Can someone please clarify what "modern" Java is for me?

Discussion in 'Java' started by dos-man 64, May 12, 2009.

  1. dos-man 64

    dos-man 64 Guest

    Hello, I have not used Java really at all, ever. It's been a long
    time since I even looked at it. I'm just getting a refresher here.

    Is it compiled or interpreted?

    What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame?? Am I all
    right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    version?

    Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?

    What is J2EE? Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.

    What is the prefered development environment?

    I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
    dos-man 64, May 12, 2009
    #1
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  2. dos-man 64

    Mark Space Guest

    dos-man 64 wrote:

    > Is it compiled or interpreted?


    Yes.

    >
    > What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame?? Am I all



    JFrame is Swing and newer, you should prefer JFrame and other components
    that start with J to their older AWT components.


    > right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    > version?



    Definately get a modern SDK. 1.0 is WAY old. See the "development
    environment" below.

    >
    > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?



    I recommend Learning Java, by O'Reilly. Very good book, minimal
    treatment of JEE and Applets. Mostly just plain old Java programming,
    most of that is talking about the API, which is where you should start.
    The language itself is easy to pick up, with the possible exception of
    the thread model.

    >
    > What is J2EE? Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.



    Special library/framework for programming with a webserver. JEE is like
    Fast CGI for Java. Don't worry about it for now unless you're certain
    you need to know it.


    >
    > What is the prefered development environment?


    Various. Eclipse and NetBeans are free and very common. I like
    NetBeans, never tried Eclipse. There are several people here who will
    give you the reverse opinion. Both are just opinions. Use the tool
    that makes sense to you.

    http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html

    Note that NetBeans will also come with the latest SDK. Don't have to
    worry about getting the right one separately. Use the download button
    on the far right, under the column that says "all".

    >
    > I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    > appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.
    >



    Post a SSCCE (short example) and we'll take a look at it. Note that if
    you already have an AWT only app, you should probably eschew Swing for
    the time being.

    http://sscce.org/
     
    Mark Space, May 12, 2009
    #2
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  3. dos-man 64

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    dos-man 64 wrote:
    > Is it compiled or interpreted?


    JIT compiled. For the performance critical parts at least.

    > What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame??


    JFrame is Swing and Frame is AWT.

    > Am I all
    > right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    > version?


    You need a more modern version. 1.0 is from 1996.

    Get latest and greatest at http://java.sun.com/.

    > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?


    Applets are not in fashion today so a modern book will only spend
    a chapter on applets.

    > What is J2EE? Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.


    J2EE is now Java EE.

    It is "server" Java.

    > What is the prefered development environment?


    Eclipse and NetBeans are the two most popular IDE's today. And
    both are free, so try them before you decide which one is
    for you.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, May 12, 2009
    #3
  4. dos-man 64

    dos-man 64 Guest

    > > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    > > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?

    >
    > I recommend Learning Java, by O'Reilly.  Very good book, minimal
    > treatment of JEE and Applets.  Mostly just plain old Java programming,
    > most of that is talking about the API, which is where you should start.
    >   The language itself is easy to pick up, with the possible exception of
    > the thread model.
    >
    >


    Ok, cool. I will order that one. I have here Java primer plus, java
    unleashed, Java api reference, and java 2 in 21 days. Most of these
    are saturated with applets programming.

    >
    > > What is the prefered development environment?

    >
    > Various.  Eclipse and NetBeans are free and very common.  I like
    > NetBeans, never tried Eclipse.  There are several people here who will
    > give you the reverse opinion.  Both are just opinions.  Use the tool
    > that makes sense to you.
    >
    > http://www.netbeans.org/downloads/index.html
    >
    > Note that NetBeans will also come with the latest SDK.  Don't have to
    > worry about getting the right one separately.  Use the download button
    > on the far right, under the column that says "all".
    >
    >


    Cool. I will try out netbeans then.

    >
    > > I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    > > appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.

    >
    > Post a SSCCE (short example) and we'll take a look at it. Note that if
    > you already have an AWT only app, you should probably eschew Swing for
    > the time being.
    >
    > http://sscce.org/



    Well, here is my "app" right now. All it is is an empty window with
    no controls on it (although it took quite a few hours to make it.) I'm
    just trying to get the basics down, ie create a window, move it, set
    the caption, add a menu, etc.


    /*
    sample java program,
    1. creates a basic form
    2. sets the caption
    3. resizes it
    4. places some menus on it
    5. paints it to COLOR_BTNFACE
    6. traps the escape key
    7. moves it to center of the screen
    */

    import java.awt.*;
    import java.io.*;
    import java.lang.*;

    class Form extends java.awt.Frame
    {
    Panel buttonpanel;
    Form()
    {
    Color brush = new Color(212,208,200); // COLOR_BTNFACE RGB()
    setBackground(brush);
    MenuBar mbar = new MenuBar();
    setMenuBar(mbar);
    move(200,150);

    Menu mnuFile = new Menu("File");
    mbar.add(mnuFile);
    mnuFile.add(new MenuItem("Open"));

    Menu mnuEdit = new Menu("Edit");
    mbar.add(mnuEdit);
    mnuEdit.disable();

    Menu mnuHelp = new Menu("Help");
    mbar.add(mnuHelp);
    mnuHelp.add(new MenuItem("About"));
    }

    public boolean handleEvent(Event E)
    {
    if (E.id==Event.KEY_PRESS) // page 341 of java 2 book
    {
    if(E.key==27)
    System.exit(0);
    }

    if (E.id==Event.WINDOW_DESTROY)
    {
    System.exit(0);
    }

    return(false);
    }
    }

    class first
    {
    public static void main (String args[])
    {
    Form Form1 = new Form();
    Form1.setTitle("hello");
    Form1.resize(250,200);

    Form1.show();
    }
    }
     
    dos-man 64, May 12, 2009
    #4
  5. dos-man 64 wrote:
    > Is it compiled or interpreted?


    It's compiled to a bytecode which is subsequently either interpreted or
    further (JIT) compiled to machine code. So, both.

    > What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame?? Am I all
    > right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    > version?


    JFrame == Swing, which is a lightweight toolkit system.
    Frame == AWT, which is heavyweight.

    And please use Java 6. You get many more features, such as much better
    concurrent programming utilities, a sane event system, the collections
    libraries, not to mention all the new compiler features + etc.

    > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?


    Most books I know of don't dwell on Applets.

    > What is J2EE? Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.


    Enterprise Edition. You should probably stick with the Standard Edition.

    > What is the prefered development environment?


    NetBeans and Eclipse are the most common Java IDEs; there are dozens of
    others as well.

    > I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    > appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.


    You may have to go to dialog boxes to get rid of it.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, May 13, 2009
    #5
  6. dos-man 64

    dos-man 64 Guest

    On May 12, 6:02 pm, Joshua Cranmer <> wrote:
    > dos-man 64 wrote:
    > > Is it compiled or interpreted?

    >
    > It's compiled to a bytecode which is subsequently either interpreted or
    > further (JIT) compiled to machine code. So, both.



    The java.exe program is the interpreter correct? Then the program for
    machine code is JIT.exe?


    >
    > > What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame??  Am I all
    > > right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    > > version?

    >
    > JFrame == Swing, which is a lightweight toolkit system.
    > Frame == AWT, which is heavyweight.
    >
    > And please use Java 6. You get many more features, such as much better
    > concurrent programming utilities, a sane event system, the collections
    > libraries, not to mention all the new compiler features + etc.
    >



    I am going to try it out. I bought my first java book must have been
    10 years ago (java primer plus.) I hate to say it, but I'm no better
    with it now than I was then. Fortunately, there are other
    languages :D


    > > What is J2EE?  Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.

    >
    > Enterprise Edition. You should probably stick with the Standard Edition.
    >
    > > What is the prefered development environment?

    >



    I have here on CD Microsoft Visual J++ professional edition. Paid like
    $15 for it. Is this worth anything, or should I just toss it??


    > NetBeans and Eclipse are the most common Java IDEs; there are dozens of
    > others as well.
    >
    > > I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    > > appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.

    >
    > You may have to go to dialog boxes to get rid of it.
    >
    > --
    > Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    > tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth



    From what I can tell, I can only create a dialog box if I also create
    a frame. Should I hide the frame? For some reason, I like to write
    small utility apps that use the dialog style.

    dos-man
     
    dos-man 64, May 13, 2009
    #6
  7. dos-man 64

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    dos-man 64 wrote:
    > On May 12, 6:02 pm, Joshua Cranmer <> wrote:
    >> dos-man 64 wrote:
    >>> Is it compiled or interpreted?

    >> It's compiled to a bytecode which is subsequently either interpreted or
    >> further (JIT) compiled to machine code. So, both.

    >
    > The java.exe program is the interpreter correct? Then the program for
    > machine code is JIT.exe?


    No.

    java.exe runs the JVM. The JVM interprets and JIT compile as
    it considers it optimal.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, May 13, 2009
    #7
  8. dos-man 64

    Alan Morgan Guest

    In article <>,
    dos-man 64 <> wrote:
    >> > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    >> > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?

    >>
    >> I recommend Learning Java, by O'Reilly. =A0Very good book, minimal
    >> treatment of JEE and Applets. =A0Mostly just plain old Java programming,
    >> most of that is talking about the API, which is where you should start.
    >> =A0 The language itself is easy to pick up, with the possible exception o=

    >f
    >> the thread model.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Ok, cool. I will order that one. I have here Java primer plus, java
    >unleashed, Java api reference, and java 2 in 21 days. Most of these
    >are saturated with applets programming.


    A good rule of thumb is that if the book title contains the word
    "Unleashed" or is of the form "Learn <thing> in <number> <unit of time>"
    then it should be avoided.

    I happen to like Core Java (get the later edition that covers the newest
    incarnation of the language). There is some applet stuff, but not much.

    Alan
    --
    Defendit numerus
     
    Alan Morgan, May 13, 2009
    #8
  9. dos-man 64

    dos-man 64 Guest

    On May 12, 6:49 pm, (Alan Morgan) wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > dos-man 64  <> wrote:
    >
    > >> > Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    > >> > and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?

    >
    > >> I recommend Learning Java, by O'Reilly. =A0Very good book, minimal
    > >> treatment of JEE and Applets. =A0Mostly just plain old Java programming,
    > >> most of that is talking about the API, which is where you should start..
    > >> =A0 The language itself is easy to pick up, with the possible exception o=

    > >f
    > >> the thread model.

    >
    > >Ok, cool.  I will order that one.  I have here Java primer plus, java
    > >unleashed, Java api reference, and java 2 in 21 days.  Most of these
    > >are saturated with applets programming.

    >
    > A good rule of thumb is that if the book title contains the word
    > "Unleashed" or is of the form "Learn <thing> in <number> <unit of time>"
    > then it should be avoided.
    >
    > I happen to like Core Java (get the later edition that covers the newest
    > incarnation of the language).  There is some applet stuff, but not much..
    >
    > Alan
    > --
    > Defendit numerus



    I have just recently finished a graphics editor in vb. I am calling
    it Torrent. Torrent spits out vb 5 source code while you draw your
    image. You can then recreate your image in code without needing the
    actual bitmap image. I feel like this could be useful to java game
    programmers (then again, maybe not.) The only problem is I don't know
    java well enough to make torrent spit out java code.

    Well, here is a demo version of the program if you want to see what it
    is like. It isn't a particularly killer image editor or anything, but
    it is quite unconventional.

    http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_status&batch_id=dVlyUWV1ZDVlcEpMWEE9PQ
     
    dos-man 64, May 13, 2009
    #9
  10. On May 13, 9:21 am, dos-man 64 <> wrote:

    > I have here on CD Microsoft Visual J++ professional edition. Paid like
    > $15 for it.  Is this worth anything, or should I just toss it??


    Just toss it out. Neither Netbeans nor Eclipse
    costs any more than the bytes need to download them.
    And anything MS based is not truly 'Java compatible'
    (There was a bit of a thing where Sun sued MS over
    their non-compliant runtime - and won!)

    > > > I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    > > > appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.


    frame.setResizable(false)
    // or, more drastic
    frame.setUndecorated(true);

    As a general point though, I think someone who
    is learning will have better luck with Swing,
    if only for the fact that so many who used AWT
    in the past have forgotten the details, and cannot
    adequately help with AWT problems.

    (And just quickly on your hunt for books without
    applets. I regard any Java book that shows a tendency
    towards applets to be *very* suspect, and recommend
    avoiding them at any cost.)

    --
    Andrew T.
    pscode.org
     
    Andrew Thompson, May 13, 2009
    #10
  11. dos-man 64 wrote:
    > On May 12, 6:02 pm, Joshua Cranmer <> wrote:
    >> dos-man 64 wrote:
    >>> Is it compiled or interpreted?

    >> It's compiled to a bytecode which is subsequently either interpreted or
    >> further (JIT) compiled to machine code. So, both.

    >
    >
    > The java.exe program is the interpreter correct? Then the program for
    > machine code is JIT.exe?


    The java.exe is the entire VM [1]. This includes the JIT compiler and
    the optimizer in there as well as the bytecode intepreter. It also
    happens to include such useful features as garbage collectors--three of
    them, I'm told--as well as other features.

    > I am going to try it out. I bought my first java book must have been
    > 10 years ago (java primer plus.) I hate to say it, but I'm no better
    > with it now than I was then. Fortunately, there are other
    > languages :D


    There are Sun's tutorials, which are relatively good introductions.

    > I have here on CD Microsoft Visual J++ professional edition. Paid like
    > $15 for it. Is this worth anything, or should I just toss it??


    J++ is not actual Java (to my knowledge), and if it is, it's not a
    recent version of Java, so it's pretty much worthless.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, May 13, 2009
    #11
  12. dos-man 64

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > J++ is not actual Java (to my knowledge), and if it is, it's not a
    > recent version of Java, so it's pretty much worthless.


    As I understand it then:

    J++ = Java 1.1.4 - RMI - JNI + COM

    That is approx. worthless.

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, May 13, 2009
    #12
  13. On May 13, 11:55 am, Arne Vajhøj <> wrote:
    > Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > > J++ is not actual Java (to my knowledge), and if it is, it's not a
    > > recent version of Java, so it's pretty much worthless.

    >
    > As I understand it then:
    >
    > J++ = Java 1.1.4 - RMI - JNI + COM


    Was the MSVM also lacking RMI/JNI*? I had always
    believed that the MSVM was only non-compliant in
    the addition of the MS specific classes, but was
    otherwise a 'complete 1.1'. (* I have never had
    the need to use JNI or RMI, so I am not sure about
    their inclusion or absence from a JRE.)

    > That is approx. worthless.


    Agreed.

    --
    Andrew T.
    pscode.org
     
    Andrew Thompson, May 13, 2009
    #13
  14. dos-man 64

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > On May 13, 11:55 am, Arne Vajhøj <> wrote:
    >> Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    >>> J++ is not actual Java (to my knowledge), and if it is, it's not a
    >>> recent version of Java, so it's pretty much worthless.

    >> As I understand it then:
    >>
    >> J++ = Java 1.1.4 - RMI - JNI + COM

    >
    > Was the MSVM also lacking RMI/JNI*? I had always
    > believed that the MSVM was only non-compliant in
    > the addition of the MS specific classes, but was
    > otherwise a 'complete 1.1'. (* I have never had
    > the need to use JNI or RMI, so I am not sure about
    > their inclusion or absence from a JRE.)


    I am pretty sure that SUN sued because of what was
    missing not because of what was added.

    If they had only added then it would be able to pass
    a TCK test (even though I think this was before TCK).

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/legal/charles.mspx

    "We decided not to support Sun's native interface ("JNI") and not to
    include Sun's Remote Method Invocation package ("RMI"). We have been
    very clear with developers and other customers that we do not include
    these aspects of Sun's JDK 1.1."

    Arne
     
    Arne Vajhøj, May 13, 2009
    #14
  15. dos-man 64

    Lew Guest

    dos-man 64 wrote:
    >> The java.exe program is the interpreter correct?


    It is both interpreter and compiler, for bytecode, as well as virtual machine.

    It is not called java.exe on platforms other than Windows, BTW.

    >> Then the program for machine code is JIT.exe?


    Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > No.


    Start here:
    <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/index.html>

    A good backgrounder, with gobs of links to more:
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_(programming_language)>

    --
    Lew
     
    Lew, May 13, 2009
    #15
  16. On May 13, 12:16 pm, Arne Vajhøj <> wrote:

    > >> J++ = Java 1.1.4 - RMI - JNI + COM

    ...
    > I am pretty sure that SUN sued because of what was
    > missing not because of what was added.


    The MS specific classes did cause problems. They both
    introduced new security bugs, and made any code developed
    to use them, 'IE specific'. I almost bet that whatever
    IDE MS offered for Java, had the MS GUI widgets 'drag and
    dropable' on an Applet.

    Thanks for the further info. on JNI/RMI. The lack of
    core classes is a serious deficiency, and is enough
    (IMO) to justify any legal action.

    --
    Andrew T.
    pscode.org
     
    Andrew Thompson, May 13, 2009
    #16
  17. Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > dos-man 64 wrote:
    >> On May 12, 6:02 pm, Joshua Cranmer <> wrote:
    >>> dos-man 64 wrote:
    >>>> Is it compiled or interpreted?
    >>> It's compiled to a bytecode which is subsequently either interpreted or
    >>> further (JIT) compiled to machine code. So, both.

    >>
    >>
    >> The java.exe program is the interpreter correct? Then the program for
    >> machine code is JIT.exe?

    >
    > The java.exe is the entire VM [1].


    [1] Actually, java.exe is a wrapper around jvm.dll, which is where all
    the VM stuff actually is (and the other shared libraries in similar
    directories, like good old awt.dll, etc.). All of the other programs are
    pretty much the same wrappers except the main class is changed.


    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
     
    Joshua Cranmer, May 13, 2009
    #17
  18. dos-man 64

    dos-man 64 Guest

    On May 12, 9:33 pm, Andrew Thompson <> wrote:
    > On May 13, 12:16 pm, Arne Vajhøj <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > >> J++ = Java 1.1.4 - RMI - JNI + COM

    > ..
    > > I am pretty sure that SUN sued because of what was
    > > missing not because of what was added.

    >
    > The MS specific classes did cause problems.  They both
    > introduced new security bugs, and made any code developed
    > to use them, 'IE specific'.  I almost bet that whatever
    > IDE MS offered for Java, had the MS GUI widgets 'drag and
    > dropable' on an Applet.
    >



    Well, I had heard that MS had reverse engineered everything, to figure
    out how it all worked. This allowed them to create their own version.


    > Thanks for the further info. on JNI/RMI.  The lack of
    > core classes is a serious deficiency, and is enough
    > (IMO) to justify any legal action.
    >
    > --
    > Andrew T.
    > pscode.org



    The only problem is that MS has so much money (and is so used to being
    sued), that even this would not disuade them. They probably expected
    to be sued and went ahead and did it anyway. I don't dislike MS as
    much as some (actually many), but I'm not really keen on them anymore
    either. I'll leave it that. Actually, I'm due for my monthly MS rant,
    but I'll hold off on that. I'm saving it for the end of the month.
     
    dos-man 64, May 13, 2009
    #18
  19. dos-man 64

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Tue, 12 May 2009 14:45:39 -0700 (PDT), dos-man 64
    <> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who
    said :

    >Hello, I have not used Java really at all, ever. It's been a long
    >time since I even looked at it. I'm just getting a refresher here.
    >
    >Is it compiled or interpreted?


    both. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/hotspot.html
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/nativecompiler.html

    >
    >What is a JFrame and how does this differ from a Frame?? Am I all
    >right to use Java 1.0 SDK for practicing or do I need a more modern
    >version?

    JFrame is for containing Swing components, Frame for AWT components.

    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/awt.html
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/swing.html
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/frame.html
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jframe.html

    >
    >Is there a book that was made that deals with applications programming
    >and doesn't spend 90%+ time on applets?


    Almost everything you can say about Applets applies to applications.
    Perhaps you mean books about non-gui programming?
    >
    >What is J2EE? Sure is a lot of verbiage surrounding this language.


    see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/j2ee.html

    >
    >What is the prefered development environment?


    That is like asking the "the preferred car", or "the preferred porn
    queen". Try them. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ide.html
    for the possibilities.


    >I need to get rid of this maximize box in the corner of my AWT
    >appliation window, any suggestions would be appreciated.


    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/frame.html
    --
    Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
    http://mindprod.com

    "It wasn’t the Exxon Valdez captain’s driving that caused the Alaskan oil spill. It was yours."
    ~ Greenpeace advertisement New York Times 1990-02-25
     
    Roedy Green, May 13, 2009
    #19
  20. dos-man 64

    Wojtek Guest

    dos-man 64 wrote :
    > I have just recently finished a graphics editor in vb. I am calling
    > it Torrent. Torrent spits out vb 5 source code while you draw your
    > image. You can then recreate your image in code without needing the
    > actual bitmap image. I feel like this could be useful to java game
    > programmers (then again, maybe not.) The only problem is I don't know
    > java well enough to make torrent spit out java code.


    Hmmm, the name torrent is already associated with a distributed file
    transfer process.

    I think you would be better off having your program generate a data
    file which contians the commands to reproduce the image, rather than
    actual source code. Then you write a plugin which reads the data file
    and generates the image.

    That way (if it ever becomes popular) others could write plugins in
    other languages to read the data file.

    --
    Wojtek :)
     
    Wojtek, May 13, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertising

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