Can you please give me some advice?

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Byung-Hee HWANG a écrit :

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python?

Not much - both are hi-level dynamic object oriented languages with some
functional aspects - and quite a lot (their respective object models are
totally different).

Also, Python, being somewhat older, has perhaps a better implementation,
more 3rd part librairies, and a greater (in size) community - but it
also suffers from cruft accumulated thru the years and a documentation
that's getting a bit messy (not that it's badly documented, but some
features are not necessarily covered in the official tutorial...)

I am wondering what language
is really mine for work.

The one that best fit your brain, I'd say - or the one that best fit
your project.

Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

Can you please give me some advice?

Not wrt/ learning English !-)

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

(e-mail address removed) a écrit :
(snip)

I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is

puts 'Hello, World!'

whereas the Python Hello World program is

print 'Hello, World!'

suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word "print"
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but "puts" just doesn't.

Hem.... Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python
I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less
"intuitive" than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail
is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string'
(implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct
than what 'print' implies. When stdout is redirected to a socket that
send bytes to a client program - like, say, a browser -, you're
certainly not "printing" anything.

Anyway, at this level, Python and Ruby are surprisingly close to each
other.

And, as someone who has been learning Python
from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
English
as possible.

Here again, Ruby claims (or at least some rubyists do) that Ruby is as
close as possible to "natural language". With examples like:

5.times do {
something
and_something_else
}

which is arguably more "intuitive" than:

for i in range(5):
do_something()
and_something_else()

I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people

While perhaps smaller, the Ruby community is (AFAICT) known for being
very active and helpful.

and
libraries
and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
the
fact that Python has been around longer).

On this last point at least, you're probably right !-)

On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
they are saying.

Indeed. Or even better, try both languages and find out which one he
likes best. Implementation and 3rd part libs set aside, I could not say
one is better than the other, so it's mostly a matter of personal taste
and affinities.

As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
is easy

Would you say French is easy ? Because as far as I'm concerned, I find
it the easiest language ever. Could it be because I'm french ?-)

(snip)

 

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language
is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

Can you please give me some advice?

Byung-Hee

 

[morphine]

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language
is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on.

What kind of advice do you expect on a NG called comp.lang.PYTHON ?

What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

Then stop learning it

ciao

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language
is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

Can you please give me some advice?

Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages):
http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html

More here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Programming:Ruby_Creating_Ruby_programs

Hello World in Python:
http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm

A Python tutorial:
http://docs.python.org/tut/


Sorry about the English.

 

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

What kind of advice do you expect on a NG called comp.lang.PYTHON ?

^^^^^^^^
Your advice is the best.. really it hit my head very strongly..

Then stop learning it

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are bad.. I'm really pain..

sorry for noise.. but I really wanted to say about the above matters..

 

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

snip...]

Sorry about the English.

That's alright. I am always struggling against English. It is not
strange now. Thank you for your kindness.

Byung-Hee

 

[George Sakkis]

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python? I am wondering what language
is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

Can you please give me some advice?

Byung-Hee

"Dive into Python" has been translated in Chinese:
http://www.woodpecker.org.cn/diveintopython/

Hope it helps,
George

 

[cmpython]

Hello World in Ruby (and a few other languages):http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2005/12/hello_world.html

Hello World in Python:http://python.about.com/od/gettingstarted/ss/helloworld.htm

I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is

puts 'Hello, World!'

whereas the Python Hello World program is

print 'Hello, World!'

suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word "print"
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but "puts" just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python
from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
English
as possible.

I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and
libraries
and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
the
fact that Python has been around longer).

On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
they are saying.

As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and
write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely
impossible! Good luck!

 

[Byung-Hee HWANG]

I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is

puts 'Hello, World!'

whereas the Python Hello World program is

print 'Hello, World!'

suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word "print"
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but "puts" just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python
from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
English
as possible.

I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and
libraries
and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
the
fact that Python has been around longer).

On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
they are saying.

As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and
write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely
impossible! Good luck!

I read above your comments all. It will be good reason for my decision
must be Python. Anyway, your guidance has been useful and is greatly
appreciated. Okay, I will study English very hardly, as well. Thanks,
again!

Byung-Hee

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_Ar=E1oz?=]

I know nothing of Ruby, but just the fact that in Ruby the Hello World
program is

puts 'Hello, World!'

whereas the Python Hello World program is

print 'Hello, World!'

suggests to me that Python is more intuitive because the word "print"
has a meaning in English that makes sense given what you want to do,
but "puts" just doesn't. And, as someone who has been learning Python
from almost no knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad
in trying to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like
English
as possible.

I also think the mandatory indenting of Python is helpful in forcing
new programmers to be neat and see code blocks quickly. Plus I doubt
the Ruby community has such a large group of helpful people and
libraries
and such (but I could be wrong about that, just assuming it based on
the
fact that Python has been around longer).

On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able to
freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of other
languages. Byung-Hee Hwang ought to go the Ruby group and see what
they are saying.

As far as English goes, Byung-Hee, you have to admit English grammar
is easy (though spelling is not so easy). That anyone can speak and
write Chinese is impressive to me, as the language looks completely
impossible! Good luck!

Errhhh..... guys...... I think .kr means Korea.... so he would speak
Korean, not Chinese

 

[George Sakkis]

Errhhh..... guys...... I think .kr means Korea.... so he would speak
Korean, not Chinese

In this case, http://kr.diveintopython.org/html/index.htm might be
more useful ;-)

George

 

[Bjoern Schliessmann]

And, as someone who has been learning Python from almost no
knowledge of programming, I've found it is not too bad in trying
to keep as reasonably close to a natural language like English
as possible.

Sure, your next project should be learning COBOL -- it must be
*very* intuitive.

On the other hand, perhaps because Ruby is newer it has been able
to freshly start with advantages learned from the difficulties of
other languages.

What are those advantages in respect to Python?

Regards,


Björn

 

[Alex Martelli]

Hi there,

What is different between Ruby and Python?

Not all that much; Python is more mature, Ruby more fashionable.

I am wondering what language

is really mine for work. Somebody tell me Ruby is clean or Python is
really easy! Anyway I will really make decision today what I have to
study from now on. What I make the decision is more difficult than to
know why I have to learn English. Yeah I do not like to learn English
because it is just very painful..

www.python.or.kr/
http://wiki.python.org/moin/KoreanPythonBooks


Alex

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

Thorsten Kampe a écrit :

* Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200)



You missed the point.

Your opinion.

"puts" for printing something to stdout

<MHO>
It's not "printing". To me, "printing" implies a printer and a piece of
paper (or other appropriate support). It's sending bytes to some kind of
cs abstraction known as a "stream".
</MHO>

But anyway... This is certainly enough to prove that "intuitive" is a
*very* subjective qualifier.

 

[Thorsten Kampe]

* Bruno Desthuilliers (Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:17:43 +0200)

(e-mail address removed) a écrit :
(snip)

Hem.... Sorry, but it reminds me of the most clueless comments on Python
I've seen on c.l.ruby. I really don't think Python is more or less
"intuitive" than Ruby, and making a judgement on such a pointless detail
is not even worth the bandswith IMHO. FWIW, 'puts' means 'put string'
(implied : on stdout), which is certainly much more semantically correct
than what 'print' implies.

You missed the point. "puts" for printing something to stdout is
definitely a bad name for this operation. I mean "put string" (even
abbreviated) what does that mean?

On the other hand it does not mean that Python ist more intuitive than
Ruby - only the printing to stdout is more intuitive.

 

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

<MHO>
It's not "printing". To me, "printing" implies a printer and a piece of
paper (or other appropriate support). It's sending bytes to some kind of
cs abstraction known as a "stream".
</MHO>

But anyway... This is certainly enough to prove that "intuitive" is a
*very* subjective qualifier.

Aye... To those of use that started with BASIC on an ASR33, "print"
WAS "console output"... And even for those FORTRANs that included a
utility "print" statement -- as we ran those off of Hollerith cards to a
line printer.

I never even encountered the concept of "streams" for another decade
(Misosys LC on a TRS-80 Model III, about 1982); all my college and high
school experience had been on line-oriented devices/languages. And even
that archaic 2MHz Z-80 based system supported fixed-length direct access
files in the OS -- one did not commonly have to do "seek" on files, one
just asked for record "n". Heck -- the /editor/ on my college mainframe
used ISAM "keyed" files for source code editing! (the keys being the
line number in the editor, one often found a need to "renumber" the
lines to get rid of the decimal parts)



--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
(e-mail address removed) (e-mail address removed)
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: (e-mail address removed))
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/