorldCom, etc. Spending money without a clear understanding that
    it will save TIME, which has a direct connection to ROI, comes off as
    expenditure, not revenue.

    > Lotus Notes has been the mainstay here for quite a few
    > years.


    Everyone bow your heads. Let us pray...

    > They are comfortable with it and it's
    > limitations.


    .... as they are with current management and their limitations.

    > If they plan on keeping up with/or ahead of
    > the competition they will eventually have to step up to
    > newer technology.


    Since they're already 5 years behind, the competition must be also.

    > I had to do the biggest song and dance just to get them to
    > use Sql Server for reporting. Before, they were using
    > Access (1 gig limit) at 110% of capacity - Access kept
    > dying. Now using sql Server (only 6 gigs of data) we are
    > at 0.6% of capacity and reports run smooth and quick.


    And the still don't know who you are or what you're doing for all that money
    they're paying you.

    > So for my next trick, I need to convince them that IIS is way
    > more suited for their needs than Domino (notes server)
    > since all the data ends up in Microsoft based reports.
    > Keep everything in its native element.


    I have found giving someone what they think they want instead of convincing
    them of what they need usually backfires.

    "I want to run 386 NetWare on all of my servers."
    "But, your servers are all 286s. You need to upgrade!"
    "I think that's a scam just to get more of my money. Make it work!"
    "OK! Oh, while I'm at it, want me to prove Einstein's theory of
    relativity?"
     
    Roland Hall, Dec 7, 2003
    #19
  20. Rich

    Roland Hall Guest

    Ok, by a show of hands... how many of you are still using dialup on the
    local LAN to get to the server?

    "Phill. W" <P.A.Ward@o-p-e-n-.-a-c-.-u-k> wrote in message
    news:bqnp6e$sc9$...
    > "Rich" <> wrote in message
    > news:cf9001c3ba84$dafae130$...
    > > I'm sure it sounds kinda nutty to display 200 columns and
    > > 500,000 rows of data.

    >
    > You Betcha!!
    >
    > Just consider the HTML needed to display it:
    >
    > "<table>", plus
    > 500,000 lots of "<tr>" with
    > 200 lots of "<td>" and "</td>" within that, plus
    > 500,000 lots of "</tr>", plus the final
    > "</table>"
    >
    > that's:
    >
    > 7 + 500,000 * ( 4 + 200 * ( 4 + 5 ) + 5 ) + 8 bytes
    > = 904,500,015 bytes
    > ~= 0.83 Gigabytes!!
    >
    > and that's without *any* actual data in it!!
    >
    > Transmission time: (not counting /building/ it on the server)
    >
    > 100Mbit ethernet 72 seconds
    > 56Kbit modem: just shy of 36 hours.
    >
    > Not quite in Our Friends in Redmond's league - just under seven
    > *days* for the /single-file/ download of Visual Studio 2003 - but
    > getting there... ;-)
    >
    > Regards,
    > Phill W.
    >
    > and yes; I'm /very/ familiar with dial-up download times... :-(
    >
    >
     
    Roland Hall, Dec 7, 2003
    #20
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