can't make table height smaller

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Brian, Mar 15, 2006.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    I have inherited a web site and am trying to make minor changes in
    appearance without having to overhaul the whole thing. I am having a
    specific issue with a table height - no matter how small I make it, it
    doesn't shrink past a certain size. (But making it larger will in fact
    make it larger.)

    First, here's the URL:
    http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_2.htm

    for the table to the left headed "MATERIALS" I am trying make that the
    same size as the table to it's right. If I increase the height 351 the
    table grows, but if I decrease it it stays the same size.

    And while I'm at it, I'd like to get rid of the extra box to the left
    of the "Terminal Junction Modules" heading.

    If you look at the code you will probably want to tell me that it is
    dated. This I know. This site was probably desiged in 2000.

    TIA for any and all help.
    Regards,
    Brian
     
    Brian, Mar 15, 2006
    #1
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  2. Brian

    Jose Guest

    You are setting fixed pixel widths for your table and cell sizes. Don't
    do that - let the table size itself according to the contents. Use
    percents if you must. You are also using tables for layout; that will
    raise some heat here, but being an inhereted site, I understand
    reluctance to overhaul something that already works, sort of.

    Remove all fixed pixel sizes, replace a few of them with percents, and
    that should solve many of your problems.

    Jose
    --
    Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Mar 15, 2006
    #2
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  3. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Jose,

    I have much to do here and am not a web site designer. I understand
    simple programming (took BASIC in college 20 years ago). I don't have
    time to rebuild this site, I just need to add some links and clean up
    the look as best as possible. I re-did this page:
    http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_17.htm and am trying
    to make the others look better. (and on that page I was able to get the
    tables to line up, for the most part).

    Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
    tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
    need them to stay the same size relative to each other.

    Thanks for your post.
    Brian
     
    Brian, Mar 15, 2006
    #3
  4. Brian

    Jose Guest

    > I just need to add some links and clean up
    > the look as best as possible.


    I thought the issue was the tables had a minimum size you wanted to
    eliminate. Something like

    > <td height="89" width="249">


    ....sets the size. Tables will (on some browsers) expand if necessary,
    but they won't contract. HTML is not a page layout language; it's not
    supposed to be. You can sometimes fool a browser into giving you
    something, and that's what you're doing here with tables.

    > Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
    > tables to be the same size?


    Depends what you mean by small. Since your tables are all
    pixel-measured (very bad), you will need to "fix" a lot of little
    things. Depending on exactly what you want, there may be only a few of
    these little things that need to be fixed to satisfy you, but I can't
    tell offhand which ones they are. But the basic problem is pixel-measuring.

    > And I need them to stay the
    > same size relative to each other.


    That is not possible in HTML. It's also not desirable, since sometimes
    a cell will have more than it otherwise could hold (either because
    there's more data, or the user's font size is bigger than you
    anticipated... unless you are going to reach out through the monitor and
    give people eye surgery, you need to accept that.

    The basic problem is use of tables for layout. Fixing that is a big
    deal. If you don't want to fix that, then the secondary problem is,
    within the tables, using pixel measurements. There are a lot of them,
    you'll need to find out which ones are controlling the sizes you want to
    adjust.

    Are you familiar with the HTML of tables?

    Jose
    --
    Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
    for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
     
    Jose, Mar 15, 2006
    #4
  5. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Jose wrote:

    > Are you familiar with the HTML of tables?


    I'm getting familiar with it very fast.

    OK, so I can't easily make that table on the left smaller. Pixels is
    the measure and this is very bad. Can you at least tell me why when I
    decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller?
    Particularly since there is not a lot of data in the table.

    For the table on its right, I decreased that size and that table did
    decrease.

    Brian
     
    Brian, Mar 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Brian

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    "Brian" <> wrote:

    > Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
    > tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
    > need them to stay the same size relative to each other.


    This is most unclear. You have all sorts of boxes. What do you
    want lined up with what? Explain clearly. Sizes of boxes have
    more than one dimension, which boxes? Which dimensions? What
    where? Speak!

    If you want a box on the left to be the same height as a box to
    your right, then this is exactly what a table with cells in the
    same row does best. Your job is to make sure they are in the same
    table and same row and nothing fancy is added to disturb this
    like colspans as you go down.

    But really, you either need to learn about tables or give it to
    someone who can redo the code (even in tables, yes) to get the
    look you want.

    Frankly, want some good advice? Leave it as it is, it is a smelly
    dog on the inside, it is invalid markup and worse, don't disturb
    it. It does not smell too bad on the outside. It is functional
    enough. Wait till you have more time.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 16, 2006
    #6
  7. dorayme wrote:

    > In article
    > <>,
    > "Brian" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Is there a way to make a small change to the existing html to get the
    >>tables to be the same size? Right now that's all I want to do. And I
    >>need them to stay the same size relative to each other.

    >
    >
    > This is most unclear. You have all sorts of boxes. What do you
    > want lined up with what? Explain clearly. Sizes of boxes have
    > more than one dimension, which boxes? Which dimensions? What
    > where? Speak!
    >
    > If you want a box on the left to be the same height as a box to
    > your right, then this is exactly what a table with cells in the
    > same row does best. Your job is to make sure they are in the same
    > table and same row and nothing fancy is added to disturb this
    > like colspans as you go down.
    >
    > But really, you either need to learn about tables or give it to
    > someone who can redo the code (even in tables, yes) to get the
    > look you want.
    >
    > Frankly, want some good advice? Leave it as it is, it is a smelly
    > dog on the inside, it is invalid markup and worse, don't disturb
    > it. It does not smell too bad on the outside. It is functional
    > enough. Wait till you have more time.
    >

    Agree! Because the markup (HTML) is chock full of old deprecated
    attributes (the WIDTH, HEIGHT,...) and element (FONT, CENTER, ...) to
    make small changes universally will take a lot of work. For the effort
    that much effort it would be easier, quicker, and most likely less
    expensive to redo correctly with the markup (HTML) and presentation
    (CSS) separate than to hack with what you have. Once redone if you ever
    wanted to change your site again in the manner your are attempting right
    now the change could be as easily as changing a few lines in s CSS
    stylesheet and the *whole* site would change *without* having to redo
    all the pages are you are now faced with. That is the beauty of
    seperating the markup and presentation, maintainability!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Brian

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Brian quothed:

    > I have inherited a web site and am trying to make minor changes in
    > appearance without having to overhaul the whole thing. I am having a
    > specific issue with a table height - no matter how small I make it, it
    > doesn't shrink past a certain size. (But making it larger will in fact
    > make it larger.)
    >
    > First, here's the URL:
    > http://www.amphenolpcd.com/avionic_pages/m81714_2.htm
    >
    > for the table to the left headed "MATERIALS" I am trying make that the
    > same size as the table to it's right. If I increase the height 351 the
    > table grows, but if I decrease it it stays the same size.


    In addition and before that is "<table height=705..." which (with the
    inner cells) is keeping it from shrinking.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Brian

    Brian Guest

    Neredbojias,

    YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
    about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
    question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
    when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
    and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!

    I have made changes to the table height setting in two places and now
    it appears much better than before I started. Not great, but
    acceptable.

    Thanks again.
    Brian
     
    Brian, Mar 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Brian wrote:
    > Neredbojias,
    >
    > YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
    > about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
    > question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
    > when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
    > and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!


    Maybe he had nothing better to do, the point was because the styling,
    (the setting of sizes and fonts), are pervasive throughout the markup
    that the controlling value could have been anywhere, or worse everywhere
    as the interaction of all the set values together may have needed to be
    changed for the desired result.

    >
    > I have made changes to the table height setting in two places and now
    > it appears much better than before I started. Not great, but
    > acceptable.


    So never said how many pages need to be updated. If is a sizable amount,
    just remember what you need to change may not be in the same place.
    Happy hunting!


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Mar 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Brian

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Brian quothed:

    > Neredbojias,
    >
    > YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
    > about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
    > question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
    > when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
    > and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!


    Well thanks but understand that I gave you a band-aid and others were
    offering a cure.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Mar 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Brian

    Brian Guest

    >Well thanks but understand that I gave you a band-aid and others were
    >offering a cure.


    all I asked for was a band-aid. it's just a scratch.

    thanks.

    Brian
     
    Brian, Mar 16, 2006
    #12
  13. Brian

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Neredbojias <> wrote:

    > With neither quill nor qualm, Brian quothed:
    >
    > > Neredbojias,
    > >
    > > YOU gave the correct answer!! While others were providing feedback
    > > about how bad the code is, you took the time to understand the last
    > > question I asked (which was very specific "Can you at least tell me why
    > > when I decrease the height from 351 it does not appear any smaller? ")
    > > and provide me with an answer. THANK YOU!!!

    >
    > Well thanks but understand that I gave you a band-aid and others were
    > offering a cure.


    Boji, you can be as humble and modest as you like, you will still
    be meeting Officer Bud White and you must by now know this....

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 16, 2006
    #13
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