career choice to Java or .NET

L

Leo

Dear All,

I don't have industry Java programming experiences. I love Java. But it
seems these days almost all of Java developer positions require industry
level programming expriences(or knowledge).

My impression is .NET job market is very good at DC metropolitan area.
It seems many .NET openings can accept applicants just with school level
knowledge. So instead to spending huge amount of time and effort to
learn JBoss, Structs, EJB etc and to apply for Java developer jobs, it
may take me several weeks to learn C#, ASP.NET, etc., then I may qualify
for a number of web application jobs. My guess is small companies may
intuitively use Microsoft Windows and its related techonolgies .NET etc.
Many these small companies are hiring now. Only relatively big companies
use linux and Java. Their job opening requirements may be more strict.

My friend is a .NET person. He has many job offers and he strongly asks
me to learn .NET. He says that it is very easy to pick up.

I don't know which way I should go. I use linux everyday for my
scientific work. And I like Java. But for getting a job, if it is true
that .NET job is so easy to get, I might switch to Microsoft Windows and
learn .NET technology.

Thank you very much for your advices.
 
T

tony

Leo said:
Dear All,

I don't have industry Java programming experiences. I love Java. But it
seems these days almost all of Java developer positions require industry
level programming expriences(or knowledge).

My impression is .NET job market is very good at DC metropolitan area.
It seems many .NET openings can accept applicants just with school level
knowledge. So instead to spending huge amount of time and effort to
learn JBoss, Structs, EJB etc and to apply for Java developer jobs, it
may take me several weeks to learn C#, ASP.NET, etc., then I may qualify
for a number of web application jobs. My guess is small companies may
intuitively use Microsoft Windows and its related techonolgies .NET etc.
Many these small companies are hiring now. Only relatively big companies
use linux and Java. Their job opening requirements may be more strict.

My friend is a .NET person. He has many job offers and he strongly asks
me to learn .NET. He says that it is very easy to pick up.

I don't know which way I should go. I use linux everyday for my
scientific work. And I like Java. But for getting a job, if it is true
that .NET job is so easy to get, I might switch to Microsoft Windows and
learn .NET technology.

Thank you very much for your advices.

there are more small company who use php then asp
and there a more job for java then .net
java is not so difficult to learn, C# is very similar to java

i see more compagny who use jsp then .net, why? surely because jsp is more
mature

don't forget... if a job to need experience.... any guy can take you job
easily if he has experience.....
 
H

hussainak

well if u are going for .net...then it ll be easy for u to go with
C#....C# is a bit advanced version of java but lacks many features than
java....

yea...tony is right there are abundant of php jobs but very few php
programmers....

if u have done java with adv. java why dont u go for Sun
Certification....u ll have to struggle for sometime to have a good job
but eventually u ll land in somewhere....Cheers
 
J

John Bailo

Althought java has been around for 10 years, and c# for 5, they are both
new and growing technologies.

They both offer equal opportunities for success and growth.

Right now many of us keep a foot in both camps, waiting to see if there
will be a "winner".

The good news is, it's a buyer's market. Almost all the basics you
learn from c# can be mapped, somewhat, to java and vice versa.

IDES are coming down. Platforms are coming down.

I can use Eclipse for java and #develop for c# and not pay a dime.

I can run on Windows, OSX or Linux.

While there may be a big/small divions for java/c# that will be rapidly
erased as Eclipse brings on its WST (Web Standard Tools) and lets me
build smart clients, and web services easily with a great IDE.
 
T

Twisted

Ever heard the phrase "my way or the highway?" The Newspeek equivalent
is "the Microsoft way or the airfare to India where everything else is
being outsourced". It is awkward and doesn't rhyme, which is exemplary
of how Microsoft, in addition to being evil, just plain can't get
anything right -- even its own antitrust defense exhibits. (Though one
or two of the goons presumably knew it didn't matter because of the
huge wad passed under the judge's bench, or was it the huge jar of
sleeping pills slipped into the vending machine? The guy snoozed all
the way through the trial as I remember it...likewise, the goons at the
top know it doesn't matter if longhorn doesn't ship until doomsday,
doesn't work, crashes more often than win3.11, doesn't keep out the
stupidest and most naive attempt at hacking or virus-writing, or, for
that matter, doesn't compile, because everyone will be forced to buy a
copy with their next hardware upgrade even if the only thing it's good
for is demonstrating that the HDD has enough space on it to store a big
Linux distro and a good-sized swap partition too.)
 
R

Roedy Green

longhorn doesn't ship until doomsday

XP at the local government runs even slower than W98 and crashes more
often. It is time to stop farting around inventing new fancy features
and start over and the basics right so that machines don't crash
simply because some application did not play perfectly by the rules.

Connecting to the Internet is a bit like moving from rural community
to Harlem. You MUST get street smart very quickly.

Everything needs an overhaul with that key fact in mind.
 
T

Twisted

XP at the local government runs even slower than W98 and crashes more
often. It is time to stop farting around inventing new fancy features
and start over and the basics right so that machines don't crash
simply because some application did not play perfectly by the rules.

No, it is not. Reinventing the wheel is pointless. It is time to stop
farting around and get a bunch of Linux weenies and a bunch of Nielsen
Norman Group usability geeks crammed together into an oversized sardine
can (may require additional components not supplied, including, but not
limited to, the guns you'll need to accomplish this task and a way to
lock the tin from the outside after). With some luck, maybe a stable OS
with a real user interface will come out if you wait a few years and
then open the tin again.

We already have interfaces and data formats and common app suites in
portable languages like C on the one hand, and a kernel that actually
works on the other. The odd thing is nobody ever seems to really get
around to combining them in one box.
Connecting to the Internet is a bit like moving from rural community
to Harlem. You MUST get street smart very quickly.

What kind of environment do your production systems that don't use the
network run in? A cleanroom? I'd say "Connecting to the Internet is a
bit like moving from Harlem to Baghdad. ONE fully automatic assault
rifle is just not enough anymore -- please pass the RPG launcher..." :)
 
J

James McGill

On Linux, yes, using mono:

http://go-mono.com

BTW -- mono also supports java!

(and there's an OSX version as well)

_Production_ systems on mono? What sort?

Want to know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see someone seriously
deploy Mono for a production .NET system *under Windows*, in
*preference* to Microsoft .NET. That would be a real coming-of-age
event for the open source world.
 
T

trippy

Twisted took the hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh
wow"...
Ever heard the phrase "my way or the highway?" The Newspeek equivalent
is "the Microsoft way or the airfare to India where everything else is
being outsourced". It is awkward and doesn't rhyme, which is exemplary
of how Microsoft, in addition to being evil, just plain can't get
anything right -- even its own antitrust defense exhibits. (Though one
or two of the goons presumably knew it didn't matter because of the
huge wad passed under the judge's bench, or was it the huge jar of
sleeping pills slipped into the vending machine?

Actually, they stalled and weaseled when it came time to put the head on
the chopping block. And the government pretty just said "Well, okay. You
can slide."

IIRC, the judge actually hit them hard, then it all broke down when it
came time to actually assess the penalties through some kind of
arbitration.
The guy snoozed all
the way through the trial as I remember it...likewise, the goons at the
top know it doesn't matter if longhorn doesn't ship until doomsday,
doesn't work, crashes more often than win3.11, doesn't keep out the
stupidest and most naive attempt at hacking or virus-writing, or, for
that matter, doesn't compile, because everyone will be forced to buy a
copy with their next hardware upgrade even if the only thing it's good
for is demonstrating that the HDD has enough space on it to store a big
Linux distro and a good-sized swap partition too.)

--
trippy
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM

NP: "Doughnut Song" -- Tori Amos

"Now, technology's getting better all the time and that's fine,
but most of the time all you need is a stick of gum, a pocketknife,
and a smile."

-- Robert Redford "Spy Game"
 
A

aerotops

Hi,
You are right in one respect. .Net is definitely faster to pick up and
go. In your situation, if you are getting desperate, go ahead and do
what works for you.
I myself am a java developer and I would not touch .Net. I would be
happy to help you in case you are having some specific problems.
Java is vast. That's a given. However, noone, expectes you to know it
all. If you are going to stick to Java, I suggest you know the Java
language very well, maybe even write the Sun certification. This point
cannot be stressed enough. Good knowledge of Java is extremely
important. You can get by with an acceptable knowledge of the
frameworks. If you are good in Java, then a common stack that you could
aim for is: Servlets, JSP, Struts. Good news, this stuff can be learnt
in about a week. Well, not learnt inside out, but you could be
functional and ready to rock in about a week.

All these technologies are pretty extensive themselves, but in the
industry, we only use a subset of what is available and that subset is
pretty standard too. My drift is, if you learn the standard
operations/patterns etc., that should do it.
As for EJB's, I would not do them unless my job has a specific
requirement for them. Just get some knowledge of what they are and how
they work, but don't go too deep.
 
J

James McGill

IIRC, the judge actually hit them hard, then it all broke down when
it
came time to actually assess the penalties through some kind of
arbitration.

You might also recall that the same period of time saw a major, sudden
transition from a government that was generally willing to hold
corporations accountable for their actions, to a quite different
government that is strongly aligned with the interests of big business
and has no such motivations.
 
E

Eric Sosman

Leo wrote On 03/01/06 04:38,:
Dear All,

I don't have industry Java programming experiences. I love Java. But it
seems these days almost all of Java developer positions require industry
level programming expriences(or knowledge). [...]

Others have provided information about Java vs. .NET,
and I won't attempt to amplify it. However, there's one
question I haven't seen raised: In what sense is it a
"career choice" to decide to learn either, or both? It's
like a carpenter making a "career choice" between a hammer
and a nail gun.

Never forget that we're in a fashion-driven industry.
You can make a career of fashion, but you can't make a
career of *a* fashion.
 
S

Steve Sobol

aerotops said:
Hi,
You are right in one respect. .Net is definitely faster to pick up and
go. In your situation, if you are getting desperate, go ahead and do
what works for you.
I myself am a java developer and I would not touch .Net.

I installed VS .NET and am glad I did since $DAYJOB is moving towards the
..NET platform.

It's amazing how many similarities .NET shares with Java. I'm sure
Mickeysoft got a lot of ideas from Sun's Java team.
 
S

Steve Sobol

aerotops said:
Hi,
You are right in one respect. .Net is definitely faster to pick up and
go. In your situation, if you are getting desperate, go ahead and do
what works for you.

Oh, and by the way, I mentioned that I'm getting up to speed on .NET. That
doesn't mean I'm going to stop using Java. Indeed, I will use both as the
need arises.
 
T

Twisted

If it takes six years to become proficient with the hammer, and eight
including one of formal (i.e., expensive) schooling for the nailgun,
then it is a "career choice". And for various reasons, it's also a
"political choice" whether to touch .NET with a ten-foot pole or not...
 
T

Twisted

Actually there's nothing new about .NET except the name. Microsoft took
Java and mutated it. (For several reasons. One of the major purposes,
of course, was the fix the somewhat problematic Java security model; to
be precise, the "Java has a security model" problem, which was utterly
at odds with anything ever to come out of Redmond. Another, of course,
was to make it weirdly incompatible and proprietary; standard
procedure, according to the Halloween Documents. "Embrace and extend";
the competition gets the bear-hug of death from an actual bear, the
800-lb variety that sleeps where it wants to and steps on competitors,
judges, juries, consumers, and its own clients and suppliers left and
right.) They were sued blue by Sun for violating various trademarks and
polluting Java, and for some hard to fathom reason, this actually
mattered (unlike the antitrust rulings), so they kept their polluted
Java and mutated it even more but had to include mutating the name. Now
we have this .NET/C# thing, which won't interoperate with anything
(including, I suspect, itself) and has evolved teeth and a hard scaly
exterior and will soon arise from the deeps and attempt to destroy
Tokyo.
 
E

Eric Sosman

Twisted wrote On 03/03/06 05:33,:
If it takes six years to become proficient with the hammer, and eight
including one of formal (i.e., expensive) schooling for the nailgun,
then it is a "career choice". And for various reasons, it's also a
"political choice" whether to touch .NET with a ten-foot pole or not...

(I really wish you'd form the habit of quoting some
context when you reply to a Usenet message. Your stuff
is interesting -- not that I agree with all of it, but
it's certainly worh reading -- but when it's just floating
around unconnected to anything else, it loses a lot of its
value. Usenet groups are for discussions, not for isolated
bons mots.)

(To bring others up to speed: I suggested that it's
not a "career choice" to decide to use one language or
framework vs. another, because in a "career" you will
pick up and discard many different languages as fashions
come and go. I likened the situation to a carpenter
making a "career choice" between the hammer and the
nail gun, and that's where Twisted spoke up.)

As far as I can tell, it takes more than forty years
to become proficient with the "hammers" and "nail guns"
of the programming craft. That's how long I've been using
them, and I still think I have more to learn, more skills
to gain. My "career choice" was not to use Java -- or C,
or Lisp, or PL/I, or XPL, or Snobol, or FORTRAN IV, or
FORTRAN II, or any of umpteen different assemblers --
my career choice was to go into a line of work where I
would use all of them, and then abandon all of them as
newer tools (some actually better, some merely more
politically convenient) come along.

If you decide to make a "career" out of a tool rather
than out of a trade, you will find that a fast-moving
industry will leave you behind. If you think either
Java or .NET will sustain you for an entire career, I
predict you'll eventually have a career asking "You
want fries with that?"
 

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